This has been discussed before, but i went into a store today and dealt with a guy who is a complete idiot regarding my device. Went in discussing network, and had to explain to the guy the difference between Band 13 and Band 4 aka Lte vs XLTE. Wow. I thought the people advertising these phones to people would know what it means. Anyway I am not generalizing all Reps, just some i ha e dealt with.
ihavenewnike said:
This has been discussed before, but i went into a store today and dealt with a guy who is a complete idiot regarding my device. Went in discussing network, and had to explain to the guy the difference between Band 13 and Band 4 aka Lte vs XLTE. Wow. I thought the people advertising these phones to people would know what it means. Anyway I am not generalizing all Reps, just some i ha e dealt with.
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Click to collapse
From my experience in retail this is half the CS reps' fault and half Store level management. While it is the Associates' responsibility to understand the products and services they sell, it is also the Store Managers' responsibility to make sure their Associates are trained and knowledgeable. It is in my opinion that the work ethic in this country has fallen too low, we are too concerned with the bottom dollar.
kinstre11 said:
From my experience in retail this is half the CS reps' fault and half Store level management. While it is the Associates' responsibility to understand the products and services they sell, it is also the Store Managers' responsibility to make sure their Associates are trained and knowledgeable. It is in my opinion that the work ethic in this country has fallen too low, we are too concerned with the bottom dollar.
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I don't know how I forgot that. I agree that training is needed to know what they are selling. I mean, I have asked before what does XLTE mean for usage and they said it just means it is faster which is not necessarily true.
ihavenewnike said:
I don't know how I forgot that. I agree that training is needed to know what they are selling. I mean, I have asked before what does XLTE mean for usage and they said it just means it is faster which is not necessarily true.
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Click to collapse
It is wonderful to live in an age where information is at our fingertips, most anything can be found if we just look in the right places (i.e. Google). I find it amazing how dumb people seem to be getting when we have more knowledge at our disposal than ever before in history. True Irony.
kinstre11 said:
It is wonderful to live in an age where information is at our fingertips, most anything can be found if we just look in the right places (i.e. Google). I find it amazing how dumb people seem to be getting when we have more knowledge at our disposal than ever before in history. True Irony.
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Click to collapse
True. Was just thinking that. A simple Web article and employees or in this case anyone can be beyond knowlegable on anything.
I never ask the reps at vzw, I feel like they're just feeding us bull and things we want to hear. I completely agree with finding answer on the web.
From my perspective of working in retail I can tell you that the average person walking into Verizon (or any other tech store) the last thing they are concerned about is stuff like Band 13 vs Band 4. Let alone probably couldn't care to know what it is or other stuff we here on XDA take for granted like root, unlocked bootloaders, ROMs, etc. Most people are more concerned about stuff like basic overview of coverage and if whatever device can stream Pandora... and if they are getting a "good deal" on 1 gigabyte of data per month which they all think is "more than enough."
I'm not trying to excuse why a rep doesn't know something like why XLTE is better than traditional LTE but I'm just putting into perspective on what a typical sales rep really gets asked on a daily basis. That in turn typically is... "can I play Angry Birds on this here S4?"
AngryManMLS said:
From my perspective of working in retail I can tell you that the average person walking into Verizon (or any other tech store) the last thing they are concerned about is stuff like Band 13 vs Band 4. Let alone probably couldn't care to know what it is or other stuff we here on XDA take for granted like root, unlocked bootloaders, ROMs, etc. Most people are more concerned about stuff like basic overview of coverage and if whatever device can stream Pandora... and if they are getting a "good deal" on 1 gigabyte of data per month which they all think is "more than enough."
I'm not trying to excuse why a rep doesn't know something like why XLTE is better than traditional LTE but I'm just putting into perspective on what a typical sales rep really gets asked on a daily basis. That in turn typically is... "can I play Angry Birds on this here S4?"
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True. This lady on my same trip, about 40, was asking how she could download games like candy crush. and if the installing bar meant it was working. But when I said band 4 and 13 I meant that XLTE allows more bandwith.
