So as some of us should know HTC Legend can now be Hboot unlocked and can gain S-off. Now, a question for some of you phone nerds out there, what benefits does having S-off actually give you, other than running adblocking applications. I've been thinking about unlocking my bootloader to get S-off but heard that it is an irreversible method, so I need to make sure if it is worth it or not.
-cheers
That's a good question, what can one do with on S-off legend that you can't do with the new unlocked bootloader. Except return under warranty.
BTW HTC knows we unlocked our phone, that is why we need to provide a device token.
Sent from my HTC Legend using XDA App
If I know correct, S-OFFing is a unlocking procedure that gives access to /radio and simlock.
So, unlocked bootloader gives every access except /radio and simlock. To get these you'd have to S-OFF, which is impossible on 1.02.0000 (?)
He actually wants to know the benefits of unlocking his bootloader through the HTC-way.
Benefits include being able to flash a recovery (No more fakeflash recovery booting needed)
And alter animations/host file/everything else that lives in /system/. Apps like metamorph need this. All in all it's a pretty easy procedure, and there's little reason not to do it, especially if your warranty has expired.
pepijn499 said:
He actually wants to know the benefits of unlocking his bootloader through the HTC-way.
Benefits include being able to flash a recovery (No more fakeflash recovery booting needed)
And alter animations/host file/everything else that lives in /system/. Apps like metamorph need this. All in all it's a pretty easy procedure, and there's little reason not to do it, especially if your warranty has expired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I won't be doing it anytime sooner since my 2 year contract isn't even halfway yet. Cheers for the input.
Sent from my Legend using xda premium
Related
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Has this been explained ad nauseam and I'm late to the party?
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not the best to explain it... But, lets give it a go.
A locked bootloader prevents the loading of custom ROMS. If we had that ability, we could bake in root. You can still root with a locked bootloader, but it then becomes an issue of finding an exploit to gain root.
As for a legitimate reason... It's our phone, and we should have the right to do what we will with it. Yes, dev is another legitimate reason.. but ultimately it's about freedom to use own devices as we want.
tstack77 said:
In regards to obtaining root, where does the unlocking of the bootloader come into play? I'm assuming that with a locked bootloader we will not be able to ever root our devices without some leak from HTC. But with the bootloader unlocked we still need to find an exploit in order to get root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As stated above, I believe that we can technically root our phones even with a locked bootloader. The problem with it being locked is that we cannot use a custom recovery to flash custom roms etc. In order for root to work properly we also need Superuser permission, and being locked or S-ON blocks us from doing so. Basically, a locked bootloader takes away from the full benefits of rooting in the first place.
tstack77 said:
What I don't fully understand is why HTC would unlock the bootloader for us. Is there some sort of legitimate/developmental reason, beyond obtaining root, for us to demand that they unlock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reply above explains this for the most part. But why would they or should they unlock the bootloader? They stated in a press release that all of their phones would have an unlocked bootloader. Ofcourse, this was shortly before the Evo 3D launched so they were producing the phones for quite some time before they made this decision or as many see it as a promise. So really, they should unlock in order to prevent themselves from losing many loyal customers but also to avoid class action lawsuits for not following through with something people would see as false advertisement. (Class action lawsuits are a whole different story, but we won't go into that)
tstack77 said:
I guess the real question is, is locking the bootloader the ultimate block of root, and HTC is capitulating because they only want to make discovering a root exploit difficult, but not impossible, to appease the carriers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it is not the ultimate block of root but it will take a lot longer for us to obtain root. I am confident that our dev's will find a way eventually to unlock the damn thing, especially if HTC takes forever to unlock it. Think about it... that would be a huge slap in the face to HTC if we obtain root before they give us the update to unlock the bootloader. I think that a big factor in this war is in fact carriers pressuring them to keep the phone locked down because of the things that we can do with root. Sprint want's us to pay for their tethering services, so why would they want us to be able to do it for free with root.
Hope this helps you understand things a little bit better. I think I covered my bases and I am not entirely sure that it is all correct, but to my understanding this is how things work.
Thank you. That does explain the issue quite well . It's not that we cannot get root, but that we cannot write our own recovery image.
