Related
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
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Click to collapse
Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
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I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
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Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
As far as I can tell, without any objective numbers comparing root performance, a lot of this rooting fad raves could just be subjective reported elation about being able to be different.
Granted, originally, the Gtab OS had some flaws. That's old news, get over it. How do the current roots compare with OTA version 3588? I'm somewhat shocked not one of the pack of geeks that have rooted their G tab hasn't backed up their raves with real numbers...
Granted, being rooted to the latest vegan might get access to the full Android market, and perhaps even future updates in Android... However, if I'm finding most of what I want at Amazon Android, is rooting worth the trouble until the roots and android versions stabilize? Show us the NUMBERS...!
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
Also, do any of these roots do OTA auto updates or do root updates require a download & re-root? Just asking...
Jesus christ if you can't do a simple search for benchmark tests then I highly suggest getting the ipad2. I hear that the ipad 2 reads your mind so out don't have to do any search. We've only had a kazillion threads on this.
Edit
This is not to mention all the YouTube vids on this people have posted.
Edit again.
Actually, here are a few.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1047098&highlight=benchmark+2011
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12984546&postcount=9
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12986416&postcount=10
Edit again.
I'm serious, I highly suggest the ipad 2 to everyone I talk to. Speaking as someone who repairs computers as a side job, I'm fully aware that most people want to be spoon fed everything, which is why the ipad 2 is the ideal device for most people. If people want to complain about nothing, let apple deal with them.
Thanks for the links.
However, as best as I can tell, they seem to verify that the OTA updated Gtablet is about the same speed as Vegan in the benchmarks when the CPU speeds are similar.
However, do the benchmarks used translate into much of relevance to speed of actually using the tablet to open programs, boot the tablet, download & open web pages. Stuff that people actually do with the tablet... Unless that's what the benchmarks are testing... But that info isn't provided in the links. Again -- weak...
The numbers and detail provided in these links deserve barely more than a C grade, if that... And what they provide seems to be at equal speeds, the current OTA updated gtab OS works fine... As long as you don't need the full Adroid market...
You Tube links? As best as I can tell, not one of them is an objective comparison with the OTA 3588 update gtab. They are just videos of vegan working... As far as real world numbers and comparisons -- Grade D-...
Where are the Grade A numbers? It's not that I don't believe the ROMs are not an improvement, it's just where are the numbers to support these raves?
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
You're not telling us what you want. You said you wanted numbers so I gave you a bunch. Then you say you don't want those numbers. So, I ask again. What do you want?
I'll be brutally honest on this one. Vegan isn't that fast. From all my tests, Calkulin+Clemsyn combo is by far the fastest custom rom+kernel for the gtab.
After trying out everything, I'm back to Calkulin+Clemsyn combo.
Would you like me to make a video of myself openning various programs and post it for you? What do you want?
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
You also have a misconception of what rooting is/does.
To become root in Linux/Android is to gain administrative privileges. In windows root would be called Administrator. Gaining root privileges gives you the ability to change system files and settings, NOTHING MORE. By itself it does nothing.
Now boys...
The fact is that if you need numbers, reports,testimonials or anything else to justify mucking around with the gtab thenyou probably should just get an iPad. Nothing to prove then -everyone "knows" its the best-no numbers needed! The gtab is for people that don't mind the hardware and software quirks as long as they have the freedom to mess around. Its not about the numbers -its about the experience.
[Q] Why should we ..?!
Droofus said:
I've been there done that with this subjective stuff long enough not to be swayed without real numbers...
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Click to collapse
Well, I am not sure anyone here is trying to sway you in one direction or the others.
Here is how things go in community forums like this one:
- People search for what they got in mind first.
- If they didn't find its either undoable or not that interesting for the community that no one bothered doing it.
- In both case those people are expected to either drop whatever they are wishing for or pursuit it on there own and then share their findings with the community.
In other words, why the heck am I supposed to go beyond whatever benchmarks readily available on the market to show YOU how good/bad are custom firmwares compared to stock ones when :
- custom firmwares are volatile and each couple of days there is a new rom or rom add on or a kernel released (am I supposed to maintain the stats for every single update released ? else how meaningful would be my outdated stats to you? when it represents a ROM that is no longer a candidate)
- the whole flash back and forth and in between roms is a 10~20 minutes process of YOUR time which would suffice to answer all your questions.
If you still need some usability tests (you can use your own stop watch to time through the videos) you might want to check here.
