It isn't like I'm driving the CPU hard to run out the battery faster, but I've noticed that when draining completely, the battery is always sightly warn to the touch. This isn't the case when I swap batteries before the phone dies. Could it be that when voltage drops, amperage increases?
Try here
Try looking at this guide
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=669497
Related
Hey,
Just thinking, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know both the tablet and the dock have a Lithium-ion battery
From my knowledge, to keep lithium ion batteries in the best state you have to keep them between 20% and 80%, and not under/over charge them. The dock kinda seems to contradict this, because its constantly overcharging the tablet. This is extremely bad for the battery and greatly reduces the life span and capacity. Think of it as a laptop that you have in the socket 24/7, if you do this for half a year, the battery wont last for more then 30 mins. This, in a way, is resulting in the same problem.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it, but isn't this a major design flaw? The dock should have some on/off charge switch.
It's not that simple. The Transformer, like every cell phone, laptop, and tablet using LiIon cells uses a charge controller chip that monitors charging current, pack voltage, pack temperature, discharge rate, and charge history to optimally control the power being fed to the battery from the charging input. The charge controller has a programmed hysteresis that keeps the battery from constantly charging (trickle charge) once it reaches its max capacity. Without a charge controller, the pack would eventually overheat and catch fire.
It is true that fully charged LiIon batteries will degrade in capacity over months to years. It's more damaging to the battery though to run it through a complete cycle (completely discharge). The best thing you can do for your battery without shelving the TF is to charge it every night to keep from unnecessarily running the battery down the next day.
In short, the Transformer can look after itself.
Also, this.
Thanks for your reply.
I might have used the wrong wording, I understand they have charge controllers to prevent the batteries from overcharging and exploding or catching fire. What I ment by overcharging was, charging it while the battery is already full, and undercharging - not charging it enough by letting it go into a deep discharge too often.
As stated in your link, "partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further"
The dock keeps pushing it to 100%, and keeps it at 100% - reducing its battery life. Also, because you can not disable the dock charge, assuming you are constantly want to use the keyboard which I do, it will go into a deep discharge, also reducing the battery life of the dock. As often said, the best state for LiIon batteries is between 40% and 80%, this is hard to archive for both the dock and tablet due to it constant charging the tablet to full.
In order to preserve the best battery life, you must un-dock the tablet around 90% - and charge the dock whenever it reaches below 40% or so. Meeting both these requirements, while wanting to use the dock constantly seems like a burden. Not doing this, will rapidly decrease the capacity from my understanding.
Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
I don't see why people worry so much about this. It takes a few years for there to be any noticeable loss in battery life on lithium ion batteries, and even longer for it to become a significant burden.
It took me five years of daily usage of my old Toshiba laptop to wear down the battery to about half its original capacity, and it's still usable with only 2.5 hours of battery life. If we assume similar rules would apply to the Transformer, after 4-5 years you could still achieve a maximum of 8 hours on a single charge. If anything, by that time you'd be more concerned about how sluggish the device feels when compared to the newest tech, especially when browsing the web.
Okay so every time you flash a ROM, people say you should calibrate your battery, that is fully charged it, let it drain, then recharge back to full to optimize battery life.
My question is, why the heck would that affect the actual battery consumption? Sure it makes sense that if it's not calibrated, it may incorrectly report the wrong % of battery left but how does that change how long the battery lasts. It would make sense that after a calibration, the phone would more accurately report the percentage of battery left but I don't understand how it changes the rate it at which battery juice is being consumed.
No one knows?
just a guess: could there be build in shut-offs when the % reaches a certain level? So if the % says 0, the phone shuts off even if there is more juice there?
Calibrating the battery doesn't affect battery life, period. Calibrating the battery can however affect the accuracy of any kind of battery percent monitoring apps you may have.
joehunni said:
Calibrating the battery doesn't affect battery life, period. Calibrating the battery can however affect the accuracy of any kind of battery percent monitoring apps you may have.
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That's what I thought too! It's just that, there's always so many people complaining about bad battery life and then other people telling them to calibrate the battery and they come back saying "oh yayyy, my battery lasts forever now!"
Doesn't make any sense
Just draining it and fully recharging it is NOT calibrating the battery. That is not the procedure to do a calibration.
It *can* lead to better life by recalibrating the full point and empty points. If the ROM isnt reading the battery life properly then it can look like you have much less battery than you do, or that it is draining much faster than it is.