I still see it as them finally figuring out a way to block the community, but I am truly amazed that we have become such a power that we can sway HTC to "allow" all our fun.
I would not even think of buying the E3d if we couldn't apply custom roms. Everyone here ROCKS
I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
el_ochito said:
I'm 99.9% sold on the Amaze, I will probably be ordering this weekend.
One niggling doubt is the s-off issue. I see that it hasn't been achieved yet, though you can unlock the bootloader via the HTC.com dev code, and that allows perma-rooting and Custom Roms to be installed.
My questions are:
What would S-off achieve? Would there be more impressive roms that use the space and/or resources from /system or somewhere else that can't be touched without S-off? Is a CM 9 possible for the Amaze without S-off? In the CM forums, the "last" word so far is that it hasn't been included on the official list because "it doesn't even have S-off yet".
Is there a difference warranty-wise? I understand the _possible_ implication of asking HTC for the code, they have you in some database that says you unlocked the bootloader. But as for the device itself, is one undoable and the other not?
I understand that flashing kernels would be harder without s-off because it would have to be done via adb, I think I understood. This is no big deal in itself.
Finally: if you unlock the bootloader via the HTC code, and weeks or months down the road an exploit is found to gain S-Off, are you hosed because you used the code and didn't wait?
I'd like to know so I can make my decision before getting the phone. If it's very disadvantageous to use the code rather than wait for S-off, for one reason or another, then I'd have to decide if I can live with only temp-rooting the device.
I am not going to use it on T-Mobile, I'm in Venezuela and will use it with my carrier here, so the unnecessary bloat will be even more of an annoyance, because on top of it sucking, it won't even work; so it would be important for me to at least root to get rid of it.
I'm sorry if my questions are too expansive, I picked up bits and pieces of information in other posts, but none of them answered these questions clearly. Thank you very much to all those who can help me answer them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
el_ochito said:
Thanks a lot for your response, Binary. I see you have an Amaze and have indeed unlocked its bootloader, so I guess the real question would be: when and if s-off is achieved, will you be able to do it even though you've already unlocked the bootloader with the .bin file?
Warranty would be terribly hard for me to take advantage of anyways after the initial check. If I don't RMA the unit, then I'm pretty much gambling on the fact that it will work well no matter what, since sending it back to the US from Venezuela would be a major PITA, so I don't really care much about voiding it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no reason that having an unlocked bootloader will interfere with being able to obtain s-off in the future because we can always relock the bootloader when (or if) it comes down to it.
Binary100100 said:
I don't know where to start with all of your questions but I will do my best.
The difference between S-OFF and Unlocked bootloader is that with S-OFF you can flash anything including a radio and supposedly it would give us the ability to update the kernel by recovery. With an unlocked bootloader we cannot update the radio or kernel but can pretty much change everything else. An unlocked bootloader is required to root your device and remove all the bloat that you don't like. You can temp root the device to remove that bloatware however they will re-appear after a reboot. It has been under some debate if in fact using the unlock_code.bin file provided by htcdev is going to void your warranty if your device would require servicing. If it's vital to know that information then call HTC to inquire before unlocking.
Regarding CM9, it is possible but slightly inconvenient since CM9 would almost certainly require a different kernel and since we cannot flash kernels by recovery it would have to be done in a very certain order. Is it currently in the works? To my understanding, yes! Any idea when you can see it as a download here in the forums? Not at this time. Check back daily because things change frequently!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your words helped me a lot. I was thinking about the diff between s-on/off and lock.unlock bootloader for long. Thanks so much
Is it possible to get temp root only in such a way it doesn't mark the bootloader as TAMPERED?
For what it's worth, there is only a handful of reasons I would ever need root access and quite honestly I don't see the need to be rooted 100% of the time.
However, I don't feel the need to have to unlock the entire bootloader from HTC Dev just to install an APK or two.
Thanks for any pointers!
ttmcmurry said:
Is it possible to get temp root only in such a way it doesn't mark the bootloader as TAMPERED?
For what it's worth, there is only a handful of reasons I would ever need root access and quite honestly I don't see the need to be rooted 100% of the time.