Best of luck,
Zaphod-Beeblebrox said:
I'm thinking you should drop that 'r' from your handle.
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I think this was the best answer.
The information you are demanding is indicating your ignorance. As was already stated rooting does nothing for performance. If you want numbers you can install each rom and test with each kernel setting whatever your heart desires. Its not likely anyone else even cares as most people only care about stability and a lack of lag
Droofus said:
So, if rooting the g tablet is the way to go, it surely must stand up to a few simple speed checks. Has anyone posted various root's numbers or have some to post?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rooting itself does nothing other than giving you root - the speed of your device before and after rooting is identical.
Now, if you want to talk about the speeds with or without an overclocked kernel, or with a custom Froyo vs custom Ginger vs stock rom, as others have said there are plenty of posts out there.
Mine lasted on the stock rom for exactly one boot after opening the box - so I could copy on the bits to begin the rooting/custom rom flashing goodness.
cu_ninja said:
What exactly are you looking for? There are no hard numbers when it comes to real world use, just your user experience versus mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
If I go to a notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards, the various card performances in various games are reviewed. The reviews are very professionally and objectively done with detail. Clicking on any specific card opens a detailed review of that card. This allows users to make decisions based upon what sorts of (graphic game) uses they might actually have.
It seems a similar but much smaller objective set of benchmarks could be performed on the various g tablet roots using a set of common uses in part noted above. It doesn't need to be as elaborate or detailed as the video card review site noted above. Just objectively testing a few simple end user tasks would seem to be adequate to get beyond the subjective raves that one commonly sees about this or that OS change...
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
So is this a religious thread, I see Jesus was mentioned.
Actually sometimes you modders act like it.
I'll get the other times later. Here is the startup time.
Droofus said:
FYI, part of this is related to my background as a doctor (plus a computer background dating back beyond the Apple II to programming FORTRAN and COMPASS on mainframes in the 1960s). As doctors we are constantly bombarded with all sorts of anecdotal raves about this or that treatment all the time, only to find that they aren't supported by actual objective research -- some cause harm, not healing. Fortunately for those promoting software changes related to raves and fads don't have the potential to cause anyone significant harm... Excuse me if I'd like to see similar objective professional 'standards of care' when it comes to reviewing and analyzing software/hardware fads. I'm sure there are plenty of others in the audience who'd feel the same...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, while I can see your point, I also have to point out the other side of the argument. I am an engineer. Last year, we got a college graduate who, from the outlook, had all the numbers and credentials. He graduated with almost a perfect gpa. Sounds nice, right? He had all the numbers. The problem was as soon as he began working with us we figured out very quickly that we had a book smart-absolutely no common sense person with us. I swear, he pulled me aside one time and asked me why they were "watering the concrete slabs" in the lab. It got worse from there. I had to explain to him very basic engineering concepts and applications like stirrups, slippage, etc.
This guy actually went through college getting the grades and everything without actually understanding any of it. He graduated with a structural engineering degree without knowing the very simple practical processes of curing concrete or reinforcing footings.
The point is numbers can be deceiving if you ignore annecdotal (aka common sense) evidence. You need both objective numbers and common sense to work in reality. Sure, I've heard plenty of annecdotal nonsense like creationist BS, religious miracles, and homeopathic crap. I'll give you that. But you seem to be on the other extreme side, which is to ignore all personal evidence and place all your bets on pure numbers.
I'm telling you now. We got both the numbers and personal evidence. I'll try to get them for you.
Doofus
I like the list of missing benchmarks you listed. Why don't you measure them and report back?
Droofus said:
What I'm looking for is defined, at least in part, in the first post. Copy and pasted here for your convenience.
Stuff like, time to boot? Time to load common apps? Time to open the same web page? Frames on games? Time to download? Max browser pages open? Other relevant numbers welcome...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All those numbers are identical before and after rooting your device since nothing changes before and after root, other than you now have root access.
That was easy.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Theres some more random numbers
While watching everyone bash eachother here has its entertainment i have some advice.
Droofus
1 i would recomend not comming into a community forum and bashing people who put a lot of effort into making the product you own better. These people don't get paid for the hours of work they put in.
2 if you don't like how thing are done around here take the time to be a good example and do it better. You clearly have an idea in your head on how to make a professional stastical representation of the roms so do it.
