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Device won't charge off of my portable ISound charger while on the go.
I use the ISound for my Samsung, Nexus, networks etc no problem.
I'm on the go all day and it's a necessity for my mobile devices.
Others have the same with portable chargers?
rockky said:
Device won't charge off of my portable ISound charger while on the go.
I use the ISound for my Samsung, Nexus, networks etc no problem.
I'm on the go all day and it's a necessity for my mobile devices.
Others have the same with portable chargers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not very familiar with the iSound charger, does it provide a high enough Amp output?
When I got my Galaxy Tab 10.1v a couple of years ago, I bought some adapters that feature a resistor and a swap some pins around to ensure the device goes into charge mode and not data mode when plugged into a PC. The resistor enables a higher Amp output than you get from a normal USB port. I've checked ebay recently and found that there are even better adapters out now than what I bought in 2011, much more low profile.
Maybe one of these could help?
RaindancerAU said:
I'm not very familiar with the iSound charger, does it provide a high enough Amp output?
When I got my Galaxy Tab 10.1v a couple of years ago, I bought some adapters that feature a resistor and a swap some pins around to ensure the device goes into charge mode and not data mode when plugged into a PC. The resistor enables a higher Amp output than you get from a normal USB port. I've checked ebay recently and found that there are even better adapters out now than what I bought in 2011, much more low profile.
Maybe one of these could help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
rockky said:
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Had a quick look just now - found the right combo of search terms to use;
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...ter+Adapter+Charger+tablet&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Hope that helps.
Thanks for your reply and link:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...verter+Adapter+Charger+tablet&_sacat=0&_from=
To understand : the Ultra won't charge when I put it's USB cable into that Isound mobile Charger.
Are these like, extentions that I'd add on to my USB cable to make it charge in said charger?!
Thanks for your help
the output opportunity of your mobile power bank to produce the current with enough power Is significant . As example u can see my mobile Iconbit charger which produces two current opportunities: 2.1 A and 1A.
The first allows to charge my phone very fast, the second allows not to lose phone battery chargе during walking with maps enabled.
So, may be your's power bank is not quite good to output good current. may be it was very good in past but battery have lost the capacity and opportunity to produce current.
Also I've throwd to the garbage a lot of adapters which had lost their opportunity to put goodie high current, a lot of famous brands also. During the year and half of Note 1 I've changed five batteries and three wall chargers. some changes I have bought to replace did not charge my phone.
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app
Sergey_TSA said:
the output opportunity of your mobile power bank to produce the current with enough power Is significant . As example u can see my mobile Iconbit charger which produces two current opportunities: 2.1 A and 1A.
The first allows to charge my phone very fast, the second allows not to lose phone battery chargе during walking with maps enabled.
So, may be your's power bank is not quite good to output good current. may be it was very good in past but battery have lost the capacity and opportunity to produce current.
Also I've throwd to the garbage a lot of adapters which had lost their opportunity to put goodie high current, a lot of famous brands also. During the year and half of Note 1 I've changed five batteries and three wall chargers. some changes I have bought to replace did not charge my phone.
Sent from my C6802 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some good points here - particularly about charges and cables to degrade and lose their capability to provide a quality current - I've had to dispose of a few cables and chargers as well.
Still, the adapters that discussed earlier can help to a certain extent.
I just bought two sets of SONICable,The World's Most Advanced Charging Cable, for $49.00. Supposedly, they will increase you charging speed by 2x. It's a crowdfund project, and the cables will supposedly be delivered in March 2015.
I'm not affiliated with the project. I only think it sounds like an exciting product and decided informing the community about it.
Does it work on the same principle as this video for doubling your WiFi speed?
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5cEik2ABY
Well while surely there are better and worse cables, doesn't charging speed depends on the output of the wall piece and the charging circuitry?
On bad cables i get at most 1 Amp to charge the tablet, but with the original samsung cable i do get around 2 amps which is the designed output of the wall piece.
Maybe it works like the "Fast Charge" mode on custom kernels.
Charging is limited by 3 factors
1. Stock charger 5 Volts, then most importantly is the Amps - 2A for typical Samsung charger so going faster then this is unlikely with the stock charger, and tablets can already charge at 1890mA so probably 90% of its rated current.