As a rep for multiple types of products at one time or another I'd say finding that one person who knows what they are talking about is rare. These guys also don't get trained that deeply on products. I remember doing the Apple training and half the stuff I glazed over because I just didn't care. But if the rep decides to spend their free time researching this stuff it should be up to them. Otherwise the company should fund the time to teach them. Don't expect a rep to arm themselves with knowledge with a crappy paying job
hazard99 said:
As a rep for multiple types of products at one time or another I'd say finding that one person who knows what they are talking about is rare. These guys also don't get trained that deeply on products. I remember doing the Apple training and half the stuff I glazed over because I just didn't care. But if the rep decides to spend their free time researching this stuff it should be up to them. Otherwise the company should fund the time to teach them. Don't expect a rep to arm themselves with knowledge with a crappy paying job
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Not saying they have to know everything, like the difference between a snapdragon 800 and 801 and 805, but if I was to ask is the s5 or note 3 better at multitasking don't tell me the s5 " because it is newer"
ihavenewnike said:
Not saying they have to know everything, like the difference between a snapdragon 800 and 801 and 805, but if I was to ask is the s5 or note 3 better at multitasking don't tell me the s5 " because it is newer"
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I totally agree with that. They should really have proper training on these things. Really one of the things I noticing with the training is it was rushed and if I wanted a great more deal of detail I went and found it myself. Even the reps for the companies that come in and visit the store couldn't provide that info. I remember talking with a Samsung rep and she had all the shiny info about the s pen but nothing about the hardware specs of the phone. I think those of us who want that info are a dying breed. And with stores not being able to provide hours to properly train the employees you fall into this seriously sick pit of untrained people. So let's blame the company's who don't supply time enough to train employees. The again that's how we get the savings lol and they still make profit
Did I see someone say "savings"? Lol! This is Verizon we are talking about here? These two words do not mix. Kind of like oil and water.
Any way, the desire for knowledge by the general public is dying very fast. These people have been lulled into a semi deep brain sleep. And are content only with their sugar filled diets and games. Hard work and knowledge as far as these people are concerned should be left to the "professionals" or in another word. The government's. Lol! What they need to understand is that the "professionals" and government's are in this same deep sleep them selves. Oh well.
Sent from my SM-N900V
Related
http://phandroid.com/2010/10/05/skype-for-android-now-available-worldwide/
Edit
that's right, is doesn't work on the Vibrant.
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
amorek13 said:
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
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Click to collapse
It appears that it doesn't work on any galaxy s phone..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's a POS app
no Video calling
no group calling
They waited this long to release this Garbage?
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
Galaxy S owners get the shaft ... yet again! Maybe we should just recognize the fact that AT&T/iPhone 4 is the best game in town and quit trying to play catch up.
There is a GPS fix that allows it to work excellent. Get over it.
dcchristopher said:
Well, at least we all now know a little more about the two of you. I don't blame you entirely for your disgraceful behavior. Surely your upbringing had a lot to do with it.
I don't see how what I said was inflammatory but perhaps it was misperceived. Allow me to explain: I paid $500 for this device. I honestly don't even need the phone aspect of it. I just need it to access the internet (email, web, etc), then as a media player, and then occasionally as a GPS device. The calling capabilities are literally icing on the cake. Let's just skip the whole GPS part since that needs no introduction. It simply doesn't work (unless you consider your location jumping around every 10 seconds "working" ... yeah, what fun it is to be hearing erroneous directions from your GPS device). T-mobile's voice and data services have been quite paltry in my experience. Calls drop quite often and that's something many Tmo subscribers complain about, especially near downtown and on a NexusOne. Moreover, data takes FOREVER to connect. I could be getting 4mbps/2mbps one second, then 750k/300k the next, then incessant data connection attempts with no data being transmitted ... until I reboot my phone. WTF??? A month ago I was driving from Dallas to San Antonio and got nothing but Edge the whole way down ... all along an interstate highway (albeit one of the worst I've ever seen) ... the phone was even occasionally switching to "G" and it took me forever to remember what that stood for ... GPRS!!! I haven't seen that since the 90s.
If you guys think it is acceptable to get ripped off like that, for hardware and services, by all means continue condoning and promoting Tmo and Sammy's failures and inaction by rewarding them for all that. These phones went on sale 7/15, around the same time Tmo announced their HSPA+ network. Three months later, you expect at least "an" action. No credits, no buy-backs, no remedies ... only failed promises. If you bought a car that couldn't perform as advertised and spec'd, I'm sure you would act differently.
But ... judging from your comments above, you guys are entirely worthy of your fate.
Best,
DCC
P.S. I dislike Apple fanboys just as much as the next guy but at some point we all need to man up to the facts ... the iPhone has the best user experience ... and Windows Phone 7 offers the best development experience (trust me, I have written/am writing apps for all three). The only thing positive about Android in my opinion is the tight integration of all the Google apps and services ... which oddly are not favored by many Android fans on this site ... in addition, they are increasingly being integrated in the other platforms as well (albeit not fast enough). Again, why Android? If it's because you want to be this decade's equivalent of the 90s' Linux geek who spends all day customizing the OS and the environment instead of actually using it and putting to good use, then have fun! Don't feel bad ... most people do not learn from history's lessons either!
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Click to collapse
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
As for the OP, Skype went downhill once they went to bed with the big red.
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
lqaddict said:
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really wanted Android to succeed but it hasn't and I'm not necessarily blaming Android itself. I just don't see how I can choose it when the hardware and carrier are dropping the ball. All three (OS, hardware, carrier) are part and parcel. "Hardware support" is not enough when the hardware itself is not cutting it. First the Hero had build quality and connectivity issues, now the Vibrant has an elusive Froyo build and major GPS issues (in response to a previous post, I have yet to see a truly working "fix" and I have installed most if not all of them ... whoever claims it's now perfectly working is smoking something he/she should share with the rest of us).