3 what some people are trying to tell you is that it is not all about the numbers. Some people want gingerbread features. Right now all of the gingerbread roms suck for video performance due to driver issues so i don't use them. I like the gingerbread features but i watch videos a lot so i use a froyo rom. Others really care about performance so they give up some stability and overlock.
4 people around here get upset when the same question gets asked over and over again. If you have done some reasearch reference other articles to show that.
5 this is a dual core tablet, what are you doing that you care that much about preformance.
This thing is faster than my netbook.
6 dropping your title on us just makes you sound pretentious. There are a lot of very intellgent successful people here who are not impressed by doctors or your past experience. If you have useful skills to the community don't brag just use them and people will be grateful.
7 people were a little rude about it but they are right. I tell people that if they want something that is easy go buy an ipad or a xoom. If you want something for under 300 then buy a g tab and understand that with some effort it can be great.
Everyone
1 relax... starting flame wars with someone who doesn't know their way around isn't going to help anyone.
I forgot to mention that traditionally us geeks are known for our lack of formal documentation.
P.s. while many of us proudly wear the badge of geek calling us a pack of geeks is a little adversarial.
Once a phone is opened up how long does it typically take before we see custom roms like CM7?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
Every phone has it's own dev. Who knows. It happens if or when it happens.
Is it possible to get an official CM7 and not just a port?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
I think Devs are working hard on that.
tjjensen23 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic: That was the coolest video ever.
On topic I'm betting we will see some CM7 roms (very buggy ones) within the next couple weeks.
I was just over at their forums. I see an old post that was revived asking for an atrix version, but no other threads. so who knows...
Also when it is done on the At&t atrix, will international users be able to flash it when our bootloader is unlocked or will we have to wait for another port?
There's already a Tegra phone out in the wild running CM7.. oh wait i have one sitting right next to my Atrix. That should make it a decent bit easier to get CM7 working on the Atrix.
This thread should be deleted - the cardinal rule of CM is... do NOT ask for etas!!!!!!!!!! It will be ready whenever its ready...
Devs are working hard on that.
I believe these kinds of threads are VERY necessary...it reminds the devs that we are still wanting CM7...if nobody wants it nobody would post...so this is a way to push the devs....supply and demand =)
I'm not trying to step on anyone's foot, but i just don't understand why u guys get mad simply cuz a guy is asking for an ETA, you never know, maybe one of us may be almost done porting CM7...
Mafisometal said:
I believe these kinds of threads are VERY necessary...it reminds the devs that we are still wanting CM7...if nobody wants it nobody would post...so this is a way to push the devs....supply and demand =)
I'm not trying to step on anyone's foot, but i just don't understand why u guys get mad simply cuz a guy is asking for an ETA, you never know, maybe one of us may be almost done porting CM7...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
lunzi88 said:
So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
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Click to collapse
The devs, much like yourself, are in no way forced to read this kind of thread if it bothers them so much.
_kansei_ said:
The devs, much like yourself, are in no way forced to read this kind of thread if it bothers them so much.
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Click to collapse
Oh not at all. Somebody has to do the grunt work right?
lunzi88 said:
So you mean.. you like having a waiter drop by your table every 5mins to see if you are done with your meal because there is a queue forming outside the restaurant? Because what you're saying is basically the same thing.
Devs are doing this on their free time. They are not obligated to do so and even less so to tell whiny little brats when they will be done with it.
IF they're done with it. THEN they're done with it. All this asking for eta will just piss them off and waste valuable time that could have been spent dev-ing instead of replying dumb posts.
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Wouldn't it be MORE of a waste of time complaining instead of using that time developing? If people are asking for an ETA that means THEIR INTERESTED...if not, then it would be a big waste of time for you and many other developers investing time and money on something people do not want.
I'm a game developer and i go through the same issues as many developers have here. I don't complain from "potential" customers asking for an ETA...it's a little rude even though asking consistently for an ETA is even ruder. Remember those guys asking for an ETA may be donating money to the developer that completes the Rom, so why shun away the people that ultimately may pay for your living.
I'm pretty sure some and possibly most developers here have aspirations to do this sort of thing as a living; and if so, learn to deal with and grow up, you'll be asked for an ETA numerous times in the business world.
your analogy makes no sense to the topic. If i were you i would sit and think a little before saying the first thought that comes to mind.
Mafisometal said:
Wouldn't it be MORE of a waste of time complaining instead of using that time developing? If people are asking for an ETA that means THEIR INTERESTED...if not, then it would be a big waste of time for you and many other developers investing time and money on something people do not want.