2. Cable quality and length most Samsung cables are already high-quality and have copper wires with two bigger wires for the 5v and Ground line and they are short length (3-6ft) so they can easily handle 2A output (probably higher).
3. Probably the most important is the phone / tablet, usually they have several circuitry and software (kernel) protections to limit the charging speed for several reasons since lithium-ion / poly are extremely dangerous if they are overcharged or overheated or otherwise improperly charged (you can see videos of people overcharging lithium battery's then tapping them causing a huge fireball )
So it is very unlikely for a cable to achieve better charging speed, it probably just has the Data + - pins shorted to tell the charger / phone to charge at full speed (though this is unnecessary nowadays since most chargers already do this, but it could be beneficial for older phones / tablets)
arcadia2uk said:
I just bought two sets of SONICable,The World's Most Advanced Charging Cable, for $49.00. Supposedly, they will increase you charging speed by 2x. It's a crowdfund project, and the cables will supposedly be delivered in March 2015.
I'm not affiliated with the project. I only think it sounds like an exciting product and decided informing the community about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seriously spent $49 on a usb lead
From the link you supplied:
'When the switch is ON: All of the power is focused on charging, sync/data is disabled'
What, like using a mains charger where there is no sync connection (or buying a cheap charging cable where the data pins aren't connected)
Hes either a bot or someone paid to advertise that "product". It did remind me of "double your network speed" video from youtube where dude wraps one ethernet cable with another one and doubles his internet speed.
I saw this post a while back, and it was immediately clear to me that it was a scam. I can't BELIEVE that they actually raised over $400k on this thing. Indiegogo seems like it's becoming a scammer's conduit to gullible/uninformed buyers.
When did commercial posts get so frequent in here?
ssmr2t said:
When did commercial posts get so frequent in here?
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Click to collapse
Apparently, there's a difference between buying a sd-card on amazon, or a glass protector on amazon compared with a pair of cables on Indiegogo. Although, I can't really see the difference.
Anyway, if and when I receive the cables I will let you know how it worked out.
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
ssmr2t said:
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
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Click to collapse
No news as of yet, who knows maybe it is as suggested a hoax. But, as I'm enjoying gadgets I'll take the risk.
arcadia2uk said:
No news as of yet, who knows maybe it is as suggested a hoax. But, as I'm enjoying gadgets I'll take the risk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep us posted! Im interested in the results.
I'll probably buy when the price goes down.
Seems like an interesting concept. I'd like to see the cable in real-world action. Assuming they actually make it to market, i'll buy when the price goes down.
Believe it, or not, but I actually received my cables last week. The charging speed is substantially improved, but definitely not 2x. However, I still haven't tried charging by connecting over the PC, where this might show up. Anyway, as a fan of gadgets I still satisfied with my purchase.
I'm glad your happy with your purchase.
Charging speed is limited by the circuitry in the tablet itself. There's a limit in the amount of amps it can pull from anything (charger/computer or any USB port). I have an extremely powerful charger so I'm sure I hit the max charging rate of my devices. This cable will not improve that. I'm also sure that it's actually charging faster and drawing more power than my original chargers as some devices act a bit weird when charged fast.
The "twice as fast" charging rate will be the exact same charging rate as you get from a "charge only" cable if (and only if) you connect it to a computer or another device that syncs data. In every other scenario you'll get the exact same charging rate.
Note that your computer typically has a USB port for charging that's capable of drawing more power than the standard 500 mA that USB 1 and 2 offer. (USB3 can draw 900 mA, up to 1500 mA if it's a charging port)
Keep in mind that the stock charger output is 5.3 volts.
Lower impedance cable helps.
Samsung stock cable is good enough, and PNY cable also does a good job.
You can have the same thing on eBay for $6 ...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-smart-c...-Apple-Android-With-V-A-display-/141342314642
A charge only cable so you get maximum charge speed starts at only £5
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-fast-charge-micro-usb-cable/
An choice of USB Charging adapter, but do you really need these?
http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/portapow-fast-charge-data-block-usb-adaptor/
John.
If you have 5 port 8 amp IQ charger, you can charge T520 faster.
ssmr2t said:
Did you get your cables yet? Your OP says they were due in March 2015
Edit: I like this better http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...9QNSmGzx8GP_qMGpQ&sig2=O-5lUKoBFozTFf-A2spM6A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I got my cable, and the 2x works if you charge through your computers USB, as what the cable does is cutting off the communication to charge only. I saw a post at XDA that explain how to do this by yourself in about 5-10 min.