Thank you for keeping an open mind and I do agree with you that individual experiences will vary but let's agree that this forum is proof that there are major unaddressed problems with this phone.
junkdruggler said:
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
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Click to collapse
Thank you for applying intelligence and not resorting to childish name-calling ... simply put, I left AT&T after a decade of being their customer because my non-iPhone superphones (usually purchased from abroad but compatible with US 3G) were being intentionally disregarded by their network in favor of the iPhone devices out there ... $110 a month for a discriminating data service is not acceptable. iPhones are also a little "too user-friendly" for me. I preferred a more open platform. At this point though, I will settle for a device that "just works". That is what every iPhone user will tell you out there ... the s*** just works. A phone is something that should enable you to do things with it, whether it's productivity, app development, multimedia, services, etc. A phone is not a perpetual hack factory, at least not as a primary device. If people want a side project to play with, great. What I have seen on this forum though is that most people need a phone that works for them, not the other way around.
I am waiting for the first generation WP7 phones to roll out and see what drama will ensue, if any. As you very astutely stated, "there are pros and cons to any device and any carrier". I really enjoy the WP7 mobile app development environment and so long as the phones are not involved in yet another fiasco, I will most likely get one. If not, the iPhone it is.
I'm not trolling and I do not mean to offend hard-core Linux super-users/developers but this business of shoddy phones, shoddy service and endless "hacking" is not right when we're all paying 50-100 a month for service and 200-500 for devices. I am surprised that people are not up in arms about it. There really needs to be a class-action lawsuit over this. I know, a handful of lawyers will just make a shipload of money. Still, companies cannot get away with this sort of negligence. This isn't the first time and it sure as heck won't be the last.
Vote with your dollars and best luck to you,
DCC
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
lqaddict said:
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
PaiPiePia said:
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully Android will survive, even if only because competition is a good thing. I think most of the issues faced today (so-called fragmentation, etc) will be resolved in the re-architecture being introduced in Android 3.0. I'm more concerned about the carriers and hardware manufacturers closing up shop after a phone has been released and only looking forward to the next model. What good is it if Android survives and succeeds if I am the one left holding the dud? "Oh, just pay another two to five hundred dollars." The worst part is that the user/owner community turns a blind eye to the egregious failures in the name of fandom. That is NOT the way to organize and effect change.
dcchristopher said:
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
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Click to collapse
I guess I went to the apple forums before the proximity sensor issues were resolved, and it was Vibrant GPS Redux over there.
I am glad that Apple took care of the problem after a few updates to their iOS, but as with the GPS issues on our phones the proximity sensor should've been caught during the QA, I am not gonna say anything about Antennagate.
Hopefully GPS will be patched for good on the Vibrant too, and no I do not need the proof that it is addressed with the latest update - faster locks does not mean accuracy.
scrizz said:
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
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Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
cdill3000 said:
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
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Don't let Skype off the hook though ... I used to be a big fan of theirs but they've been very slow with delivering platform-specific clients and they seem to be playing favorites and such. Closing the door on fring, a very, very open solution out there, was a deplorable thing to do.
It doesn't matter folks ... when Google comes out with their VOIP service, and you KNOW they will (Gizmo5 acquisition, etc), all these other (dis-)services will be obliterated. I predict Google will establish its own data-only cell carrier (cause data is all you need anyway) ... hopefully within the next 2-3 years.
I know this thread kinda derailed off topic, but imma put my two cents in.
I do kinda agree with DCC, at my workplace pretty much everyone has some sort of smart phone. When the subject of phones comes up, I am the first one to bang my chest and yell ANDROID~!
But the sad truth is, iphone users like the iphone because IT DOES WHAT THEY NEED IT TO DO. they really dont care about all the stuff we have come to love about android.
So they are happy and content, while we are up till the wee hrs of the morning trying to make our phones have a milli-second faster lol.
And to me its not really trying to make our phones better than the iphone, its me just making my phone better than it was.
I am disappointed in samsung about the lag issue and the gps issue.
I dont complain about it though, cause we are all here at this website to make our phones better than it is from stock. and I am 100 percent sure , once its said and done, this phone will more than satisfy me.
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
cashless said:
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
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Click to collapse
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
dcchristopher said:
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Saying that a company violated API publicly when they didn't is libel.
Just answer the question, your smugness, where did you get your info (especially seeing as you're stating that it's an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring. I guess you're one of these people behind these closed doors?
Lemme get your "jump to conclusions" board for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev3rUQMvyhU
In an attempt to distance themselves from the increasingly volatile Carrier IQ situation, we’ve been told that Sprint has ordered that all of their hardware partners remove the Carrier IQ software from Sprint devices as soon as possible.