However, I don't feel the need to have to unlock the entire bootloader from HTC Dev just to install an APK or two.
Thanks for any pointers!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You only need to unlock the bootloader if you want to flash custom roms and such. If you just want root access for apps just use zedomax's root and dont unlock the bootloader. You only get the tampered messages if you unlock the bootloader.
njfoses said:
You only need to unlock the bootloader if you want to flash custom roms and such. If you just want root access for apps just use zedomax's root and dont unlock the bootloader. You only get the tampered messages if you unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually that's wrong. They're two different things. If you root, it'll show tampered, whether unlocked or not. Locking or unlocking will not effect tampered status. Any root will show tampered. It goes away if you use RUU.
To answer the question asked, no. At the current time it is not possible to root without tampered bootloader
Sent from my EVO using XDA
chickut123 said:
Actually that's wrong. They're two different things. If you root, it'll show tampered, whether unlocked or not. Locking or unlocking will not effect tampered status. Any root will show tampered. It goes away if you use RUU.
To answer the question asked, no. At the current time it is not possible to root without tampered bootloader
Sent from my EVO using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea i didnt word it very well. I assumed the reason the op was asking is so he could get back completely to stock if need be. If he only roots and then runs the ruu he would be back to stock. Thanks for clearing it up.
Thanks for the info - I didn't understand the mechanism that triggers the bootloader to show tampered.
Ultimately, I was looking into determining whether or not ICS encrypted the mail (not gmail) database, regardless of the device itself being encrypted or not.
Is there? i cant find any solution and i tried several tools.
Or way to unlock after OTA to ics without getting back to gingerbread and using revolutionary. And not the official way..
thx
jojkos said:
Is there? i cant find any solution and i tried several tools.
Or way to unlock after OTA to ics without getting back to gingerbread and using revolutionary. And not the official way..
thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you GSM or CDMA?
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but if your phone is the CDMA model and you've never unlocked your bootloader you can get S-OFF and then root without unlocking the bootloader using the Revolutionary method in closeone's thread in the stickies of the CDMA development forum. Some people have even gotten it to work with the Sprint ICS (2.89.651.2) build installed, but it requires "bricking" the phone twice.
OTOH, the JuopunutBear S-OFF method resets the bootloader status from "unlocked" to "locked" so there is no indication on the phone that you ever did the HTC unlock, and that works for both GSM and CDMA.
It sounds like you've already done some homework so you must have a specific reason for wanting to do it another way?
ramjet73
ramjet73 said:
Are you GSM or CDMA?
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but if your phone is the CDMA model and you've never unlocked your bootloader you can get S-OFF and then root without unlocking the bootloader using the Revolutionary method in closeone's thread in the stickies of the CDMA development forum. Some people have even gotten it to work with the Sprint ICS (2.89.651.2) build installed, but it requires "bricking" the phone twice.
OTOH, the JuopunutBear S-OFF method resets the bootloader status from "unlocked" to "locked" so there is no indication on the phone that you ever did the HTC unlock, and that works for both GSM and CDMA.
It sounds like you've already done some homework so you must have a specific reason for wanting to do it another way?
ramjet73
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i forgot to mention, my bad. I have GSM. I didnt want to loose warranty because of the official method, but if you say that there is a way to revert it (i thought they would keep record of me unlocking phone but i dont really know), then it would be ok to unlock it that way. Also i wanted to know if ther is easy and fast way to make root/temp root so i could only do a backup.
jojkos said:
i forgot to mention, my bad. I have GSM. I didnt want to loose warranty because of the official method, but if you say that there is a way to revert it (i thought they would keep record of me unlocking phone but i dont really know), then it would be ok to unlock it that way. Also i wanted to know if ther is easy and fast way to make root/temp root so i could only do a backup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you htcdev unlock, HTC will know that you requested a token, but not whether you actually unlocked or not. I'm not sure how they handle that for the purpose of warranty claims, but maybe someone else here has experience with that.