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
awesome, thanks for the response!
I have been looking for a type C to type C cable, any suggestion?
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-6p/general/usb-type-c-vs-usb-3-0-3-1-vs-usb-2-0-t3221676
The best you should get is about 2300-ish mA charging from type A connectors. Chances are you will get less. You will never get 3A from a type A port unless something has gone very wrong. See link for details.
---------- Post added at 11:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 PM ----------
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is correct. Good post. Thanks
Skitals said:
USB data speed will be the same because the Nexus uses USB 2.0 transfer. You won't get fast charging with a type C to type A cable. The type A only has the 4 USB 2.0 pins, whereas fast charging utilizes the power bus of the type-c cable (extra pins). So you will need a type c charger to get full charging speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why is the nexus engineer warning that C to A cables and adapters without the proper resistor will cause the device to attempt to pull 3 amps through the cable and burn up the charger? Seems he is saying pins or no pins it's going to attempt to pull 3 amps.
Using an OEM Samsung fast charger with this cord:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013187HZS/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_eJIpwbAMNJ231
I got these results:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Compared to these results with the OEM Nexus 6P charger:
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Powell730 said:
If I go with, lets say the OnePlus Type C cord, will I still get the faster data transfer speeds/fast charging as if I were using a straight USB type C cable? It seems as if you use a cable that isn't type C on both ends that you wouldn't be able to take advantage of the faster data transfer speeds. I would assume this also applies to the fast charging but I'm not sure...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost any definite answer you get is wrong because Google has decline to say what the did and full testing has not been completed There are 2 parts to this equation.
1. What is possible to deliver over an A to C connection
2. What the phone will do
As to the first, yes you can get 3A over A to C. The problem has been that there just are not any 5V/3A A port chargers out there. Companies have been making "over charging' chargers for years. I've been able to get 2.6Amp to the phone over an A to C charger limited by the charger capability.
As for part 2, the first thing the phone does when a cable is attached is to determine what type of facing port it is attached to. In this case, it will be a Dedicated Charging Port (DCP). It will check voltage on pin CC and determine it is not a C port and therefore not able to negotiate a power contract in that manner. Type C specs then require it to draw no more than default power (500mA) for USB 2.0. If the device wants more current, it is obligated to monitor voltage on the bus to determine if more current is available. Hence, the device should never over draw the charger.
On the charger side, it will monitor the current draw and limit itself via a maximum current setpoint beyond which it will shut down. If the PD (Portable Device) is designed appropriately, it won't ever hit that because it is monitoring Voltage and the voltage drop will tell the PD to limit the current it is drawing to maintain vREF.
What is really unknown is what is the exact trigger for the "Charging Rapidly" in the lock screen. I get it under 3A.
Recommendation: Use A to C if you need multiple charger ports to support other devices. Don't get bent around the axle over getting all 3A. Use C-C if you only need one port. And in the future, the whole world will be Type C so your investment will last longer. But don't believe that 3A will be widely used. It is a design requirement in the Type C spec, but not a power standard in the USB spec. For example, the Lumia 950XL and Sony Z5 both are Type C and are reported to use Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. which top out at 2A at 5V (though can do 12V/1.5A).
Good Test - Get a Male Type C to Female Micro B adapter. Put it on the end of the Type C to Micro B cable plugged into the Google supplied Charger and see what you get!
dwswager said:
Almost any definite answer you get is wrong because Google has decline to say what the did and full testing has not been completed There are 2 parts to this equation.
1. What is possible to deliver over an A to C connection
2. What the phone will do
As to the first, yes you can get 3A over A to C. The problem has been that there just are not any 5V/3A A port chargers out there. Companies have been making "over charging' chargers for years. I've been able to get 2.6Amp to the phone over an A to C charger limited by the charger capability.
As for part 2, the first thing the phone does when a cable is attached is to determine what type of facing port it is attached to. In this case, it will be a Dedicated Charging Port (DCP). It will check voltage on pin CC and determine it is not a C port and therefore not able to negotiate a power contract in that manner. Type C specs then require it to draw no more than default power (500mA) for USB 2.0. If the device wants more current, it is obligated to monitor voltage on the bus to determine if more current is available. Hence, the device should never over draw the charger.