This comes after a number of dramatic turns over the past few weeks. During that time Carrier IQ was called a lot of things, from a harmless mobile intelligence company to a vicious rootkit designed to steal our personal data and sell it to the ne’er-do-wells. In my opinion, Carrier IQ is a company that provides a service that benefits everyone with a cellphone by giving information to the carriers about when their network has problems that affects our service. Unfortunately, this software was installed in such a manner that, when discovered, there was a significant panic. This is understandable because the software was forced onto unsuspecting users with no real oversight to speak of.
That panic was made worse when the company responded by trying to silence the person who discovered the software, instead of trying to explain what was actually happening. So here we sit, a month away from a Senate hearing on whether or not Carrier IQ is doing anything illegal, on top of a barrage of lawsuits against all of the companies involved.
Sources at HTC have told us that, as a result of the lawsuits targeting Carrier IQ, Sprint, and other CIQ-using OEMs, Sprint has asked all of their partners to get rid of Carrier IQ. Starting with the high-volume and high-profile devices on the network, each of the OEM’s has been asked to quickly release binaries that do not contain Carrier IQ so that over-the-air updates can be pushed to those devices as quickly as possible. The eventual plan is to remove Carrier IQ from all of the devices on Sprint’s network.
This is being done as soon as possible and, according to our source at HTC, anyone who is working with Sprint in testing labs have even had their vacation time over the holidays seriously restricted. No official rollout plan for these updates has been devised, but it has been made clear to everyone involved that this change needs to happen soon. I would assume that we will see updates for devices including the iPhone, HTC Evo 3D, and the Samsung Galaxy S II Epic 4G Touch before 2012.
At this time, Carrier IQ, Samsung, and Apple all refused to comment on any developments in this matter.
Some may view this as a classic “too little, too late” situation. Sprint waited until there were lawsuits to start removing Carrier IQ from their network, where previously they had been defending their use of the mobile intelligence service. This could possibly even be seen as an admission of guilt, as them removing the software in an attempt to make amends for what they have been caught doing.
Even so, Sprint could have just as easily made a public statement announcing that they were turning off the servers that collected the information, pending the results of the trial and the Senate inquiry. At that point a simple test from any of the security researchers that have gotten involved would confirm Sprint’s cancellation of CIQ and they wouldn’t have to involve every manufacturer on their network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile...trip-carrier-iq-from-their-hardware-20111216/
TrevE > CIQ
Nuff said!!!
Another victory!!!! TrevE is forever my hero!
While this is nice and all the article seems to be lacking some knowledge in itself on some things. mainly the fact it included iPhone in the list of devices that would be getting updates. I'm pretty sure Apple commented on this long ago stating they do not use CarrierIQ in their devices anymore at all.
And I can't really see Sprint able to force Apple to load it on the device either...
Awsome just hope we didn't make it worst for sprint
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
tech7 said:
Awsome just hope we didn't make it worst for sprint
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just had to laugh I mean Sprints network already sucks how could it possibly get worse. CarrierIQ is not going to fix 4G or even poor 3G speeds due to network congestion. They know they have a problem doubt they need an app to confirm it.
Can you say Pwned! TrevE is the man!
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
bloodrain954 said:
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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How are we pathetic..... Ciq is the one that is pathetic. They had the chance to explain what CIQ does but instead they try to silence TrevE. On top of that they install CIQ without even letting you know.
I understand that it's probably used to make phones and services better, but they should at least give you a disclaimer, an opt out option, and an explanation of what CIQ does and maybe then so many people wouldn't be angry at CIQ.
I think the *****ing and complaining is like he said...the fact they covered it up, tried to silence someone. Not that its probably bad software but bad business ethics. Agreed?
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
bloodrain954 said:
Tons of idiots. Ciq is made to learn how you do things, so they can make it better. Yet, you complain about things your phone can't do. How the **** are they supposed to know what you want if you don't tell them? Oh yeah HTC is supposed to troll the forums and sees that one person doesnt like sense and remove it bc one person doesn't like it. Or they could use ciq, see that 50% of people who have sense, use a different launcher and then rethink their approach. You guys are pathetic.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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Oh please, its fine that you are ok with invasive measures that reduce your personal security, freedom, and privacy but criticizing other's opinions based on your lack of knowledge is crap. When your life is ruined because data isn't protected and you didn't authorize or get the choice in giving that info up I hope you remember your BS logic that the risk is fine and dandy because they were "trying" to gather data to improve things.
So naive, yeah they want to mine and transfer data to make your life better. Wrong, bottom line is the almighty dollar. They make millions doing what they do, they could give two ****s less about you and your experience
+1 so true
Information was still being withdrawn from my phone without my permission. Individual info should never be given out for free nor taken without consent.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
CIQ might have done the right thing collecting error logs on the phone to troubleshoot. But installing it on devices without user permission or any kind of disclosure of the software being install is just "unethical".
P.S. the reason why they are being sued was due to unethical practices.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
The fact that it was capable of reading texts, emails, URLs, passwords is what the problem is. We're just supposed to believe they aren't using it for that? Why the hell is it even possible to do so then?!