By my understanding, because of the way modern phones are set up to display battery life, sometimes the meter will read differently from the actual battery life. Your meter might read 100%, but you really might only have 85% or 90% charge. Calibrating helps to bring these measurements back into parity, increasing the perceived battery life of your device by allowing you to use a full, accurately read charge.
One thing I do know, the bit about letting your battery run to empty and then recharging is outdated information. The batteries we use nowadays don't benefit from that kind of behavior.
Calibration is for the phone not the battery, the phone needs to adjust itself to the battery %, seems to fix itself for me over time, through reboots, etc seems to get really good battery life, placebo effect is in motion....
Shot from my sharp shooter in 3d
cleanrom2.9.5
Hi all,
I'm rooted, S-Off and on Honeycomb with the revolutionary method with CWM and all is working great and has been for over a month now.
I'm just worried regarding the battery. I've seen snippets of info that if the battery fully discharges, i'm screwed.
can anyone please confirm that it is either OK or NOT OK to let the battery run down on the Flyer?
thanks,
Yes, if Li-ion batteries are actually drained to zero voltage, they are useless. However, technically, there are safety measures both in the battery itself (safety circuit) and the device that protect the battery from complete discharge. The device will tell you that zero battery is left, and shutdown. So in most instances, you are protected.
HOWEVER, I have seen plenty of cases on Android devices (and older phones, such as Windows Mobile) where the safety measures don't always kick in properly. People will let there phone/device drain until it shuts off, then they can't get it recharged. In these cases, the voltage is still not actually zero. But if the voltage is below a certain threshold, it won't take a charge from the normal charger. Only way to bring these batteries back, is a special battery meter with a boost function. Or replace the battery. As most of us don't have access to such a meter (and might not help anyway, since the battery is not designed to be removable) you're pretty well screwed.
This doesn't happen often. But if it happens to you, yes you are screwed.
Another thing about full discharge cycles on a Li-ion battery, is that it will shorten the life of the battery in the long term.
Moral of the story, is don't drain the battery to zero intentionally or often. Some people do it to calibrate the battery meter. This is worthless, as the battery meter on phones and tablets are not accurate enough to justify running the battery until the device shuts down. Just drain to 10 or even 20%, recharge to full (leave it there a while) and repeat a couple times, if you want to calibrate the battery meter.
As for normal usage, avoid draining the battery until shutdown. Its fine if it happens accidentally once in a while, we've all done it. But don't let it happen frequently.
I'm running Liquid Smooth 3.2 with Imoseyon Lean 6.2.1 kernel. I also tried to activate the speed tweaks included (?) but it didn't work so I downloaded speed tweaks 7.1 from Imoseyon's website and flashed it.
This is my problem.. I understand that with this kernel USB fast charging works unless the battery temp gets too high, then it shuts off and I assume goes back to standard charging. I've been using the kernel for about six hours and the battery temp has been in the low to mid thirties mostly, so that's great.. But my voltage has gotten up slightly over 4200 a couple of times and that has driven the battery temp up, but not much. I use a battery monitor widget that sounds an alarm if the temp or voltage get outside of my defined ranges.
What I would like to know whether there is a way to keep the voltage in a safer range when the phone is fast charging? I think if the fast charge could be stopped when the voltage is above 4200 or below 3000 like it is when the battery temp gets too high would be a great feature, and it would ease my mind that the voltage won't spike to 4300 or 4400 and blow up while I'm sleeping at night (if I happen to not hear battery monitor alarm).
If that's just the way it is with the voltage spikes, does anyone maybe know of a kernel/rom combo that safely allows fast charging by keeping the battery temp and voltage in recommended ranges or by shutting fast charge off if the temp/voltage suddenly spike while on the charger?
Thanks for reading/considering my question.
I'm not 100% sure but isn't the reason fast changing works is because it bumps up he voltage. Wouldn't lowering it make it not charge as fast.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Not sure
I looked at my battery history and I think you're right. The voltage has spiked quickly and then steadily climbed past 4200, but the charge in that time frame is like 60+ percent so it's worth it I guess. Figure I'm hurting the battery, but for now it's worth it. I I may get an iphone 5 if the features are right.
I guess I'll just have to find a toggle so I can leave it on the charger at night and not have to worry about it catching fire. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know about how long a lithium battery can charge above 4200 or below 3000 before it blows up?