I'm a game developer and i go through the same issues as many developers have here. I don't complain from "potential" customers asking for an ETA...it's a little rude even though asking consistently for an ETA is even ruder. Remember those guys asking for an ETA may be donating money to the developer that completes the Rom, so why shun away the people that ultimately may pay for your living.
I'm pretty sure some and possibly most developers here have aspirations to do this sort of thing as a living; and if so, learn to deal with and grow up, you'll be asked for an ETA numerous times in the business world.
your analogy makes no sense to the topic. If i were you i would sit and think a little before saying the first thought that comes to mind.
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I don't think majority of the devs here are doing this for a living, more for interest. I personally don't do any dev-ing so I'm not even sure if I'm right to say this but as a game developer, you yourself have admitted that it rude of people to consistently asking for eta.
But if I were doing this for my personal interest. It won't really matter if nobody wants my work. Because I would be doing it because I wanted to, not because I'm hoping to earn a living from this. I would be pretty god damn pissed every time people were to ask for etas especially if I didn't owe them anything.
Rather then to ask the devs to grow up and "deal" with it. Why not ask those people to simply sit tight and wait?
The analogy is apt, you just probably need a few more cycles to process it.
You mentioned that it is good of people to create these threads so that devs will know that there are still interest in porting over CM7. So similarly, would it be good if someone were to come over to your table every 5mins to ask if you are done with your meal because there are people queuing outside? Think it through. 1) People wants cm7 so they keep creating eta request threads. 2)people are queuing outside the restaurant so the waiter keeps coming over to see if you're done.
That analogy wasn't correct at all.
You've said yourself, they don't cater to us. They do it for fun and because they're interested. I'm a waiter, and it's our job to bother you. We're required to make you as comfy as possible during your dinner or lunch. We're required to get you whatever you need. Within a small amount of time while doing the same for other tables. Even if it doesn't look like you need anything we have to bother the crap out of you. Regardless of queue or not.
Devs are not waiters. They don't have to cater to anyone. But at least the devs will know that we're interested in their work by asking ETA's. I can understand if the whole forum was crying for CM7, but one or two people can't hurt anything, and biting their heads off and throwing bad analogies around won't help anyone.
tjjensen23 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvCpR45LKA
now
THERE IS NO ETA. IT WILL BE DONE WHENEVER IT IS READY
If you want it quicker do it yourself and see how its done
(caps is cruise control for cool )
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Video is hilarious lol
Guys I know I am a newbie on this forum but come on... The OP isn't asking for an actual ETA, hes just asking the community if through past experience anyone has a gauge on how long it takes for a Cm7 port to pop up after a bootloader gets unlocked. How is this not a valid question?
Just like on any forum I am sure it is tiresome for the senior members to see the same questions being rehashed with different variables inserted over and over. At the same time however, his subject made it perfectly clear what he was asking for, why bother to even open this thread if you don't want to constructively answer his question?
All of you were new to the scene at one time try to remember that.
In my case I have been wondering the same thing, while I have spent plenty of time programming in .net languages I haven't done any work like this before so I am struggling to wrap my head around the steps needed to port a rom over. (might just dive in myself and take a look though!)
Anyhow guys my intention is not to offend anyone just remind them that we are all not of the same tenure in this android / dev world.
I've been wondering how the devs develope stuff for phones. How would you go about making a device support a new OS type? Is here a type of code you guys follow? How does it work?
Sent from the best phone in the world Galaxy Note!!!
depends what ypu want to do. otherwise everything deals with a lot of coding
That didn't answer my questions at all...
Sent from the best phone in the world Galaxy Note!!!
Here is google's knowledge base for developing Android software. Not easy to understand if you have never been exposed to software development but hey, it's a start. Plenty of other places on the web.
http://developer.android.com/index.html
software development takes special skills...and time...but if interested the best way is to dive in, start reading and figure it out.
Majority of developers I know are self-learners and like to explore and figure things out, test, try again, fail, try again, learn, etc.
andrawer said:
software development takes special skills...and time...but if interested the best way is to dive in, start reading and figure it out.
Majority of developers I know are self-learners and like to explore and figure things out, test, try again, fail, try again, learn, etc.
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^^^^^^ Good answer. Most people interested in development roll their sleeves up and get busy. They don't just start a thread and wait for the answer. Oh, and they also don't crap on the first answer that they get, either. But good luck. Maybe we'll see some of your work here some day.