Cuss all you want..you can be a tool. I'll go with the crowd that wants it gone.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Sad Panda said:
Oh please, its fine that you are ok with invasive measures that reduce your personal security, freedom, and privacy but criticizing other's opinions based on your lack of knowledge is crap. When your life is ruined because data isn't protected and you didn't authorize or get the choice in giving that info up I hope you remember your BS logic that the risk is fine and dandy because they were "trying" to gather data to improve things.
So naive, yeah they want to mine and transfer data to make your life better. Wrong, bottom line is the almighty dollar. They make millions doing what they do, they could give two ****s less about you and your experience
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LOL! When my life is ruined? They aren't stealing credit card and social security numbers, they are just reporting what apps and hardware is used during the day. Huge difference. Yeah, CIQ didn't do the right thing with the lawsuit, boo hoo life goes on.
You know people at your local bank track everything you do, have access to your credit cards and social security number. They can tell you where you've spent your money, what you bought, and all your personal information, yet nobody cries about that. But its a huge deal to report to Sprint that your playing angry birds at 1pm.
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bloodrain954 said:
You know people at your local bank track everything you do, have access to your credit cards and social security number. They can tell you where you've spent your money, what you bought, and all your personal information, yet nobody cries about that. But its a huge deal to report to Sprint that your playing angry birds at 1pm.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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That's because by choosing the bank you opt into that, and go in knowing that they can track your money. And for the record they don't know what you bought, just that you spent so much money here and so much money there. The cc from the bank gets an amount taken not an itemization of funds spent per transaction. CIQ was added without knowledge, why can't you grasp the differences?
http://allthingsd.com/20111201/carr...monitors-service-messages-ignores-other-data/
Learn what it really does before you jump on the zomg my personal info is compromised!!1! Bandwagon.
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bloodrain954 said:
http://allthingsd.com/20111201/carr...monitors-service-messages-ignores-other-data/
Learn what it really does before you jump on the zomg my personal info is compromised!!1! Bandwagon.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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First of all I never said anything about personal info. I don't like how it was forced onto us without control. Second, just because they say (AFTER they were found out about) that their software does do anything with personal data doesn't mean it's true. The US Gov said there were weapons of mass destruction and we should go to war, there wasn't and we were there for oil only. Don't believe something especially when the company has their back against the wall trying to fish their way out.
wardfan220 said:
The US Gov said there were weapons of mass destruction and we should go to war, there wasn't and we were there for oil only.
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Iraq war is a great analogy for Carrier IQ....
I don't know if anyone has seen the new post made on portal but I intend to send this to all the Apple Exec's and relevant people I can find.
We should all send this to the same people to let them know what we think.
Dear Apple,
Your ENTIRE organization lacks morals and free market competition basics, and as such, you are not worthy of having the glory that you now posses. While you may have revolutionized the world as we know it with very well crafted marketing campaigns and some good ideas, you are far from being a true innovator in the field of… anything. Just think for one second about the LEAPS in technology that you would have accomplished, should you have invested in R&D a quarter of the money you spend into advertising and marketing. Then, you would have something worth portraying as a technological wonder, something that would likely be untouchable by others. Something truly genuine that you can call your own, and at the end of the day you could look at with pride. What you have right now is a bunch of reinvented wheels, most of which don’t do much more than other wheels out there.
Redefining concepts and ideas is not what makes a company great; coming up with new concepts is. HTC and other major OEMS have often been in the vanguard by innovating with their products, adding new features, rethinking, and just putting concepts out there to imagine their possibilities. Your last innovations and only major contributions to the world of mobile technology were the inclusion of capacitive multi-touch gestures and an accelerometer in mobile devices, and these were with the original iPhone back in 2007. For that and only that, I give you credit. All the newer models of virtually every product you sell have been remakes of previous technology—perhaps a little thinner and a little faster, but all in all, minor changes.
It is because of companies like yours that technology is not further today than where it currently is. You are so adamant in protecting something that you didn’t even invent that you are holding back future innovation. The spirit and basic concepts of engineering are completely missing from your business models. Courtesy of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology:
Engineering is the profession in which a knowledge of the mathematical and natural sciences gained by experience, study, and practice is applied with judgement to develop ways to utilize economically, the materials and forces of nature for the benefit of mankind.
Notice the importance of the concept that you are no longer following. Engineering practices are used for the betterment of mankind. What have you done for this purpose? Rebrand an existing technology (MP3 players) and sell them for twice the price? Trying to cripple your competitors by claiming that you invented something that was previously invented, when you simply adapted the technology and closed off any other use of this by others? This can be compared to using a Linux kernel (if it weren’t under GPL license), patenting it, and closing it off so that no one else can use it.
Apple, you are simply a disgrace to the world of technology and to engineering in general. I feel ashamed of being called an engineer in a world where your company roams around freely without even following the most basic of the field’s concepts—a world where the law and justice are blind to the fact that your actions are hindering humanity’s advancement. While I understand that there is nothing wrong with making money, there is something very wrong with replacing engineering with greed.