On the charger side, it will monitor the current draw and limit itself via a maximum current setpoint beyond which it will shut down. If the PD (Portable Device) is designed appropriately, it won't ever hit that because it is monitoring Voltage and the voltage drop will tell the PD to limit the current it is drawing to maintain vREF.
What is really unknown is what is the exact trigger for the "Charging Rapidly" in the lock screen. I get it under 3A.
Recommendation: Use A to C if you need multiple charger ports to support other devices. Don't get bent around the axle over getting all 3A. Use C-C if you only need one port. And in the future, the whole world will be Type C so your investment will last longer. But don't believe that 3A will be widely used. It is a design requirement in the Type C spec, but not a power standard in the USB spec. For example, the Lumia 950XL and Sony Z5 both are Type C and are reported to use Qualcomm Quick Charge 2.0. which top out at 2A at 5V (though can do 12V/1.5A).
Good Test - Get a Male Type C to Female Micro B adapter. Put it on the end of the Type C to Micro B cable plugged into the Google supplied Charger and see what you get!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Google supplied type c to a cable says charging slowly when plugged into a PC which makes sense since type a should only pull 500ma from the port
The orzly cable that Benson tested shows me it says charging rapidly in that same port..
My other cable that I bought from a local electronics store shows "charging" only.. What does that mean? Is that a good sign that it won't damage up my port/charger/phone?
Thanks
All this is so confusing for first gen adopters to these types of cables haha
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
xxsashixx said:
The Google supplied type c to a cable says charging slowly when plugged into a PC which makes sense since type a should only pull 500ma from the port
The orzly cable that Benson tested shows me it says charging rapidly in that same port..
My other cable that I bought from a local electronics store shows "charging" only.. What does that mean? Is that a good sign that it won't damage up my port/charger/phone?
Thanks
All this is so confusing for first gen adopters to these types of cables haha
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What this tells me 1st and foremost is don't go by what the lock screen says.
A USB 2.0 port on a computer motherboard is only going to output 500mA as you found out. A USB 3.0 port on a motherboard can output up to 900mA.
This is what Benson is saying. The Orzly cable is improperly designed such that it signals to the PD that it is 3A so I suspect that is why the 6P is showing Charging Rapidly.
Best way to test what is going on is to use a multimeter to test the current flow, but that means cutting open the wires or using a special plug with terminals. The next best thing is to use a battery app to see what the app says the draw is. This won't be as accurate and you should allow a minute for the device to come to full draw and the app to update.
Personally, I am almost 2 days on a charge where my previous phone required a late afternoon recharge so I am not all that keyed up over fast charging. It is nice, but as long as my phone is usable, not as big a deal because I recharge every night.
dwswager said:
What this tells me 1st and foremost is don't go by what the lock screen says.
A USB 2.0 port on a computer motherboard is only going to output 500mA as you found out. A USB 3.0 port on a motherboard can output up to 900mA.
This is what Benson is saying. The Orzly cable is improperly designed such that it signals to the PD that it is 3A so I suspect that is why the 6P is showing Charging Rapidly.
Best way to test what is going on is to use a multimeter to test the current flow, but that means cutting open the wires or using a special plug with terminals. The next best thing is to use a battery app to see what the app says the draw is. This won't be as accurate and you should allow a minute for the device to come to full draw and the app to update.
Personally, I am almost 2 days on a charge where my previous phone required a late afternoon recharge so I am not all that keyed up over fast charging. It is nice, but as long as my phone is usable, not as big a deal because I recharge every night.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about fast charging I just want to make sure the cable doesn't damage my phone from overcharging or what not.
Plus all the good cables are either oos or won't ship to Canada and are overly expensive..
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
xxsashixx said:
I don't care about fast charging I just want to make sure the cable doesn't damage my phone from overcharging or what not.
Plus all the good cables are either oos or won't ship to Canada and are overly expensive..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then no worries. The Google Guy's whole point about the cables was that the phone might try to draw more current than the charger can supply and damage the Upstream Facing Port (read that as the charger). But any decent charger has overcurrent protection so neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger.
dwswager said:
Then no worries. ... But any decent charger has overcurrent protection so neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to take exception to this. You keep saying people will be fine, there are protections in place, etc... But I have serious doubts if these protections are meant to be engaged every time a user plugs in. It's like saying it's OK to drive 120mph in a busy 45mph zone, because I'm wearing a seatbelt.