Also, this is my first phone with a 4.3 inch screen.. Do all big display phones suffer from terrible battery life? I keep my brightness down to about 20% indoors, but I generally keep 4g on because 3g tends to drop the signal and I play Pokerist a lot at work. Don't like getting kicked off and having to sign back in when I'm all in in a hand. I guess it also could be that the game is taxing the processor and in combination with 4g wrecking my battery life.. Mainly though, and on a custom rom without a fast usb charging feature, I couldn't play and charge at the same time, the phone would just barely stay at the percentage it was at. My last question is, does anyone know of a phone with a large display and 4g that doesn't drain the battery as quickly as Thunderbolt, or that at least charges fairly fast while using phone without having to flash a fast usb charging kernel?
edit: I can't find an app or widget that will allow me to toggle between normal charging and fast usb charging.. Anyone know of one for Thunderbolt?
Most of the new 4G phones with the 4.3 inch screen suffer from batter drain. The razr maxx is the best stock phone for battery right now but the phones just aren't built well. I think the newer phones are getting better so I would wait a little while longer and see what is coming out soon. The battery issue won't be a problem forever and neither will the crappy data drops.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
The spike in voltage and temperature is a NORMAL behavior of this type of battery and the charging technology it uses. As a Li-on battery discharges, it's voltage drops very little for it's corresponding level of charge (Very useful in small electronics that require excellent power consistency.). As the battery nears fully discharged, the voltage begins to drop sharply as does the resistance of the battery. Shortly after that, the internal temperature rises. You are now damaging your battery to further discharge it. You're phone won't let you do this. Likewise, it won't allow you to overcharge it. A Li-on battery is determined to be fully charged when the voltage output begins to rise sharply over the nominal charge rate. The internal resistance of the battery will rise sharply as well. The you'll notice temperature rise. Depending upon other conditions, a significant rise in cell temperature doesn't necessarily indicate a charged battery. If the resistance and voltage are consistent, the battery isn't fully charged but rather exhibiting the normal rise in temperature as resistance rises. You'd be pretty shocked how hot it really has to get before the phone will simply shut itself off and refuse to power up for half an hour or more to avoid actually damaging the battery due to thermal stress. Think hot, dark stone sitting in the hot sun all day long. And that cut-off, as far as I know, is below what the battery is actually rated for.
You're HTC device uses neither voltage, resistance, nor temperature independently to determine a charged or discharged state. That is calculated through compiled statistics based upon load, voltage output, resistance, and temperature. Li-on is a very well understood technology. The ONLY way to obtain the life and performance from these batteries that they do is to have fairly advanced charging and monitoring technology. It's really pretty hard to destroy a phone or it's battery strictly through heat generated by charging (assuming all parts meet spec.). In fact, it's hard to even if the phone is sitting on a heating vent or under the hot sunlight.
Unless you're device is some brutally overclocked, customized to the gills monster of a device, narrowly switching transistors at ridiculous speeds with precious few electrons to spare, you're pretty hard pressed to damage your battery or your phone. The stuff that manages the battery is beyond what kernels and ROMs do. You can definitely do some meaningful damage to a battery messing with charge characteristics, however catastrophic failure is practically impossible.
All, sorry for the semi repost, but I got no answers from the other battery threads.
Can other people post their battery voltage plots? See my voltage plot below. First off, I realized the HOX+ uses a 4.3Vmax (or 3.8Vnominal) battery vs. 4.2V (3.7V) on the HOX and most other phones. The higher voltage gets us more mAH and WH, but does pose some risk on reduced battery cycle life and stress to the Li-Po battery.
So my concern is the quick drop in battery voltage after full charging to 100%. You can see in the plot below the voltages reaches around 4295 mV, but quickly drops to 4250 mV while still on the charger. Maybe this to protect the battery? But I also noticed that once I unplug the charger, the voltage quickly drops below 4.2V within minutes.
So my questions is, is my built-in battery not up to snuff to handle 4.3V? One thing I've noticed is my phone goes from 100%>96% very quickly, usually within 10-20mins, even it's idle (Screen off) etc.
I'll like to see battery voltage plots from others to determine if my battery performance is an anomaly or not.
Also, one other note. My Battery Monitor Widget app reports 2040 mAh battery and not the 2100 mAh that is advertised. Like to see if other people are seeing this as well.