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Does anyone know some definite e-mail addresses to Apple execs and relevant people?
E-mail Addresses found so far:
Tim Cook [email protected]
How about sending it to one infinite loop,Cupertino CA
At least spam filters won't get it...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
I went to their site earlier today and when on chat to let them know my anger. Click thru their Google ad first
Nice! Even though i dont have any email addresses, i think this should be posted to any and every response to or from a crapple fan or employee.
Sent from my Transformer
sent
This is silly.
I mean, heck. If I were company A who invented idea X and company B came along with idea X, I would not be so different from Apple.
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
What we need is a "Free EVO" campaign
typhoonikan said:
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
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Ah, didn't realize the Customs office is holding HTC products for ****s and giggles.
Doesn't matter. Voices need to be heard.
I sent one too!
Steve Jobs would sometimes personally answer emails, but I doubt Tim Cook would. Honestly at this point it's out of Apple's hands as it's US Customs who are enforcing it and controlling the process of holding the phones so a mass email to them would be more effective.
typhoonikan said:
This is silly.
I mean, heck. If I were company A who invented idea X and company B came along with idea X, I would not be so different from Apple.
And, Apple employees are not the ones hording our EVOs. Its the government.
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Therein lies the biggest issue, Apple didn't invent a lot of the stuff they have patents for. They are just the first ones to try and patent something so ridiculous.
coolblue830 said:
Steve Jobs would sometimes personally answer emails, but I doubt Tim Cook would. Honestly at this point it's out of Apple's hands as it's US Customs who are enforcing it and controlling the process of holding the phones so a mass email to them would be more effective.
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Tell my why the HTC One on T-Moblie is being held? You know, the network without the iphoney...
Pure thuggery by apple
Sent from my Sprint Galaxy Nexus CDMA using Tapatalk 2
shook187 said:
What we need is a "Free EVO" campaign
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As in "free" beer, or "free" willy?
Sent.
All sprint and other cellular phone salesman should advise customers against buying the iPhone. Recommend a Nexus or EVO LTE instead.
Peace All,
Where is ANONYMOUS when we need them? They would be the best at doing this--hey they might even be able to shut down some of Apple's infrastructure
phatmanxxl said:
All sprint and other cellular phone salesman should advise customers against buying the iPhone. Recommend a Nexus or EVO LTE instead.
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I sell phones and already do this! B-)
Apple doesn't care what non-customers think of them.
Apple's action is anti-consumer, it's time to awaken the government's consumer protection arms to take action against Apple. Write to your Attorney Generals, write to the Federal Trade Commission. Make Apple listen.
No.. this isn't actually a post about the Prime's problems... it's actually about how companies handle things when they screw up. A lot of people here seemed genuinely grateful for what Asus did postfacto... I'm not one of them because my bar is set higher. I expect more from the companies I buy from - well, when it's a $500 tablet anyway.
Here's an example of where the bar SHOULD be set.
A month or so ago, Google announced the Q - basically their version of the Roku or the AppleTV. Thing is, while it's innovative design, it kind of sucked at being an actual Internet appliance. Google admitted the Q was shipped too soon and had significant problems. They halted production.. and here's the kicker - everyone will get a free replacement. They don't even have to return the original. And if you preordered and haven't gotten yours, you get a free one.
Here's the letter they sent out:
We have an important update about your Nexus Q pre-order.
When we announced Nexus Q at Google I/O, we gave away devices to attendees for an early preview. The industrial design and hardware were met with great enthusiasm. We also heard initial feedback from users that they want Nexus Q to do even more than it does today. In response, we have decided to postpone the consumer launch of Nexus Q while we work on making it even better.
To thank you for your early interest, we'd like to extend the Nexus Q preview to our pre-order customers and send you a free device. If you had other items in your order, your credit card will be charged for those items only.
Your Nexus Q will be on its way soon and you will receive a notification and tracking number from Google Play when it ships.
The Nexus Q Team
So, they're giving away free replacements for everyone who has one - who got them for FREE... and everyone who preordered... also gets one for free.
They certainly didn't need to do this. Most people understood that the problems with the Q were relatively minor and most could be fixed with software upgrades... not to mention, the people who got theirs at Google IO didn't actually pay for them. Not an issue - not even a discussion point - Google wants to make sure you stay loyal and stick with them. Anything to make the customer happy. No attempt to try and gloss over the problem or shirk responsibility.
THAT'S customer service, amigos. No screwing around with buckshee hacks. No 'we didn't mean it when we said you have a GPS..'
That's the bar we should set and demand.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207482/nexus-q-consumer-launch-delayed
PS: You'll notice I'm here telling you how great Google is rather than being out there telling others how great Asus is? That's why it's important to encourage customer loyalty... And I don't even HAVE a Q (not available in this country).
TheWerewolf said:
Nice story about google giving away expensive devices for free...