Further, I think you are doing a disservice to the community by posting that it's OK to use products that are clearly out of specification. If pulling more current than a charger could handle wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't be designed with some type of protection measures. As such, saying "neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger" is patently false.
Elnrik said:
I have to take exception to this. You keep saying people will be fine, there are protections in place, etc... But I have serious doubts if these protections are meant to be engaged every time a user plugs in. It's like saying it's OK to drive 120mph in a busy 45mph zone, because I'm wearing a seatbelt.
Further, I think you are doing a disservice to the community by posting that it's OK to use products that are clearly out of specification. If pulling more current than a charger could handle wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't be designed with some type of protection measures. As such, saying "neither the phone, nor the charger are in any danger" is patently false.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, I think all devices should be designed in spec and wish the USB Forum would more strictly enforce the specifications. But the 6P is obligated, when it can't negotiate a valid power contract which it can't do with a USB Type A port, to use default power and if it wants more current to monitor the voltage on the bus to determine if more power is available. Hence, if it immediately begins drawing 3A, or it does not reduce current draw when the buss drops below vREF, then the 6P itself is out of spec!
Both sides of the equation, Device and Charger have responsibilities and protections in place. If we were discussing plugging a 10A charger into a 3A device, I would be a little more concerned. But we are discussing plugging a 2A charger into a device capable of using 0-3A.
I also would be a little more concerned if dozens of people weren't already using these cables with less than 3A Type A chargers with no problem. The phones and chargers are doing what they are supposed to do.
That it's perhaps the single most disjointed rebuttal I think I've ever read. It also completely deflects from my point that you are giving bad advice and doing the community a disservice... But hey, I'll play along. Let's break down your reply into intelligible pieces to see if there is any sense to be had.
dwswager said:
Look, I think all devices should be designed in spec and wish the USB Forum would more strictly enforce the specifications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
But the 6P is obligated,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All components using licensed USB technology are obligated to follow specifications.
when it can't negotiate a valid power contract which it can't do with a USB Type A port,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It can negotiate power with Type-A ports just fine using cables which follow specifications. The port and the phone are not at issue here, no matter how much you want them to be.
to use default power and if it wants more current to monitor the voltage on the bus to determine if more power is available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is monitoring voltage, but it cannot know current ratings of the system it is connected to without a marker or sign post, which is where the out of spec cable is defeating this process.
Hence, if it immediately begins drawing 3A, or it does not reduce current draw when the buss drops below vREF, then the 6P itself is out of spec!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the 6p is out of spec itself when it is being told, by an out of spec cable, that it is safe to draw 3A?
Both sides of the equation, Device and Charger have responsibilities and protections in place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Conviently forgetting the cable.
If we were discussing plugging a 10A charger into a 3A device, I would be a little more concerned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that would be safe because the 10A device could safely provide 3A.
But we are discussing plugging a 2A charger into a device capable of using 0-3A.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which is unsafe, because MATH. 3 > 2
I also would be a little more concerned if dozens of people weren't already using these cables with less than 3A Type A chargers with no problem. The phones and chargers are doing what they are supposed to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is just something fundamentally wrong with this way of thinking. I'd be a little more concerned if we had any damaged property, fires, or deaths, but since we haven't yet, everything must be OK. That's great.
Elnrik said:
That it's perhaps the single most disjointed rebuttal I think I've ever read. It also completely deflects from my point that you are giving bad advice and doing the community a disservice... But hey, I'll play along. Let's break down your reply into intelligible pieces to see if there is any sense to be had.
Agreed.
All components using licensed USB technology are obligated to follow specifications.
It can negotiate power with Type-A ports just fine using cables which follow specifications. The port and the phone are not at issue here, no matter how much you want them to be.
It is monitoring voltage, but it cannot know current ratings of the system it is connected to without a marker or sign post, which is where the out of spec cable is defeating this process.
So the 6p is out of spec itself when it is being told, by an out of spec cable, that it is safe to draw 3A?
Conviently forgetting the cable.
Well, that would be safe because the 10A device could safely provide 3A.