Regarding temp root, it's possible, but not on the the ICS releases since HTC has patched the vulnerablility used for the "tacoroot" method. I've also heard that the phone is very unstable while temp rooted and sometime won't boot. You might be better off using a tool like MyBackup Pro that doesn't require root and has a 30 day trial with full functionality.
ramjet73
ramjet73 said:
If you htcdev unlock, HTC will know that you requested a token, but not whether you actually unlocked or not. I'm not sure how they handle that for the purpose of warranty claims, but maybe someone else here has experience with that.
Regarding temp root, it's possible, but not on the the ICS releases since HTC has patched the vulnerablility used for the "tacoroot" method. I've also heard that the phone is very unstable while temp rooted and sometime won't boot. You might be better off using a tool like MyBackup Pro that doesn't require root and has a 30 day trial with full functionality.
ramjet73
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well thank you very much for all your help i think ill try htcdev unlock method
I know that i can pay to sim unlock our desire 610 but surely s-off has been achieved so we can change our CID to sim unlock our device for free??
zubairali00 said:
I know that i can pay to sim unlock our desire 610 but surely s-off has been achieved so we can change our CID to sim unlock our device for free??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We....don't have s-off
ninjasinabag said:
We....don't have s-off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And no one is working on it?
zubairali00 said:
And no one is working on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the same problem , i buy htc desire 610 vodafone uk , with lock, i root the phone, erase all, install recovery - rom AT&T ,
but only way is buy unlock code service... and pay 26 $ approx :crying:
zubairali00 said:
And no one is working on it?[/QUOTE
There is/was someone in the general board who received and is selling s-off 610s. (No actualperson bought from his sale, so I don't know if he was lying or if it was an error)
ClearD is working on a Rom, so he's probably the only person currently with an idea of how to go about it. Like I said though, he's been working pretty hard on the Rom so he may be reticent to start a new project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phew. I appreciate the thought, but that is way beyond my level of experience. However, I do have information of someone working on an s-off for our device. It's probably going to be a while until it's finalized, but it will work on a wide range of devices, similar to Sunshine. It will also be a paid app, like Sunshine. But, I'd pay for s-off myself. It's important. Lol
ClearD said:
Phew. I appreciate the thought, but that is way beyond my level of experience. However, I do have information of someone working on an s-off for our device. It's probably going to be a while until it's finalized, but it will work on a wide range of devices, similar to Sunshine. It will also be a paid app, like Sunshine. But, I'd pay for s-off myself. It's important. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you elaborate a little on that? I know s-off is important but if the bootloader is unlocked and we have a kernel doesn't that mean we can flash unsigned zips already?
Or is it more about using it on other carriers? I have no intention but if I gave this phone to someone, could they take it to say verizon and activate it?
I'm just confused. I guess I don't know the difference between s-off an unlocked bootloader for practical reasons.
Unlocked bootloader lets us flash system, boot, and recovery partitions. That's about it. We can't change the Cid or splash screen or radio image, as those are still security protected. Like the warning screen from the early root method? It's the splash screen. We can remove that once we get s-off. Basically s-off lets you change/flash anything.
Is anyone try "oneclick root" option from MobileGo PC Suite?
On Youtube is posted video(animated presentation)how to root Desire 610 with MobileGo.
On Wondreshare Mobilego Forum is even link to additional root tool: "CC Root" http : //goo.gl/IsyzC
Some with D610 as backup phone maybe wish try, no word about S-OFF, reverse option (from root) is not supported.
P.S.
"oneclick root" option is available in free version of app.
We've already got a root tool... A very simple root tool. That I made. It doesn't s-off.
ClearD said:
We've already got a root tool... A very simple root tool. That I made. It doesn't s-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is not bad thing knowing if exist more than one option how to root 610, true is that no any feedback about MobileGo root method on any htc phone.
I would prefer wish to hear from you an answer like: I could try...
Thx
We already have more than one root method. And they're simple. There in fact doesn't need to be more than one, because the bootloader can be unlocked and one is all there will ever need to be, because of this. It's as easy as flashing recovery and flashing root through recovery. That's it. My tool just automates that process. Why use something untested when we already have one that will always work, without fail?
Also this thread is about sim unlocking, not rooting. S-off is not root and we don't have s-off capabilities yet. Back on track.