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To be fair to ASUS, Google is a $207Billion company with almost $40B a year in revenue. The future of the company is hardly riding on them making a profit on their Nexus Q, heck it could be that no one's job is even riding on it given their business situation. Asus on the other hand is like a $6B company in US funds. Google could absorb financial hits that would completely BK or force massive layoffs at many other companies (like ASUS) without blinking. I think ASUS blew it with their QA on recent units but they have made some effort to try to set things right.
You can demand and expect completely-out-of-touch-with-the-rest-of-the-industry replacement/recall policies but you'll probably disappointed most of your life. Even mighty Apple told people they were holding their phones wrong when Antennagate hit. It probably makes more sense to learn your lesson and just move on.
To be honest, I think the world has enough/too many $100B+ companies already.
TheWerewolf said:
No.. this isn't actually a post about the Prime's problems... it's actually about how companies handle things when they screw up. A lot of people here seemed genuinely grateful for what Asus did postfacto... I'm not one of them because my bar is set higher. I expect more from the companies I buy from - well, when it's a $500 tablet anyway.
Here's an example of where the bar SHOULD be set.
A month or so ago, Google announced the Q - basically their version of the Roku or the AppleTV. Thing is, while it's innovative design, it kind of sucked at being an actual Internet appliance. Google admitted the Q was shipped too soon and had significant problems. They halted production.. and here's the kicker - everyone will get a free replacement. They don't even have to return the original. And if you preordered and haven't gotten yours, you get a free one.
Here's the letter they sent out:
We have an important update about your Nexus Q pre-order.
When we announced Nexus Q at Google I/O, we gave away devices to attendees for an early preview. The industrial design and hardware were met with great enthusiasm. We also heard initial feedback from users that they want Nexus Q to do even more than it does today. In response, we have decided to postpone the consumer launch of Nexus Q while we work on making it even better.
To thank you for your early interest, we'd like to extend the Nexus Q preview to our pre-order customers and send you a free device. If you had other items in your order, your credit card will be charged for those items only.
Your Nexus Q will be on its way soon and you will receive a notification and tracking number from Google Play when it ships.
The Nexus Q Team
So, they're giving away free replacements for everyone who has one - who got them for FREE... and everyone who preordered... also gets one for free.
They certainly didn't need to do this. Most people understood that the problems with the Q were relatively minor and most could be fixed with software upgrades... not to mention, the people who got theirs at Google IO didn't actually pay for them. Not an issue - not even a discussion point - Google wants to make sure you stay loyal and stick with them. Anything to make the customer happy. No attempt to try and gloss over the problem or shirk responsibility.
THAT'S customer service, amigos. No screwing around with buckshee hacks. No 'we didn't mean it when we said you have a GPS..'
That's the bar we should set and demand.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/31/3207482/nexus-q-consumer-launch-delayed
PS: You'll notice I'm here telling you how great Google is rather than being out there telling others how great Asus is? That's why it's important to encourage customer loyalty... And I don't even HAVE a Q (not available in this country).
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Well said! In my opinion they would gain a stronger customer base.
zenaxe said:
To be fair to ASUS, Google is a $207Billion company with almost $40B a year in revenue. The future of the company is hardly riding on them making a profit on their Nexus Q, heck it could be that no one's job is even riding on it given their business situation. Asus on the other hand is like a $6B company in US funds. Google could absorb financial hits that would completely BK or force massive layoffs at many other companies (like ASUS) without blinking. I think ASUS blew it with their QA on recent units but they have made some effort to try to set things right.
You can demand and expect completely-out-of-touch-with-the-rest-of-the-industry replacement/recall policies but you'll probably disappointed most of your life. Even mighty Apple told people they were holding their phones wrong when Antennagate hit. It probably makes more sense to learn your lesson and just move on.
To be honest, I think the world has enough/too many $100B+ companies already.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I would never expect a smaller company like ASUS to be able to do something like this. But, the Prime really is such a mess in my eyes that it would take something drastic to get me to buy another ASUS product. When you have a seemingly pretty faulty device combined with the absolute horrid customer support (19 days now they've had mine, still waiting for parts) you lose me as a customer. Granted, I also have a faulty ASUS motherboard in my computer, so I have another reason to never buy from them again since that's 2 for 2 of the ASUS products I've ever owned having issues.
If things are better on the Infinity as far as GPS, wifi, blu tooth, build quality (like rear cameras not breaking), then ASUS should just bite the bullet and kill the TF201 and give at least early adopters a trade in. That's what it would take to make me happy, and even then they would still have a huge problem with their repair service. But, at least I would have a better chance of not ever having to deal with them.
This would never happen with Asus not because of money but simply because they don't give a f*ck about their customers.
wifesabitch said:
This would never happen with Asus not because of money but simply because they don't give a f*ck about their customers.
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That's honestly how I feel, and I feel that way 100% because of their terrible customer support. I understand things go wrong especially in this fairly new market of Android tablets. That's the time for your customer service to shine. Instead, they show us how much they care about us by having the worst service I've ever heard of.