I was going to chime in and explain it as best I could, but after seeing how you replied to the first answer, I decided not to. I'll let you find the answer on your own. If you can't do this, you can't develop.
kimtyson said:
. . . Most people interested in development roll their sleeves up and get busy. They don't just start a thread and wait for the answer. Oh, and they also don't crap on the first answer that they get, either.
. . .
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+1.
Sent from my Galaxy S II (i777)
andrawer's answer was useful, xavier's answer was useless, and the answers after his sucked donkey balls.
I've been programming since 1986. I've mentored lots of newbies and some need a little handholding at first, some jump in right from the start. andrawer pointed him in the right direction... if 6 months from now he still needs handholding then its time to reconsider. Until then, don't be an asshole.
I decided to get into programming for Android as well. I bought the book, Java A Beginner's Guide. I have no experience on any language but I will get into that book and hopefully learn Java. Should I take classes as well or book will be enough for me to learn and advance in Java?
techntrek said:
andrawer's answer was useful, xavier's answer was useless, and the answers after his sucked donkey balls.
I've been programming since 1986. I've mentored lots of newbies and some need a little handholding at first, some jump in right from the start. andrawer pointed him in the right direction... if 6 months from now he still needs handholding then its time to reconsider. Until then, don't be an asshole.
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As a peer who began programming back in the days of Fortran77 and Pascal, I have to interject with somewhat of a different perspective. The original question(s) were vague, a tad confusing, too broad, and above all else, completely off topic to this particular forum.
Granted, the first answer should have been to point him towards educating himself on the various pieces that make a phone operational, but more importantly, to learn design, development, various programming languages and how they're applied to mobile technology.
With that said, the first appearance of name calling was with your post. As senior citizens in the confines of XDA it's really expected that we lead by example. Are there going to be wise-butt remarks, those that are useless, and some that are on the crass side? Sure.. but lets leave that to the kids who aren't quite as experienced and mature.
JoeDV said:
As a peer who began programming back in the days of Fortran77 and Pascal, I have to interject with somewhat of a different perspective. The original question(s) were vague, a tad confusing, too broad, and above all else, completely off topic to this particular forum.
Granted, the first answer should have been to point him towards educating himself on the various pieces that make a phone operational, but more importantly, to learn design, development, various programming languages and how they're applied to mobile technology.
With that said, the first appearance of name calling was with your post. As senior citizens in the confines of XDA it's really expected that we lead by example. Are there going to be wise-butt remarks, those that are useless, and some that are on the crass side? Sure.. but lets leave that to the kids who aren't quite as experienced and mature.
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+1000
nice call Joe
but man....."senior citizens"? I don't think I've ever been called a senior citizen, pushing 40 here but man....LOL. But I get your analogy
Middle age, yes, senior citizen... not yet. Although relative to 95% of the members of this site, we are probably ancients.
Just irks me when I see someone show the beginnings of an interest in the profession (or hobby) and the responses are snarky and unhelpful. I see it all the time, not just on this thread.
As for off-topic, not really. This forum is all about apps and OSes, all of which start with code. An interest in learning how to code is the first step.
It seems the general attitude of a lot of patrons has changed as well as some developers. Back when rooting was still in its begging I remember people really trying to help one another and being very through with instructions. Newbee's were guided instead of told to read it on google or become a developer. It just seems to me there has been a kind of lack of respect from the site in general. Tutorials are done quickly with not every single step involved explained. People ask questions and some times there basically told to "pound sand". I have seen arguments and people leaving because of it. I have seen where if a thread is not read in it's entirety (up to 300 posts some times) there are so many revisions but it seems like never a "final cut" of the instructions, that one could brick there phone. It makes it difficult for new people, and sometimes it seems like not friendly environment and I feel like the comradery just is not there anymore. I feel some moderators let certain comments slide and others stand. That the uniformity is kinda missing too. All I want is for people to get along, try to genuinely help one and another. If someone is struggling don't shun them. Also a lot more appreciation for the hard work these Devs do, it just seems like it is just "expected". All I want is a nicer environment to spend my free time in, because in the end, not too many people come here to work or get paid, but as a hobby or leisure time. Im just griping a little because I was just going thru older random threads and I noticed this slow progression to where XDA is now. Kinda need to get back to its "Roots".
It's all the same everywhere. Old people got other commitment while new generation are self entitled. Live with it.