ASUS Customer service in not. They could give a rat ask about problems with the Prime.
It is not a matter of how big Google is versus Asus. It is simply doing what is right. The Prime is junk. Asus knows it is junk. Fix it, or replace it.
We paid $500 for this tablet and anyone with any common sense would expect value for their money.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/995680316458262533?s=19
I'm tempted to be happy and optimistic about this. But please forgive me if I'll exercise restraint until ZTE makes a statement that everything is back to normal, the OTA servers are back online, etc, etc.
Somebody on Reddit is already claiming that the ban is going to be lifted. Or that in this case, here in XDA, "ZTE is back". Why can nobody read articles carefully? Spreading misinformation is never a good thing. The tweet basically says that both parties are working on a solution. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, ZTE was never gone, it still exist. So "ZTE is back" doesn't make much sense here.
Nevertheless, I'm stocking up on spare usb pcb and a battery in case this stays the way it is and no other, decent phone comes out in the next 2 years I'd want to dump $650+ on.
Lineage is a much better experience all around so any updates no longer get me excited. And there was always reason to be optimistic ZTE could reach a deal as while their transgressions were serious, they are not the same as being tied to Chinese intelligence and the party like Huawei is. The US government still won't use them but banning them outright only killed competition in China which might be good for the US in the long run.
This is the last Chinese phone I will own. Spending less is nice but I think we have reached a point where the battlelines are drawn and people should voting with their dollar. The Axon 7 for $325 was a great deal but Im willing to spend more for a better software experience next time and to support a 'Western' company, even if it is in Taiwan.
I wouldnt consider China an enemy and I marvel at the things we could all accomplish if we put aside our nationalistic garbage, but China will never be like that even if the West was. Fundamentally different views of the world and the future. It's time for Westerners to understand that. China will never be our friends. They dont think like that. It's not about good and evil or anything like that. They just believe they are better and believe they will, and should win. Once you understand Confucianism, you understand China. We either rise to the challenge or fail miserably. As a consumer I can do my small bit. If every Westerner did the same we could start to level the playing field.
And if Google could stop overpricing their Pixel line that would be great. They have zero need to turn a profit. You could easily argue that they should be taking a loss to get their hardware into people's hands in order to improve the inherent issues with Android.
rjt378 said:
Lineage is a much better experience all around so any updates no longer get me excited. And there was always reason to be optimistic ZTE could reach a deal as while their transgressions were serious, they are not the same as being tied to Chinese intelligence and the party like Huawei is. The US government still won't use them but banning them outright only killed competition in China which might be good for the US in the long run.
This is the last Chinese phone I will own. Spending less is nice but I think we have reached a point where the battlelines are drawn and people should voting with their dollar. The Axon 7 for $325 was a great deal but Im willing to spend more for a better software experience next time and to support a 'Western' company, even if it is in Taiwan.
I wouldnt consider China an enemy and I marvel at the things we could all accomplish if we put aside our nationalistic garbage, but China will never be like that even if the West was. Fundamentally different views of the world and the future. It's time for Westerners to understand that. China will never be our friends. They dont think like that. It's not about good and evil or anything like that. They just believe they are better and believe they will, and should win. Once you understand Confucianism, you understand China. We either rise to the challenge or fail miserably. As a consumer I can do my small bit. If every Westerner did the same we could start to level the playing field.
And if Google could stop overpricing their Pixel line that would be great. They have zero need to turn a profit. You could easily argue that they should be taking a loss to get their hardware into people's hands in order to improve the inherent issues with Android.
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Stop being a political s_hit in XDA this not place to practice politics it is a good community where we dev our beloved devices.Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war.BTW if you hate china so much then you should die Cause I bet the thing we use in our day to day life all are made in or assembled in China.So its impossible to live without them.:silly:
Druboo666 said:
Stop being a political s_hit in XDA this not place to practice politics it is a good community where we dev our beloved devices.Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war.BTW if you hate china so much then you should die Cause I bet the thing we use in our day to day life all are made in or assembled in China.So its impossible to live without them.:silly:
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That's a logical and reasonable response.
I lived and worked in China. I dont hate China at all. I just think people in the West should begin to understand China. China wouldnt give a thimble of water to a man on fire. Not because they hate the man on fire, but because they would save the water for themselves because they might need it someday. That's a totally different mentality from the Western mindset that they take advantage of. The best thing we can do is understand China, and all of our competitors. We give away far too much as a result of not understanding and assuming that Western ideals are the dominant ideals, even when capitalism is embraced.
Druboo666 said:
Yes there is a trade war going on with China and US and we are the victim of that war blah blah blah
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If you want to stop the political bull**** on XDA, then stop parroting CNN and going "BUT MUH TRADE WAR!!11" ZTE violated an agreement. Another agreement was set up and they violated that one too. You can only give someone so many chances before you look like a fool.
Everyone should just be hopeful that ZTE isn't out and we might get an actually stable build of oreo that works with all the features of Android, LIKE ENCRYPTION