Which is unsafe, because MATH. 3 > 2
There is just something fundamentally wrong with this way of thinking. I'd be a little more concerned if we had any damaged property, fires, or deaths, but since we haven't yet, everything must be OK. That's great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The USB Type A port has only 4 pins. VDD (+5V), D- (Data-)-, D+ (Data+) and GND (Ground). No way for a Type C device to use the CC channel to negotiate. It knows it is plugged into a legacy facing port.
The PD knows if more power is available or not by monitoring the voltage of the bus. If the PD trys to draw more power than the charger is capable of delivering, then the bus voltage will deviate from reference specs. As long as the charger is capable of supplying the current requested, it will be able to maintain the voltage within reference specifications. This is why the Tronsmart guy says his 2.4A will deliver 2.7A. It has enough margin capacity to maintain proper voltage over it's rated amperage up to about 2.7A.
I love my 6P and think it is the best Android phone on the market. But there are things that could be improved. I would like 2 fingerprint sensors, one back and one front, but if you are only giving me one on a phone this big, it would be better on the front. And 5V/3A was a mistake. It is a cheaper solution to faster charging. What does it say when the 2 port charger from Google is not 30W and they have no 15Watt (5V/3A) car charger available at all.
dwswager said:
As long as the charger is capable of supplying the current requested, it will be able to maintain the voltage within reference specifications. This is why the Tronsmart guy says his 2.4A will deliver 2.7A. It has enough margin capacity to maintain proper voltage over it's rated amperage up to about 2.7A.
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Great for Tronsmart. Not so good for users when they use that cable to transfer data or charge on a laptop, USB hub, or other data centric / non-charger type device and the current ramps up to 3A on a generic USB 2.0, 500mA, Type A port and fries something.
You're arguing that the phone should monitor what it could / should be able to pull from the port. I'm arguing that the USB specs are more complicated that that, which are the specs the phone follows, that the legacy ports and charging protocols follow, and is the current real-life facts of the situtation - not wishful thinking or hypothesizing of what it should or could do.
Elnrik said:
Great for Tronsmart. Not so good for users when they use that cable to transfer data or charge on a laptop, USB hub, or other data centric / non-charger type device and the current ramps up to 3A on the USB 2.0 500mA Type A port and fries something.
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When you get a report of a port getting fried, will you please post it here. The more data we have, the better.
dwswager said:
When you get a report of a port getting fried, will you please post it here. The more data we have, the better.
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*sigh* People, don't use non-complaint cables, ok?
A Google engineer has publicly stated in several places that it is not safe and has even posted instructions on how to test for it.
PC Magazine even ran an article on it.
Hell... Common sense should tell you messing around with improper charging currents and voltages isn't safe.
Elnrik said:
*sigh* People, don't use non-complaint cables, ok?
A Google engineer has publicly stated in several places that it is not safe and has even posted instructions on how to test for it.
PC Magazine even ran an article on it.
Hell... Common sense should tell you messing around with improper charging currents and voltages isn't safe.
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*Sigh* This reminds me of all the negative Nexus 6P case reviews concerning the Laser Auto Focus by people without the phone or the case. They heard something on the internet and parroted it in review after review. Even the PC Magazine online entry is only a news items that repeats Benson's statements. No reporting of incidents, no comment from any company, including Google.
Has Google made an official statement? If this was such a big issue, does it not behoove Google to warn it's users?
I do not support manufacturers making out of spec equipment, including cables. Only that this is a whole lot of concern without a single verified case of incident.
According to this article http://phandroid.com/2015/11/06/nexus-6p-quick-charge/
The hardware is there, not sure if the logs are helpful to get it enabled back.
yangqi said:
According to this article http://phandroid.com/2015/11/06/nexus-6p-quick-charge/
The hardware is there, not sure if the logs are helpful to get it enabled back.
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Already charges as fast, or faster than qc.
Why bother.
No point, it has a non-proprietary fast charge, which is what you should be wanting and praising them for doing.
Useful as an intermediate step for those of us who have invested in a number of qc2 Chargers.
Have raised this before, the hardware all seems to be there, so there may be a way to enable it in the future at some point.
Also, for those saying that the USB-C native is faster, you're sadly mistaken. USB-C is 5V/3A = 15W , obviously take away some for loss, heat, resistance. QC 2.0 can support 9V/2A (18W), 12V/1.5A (18W) both just a touch higher than USB-C - albeit not by a massive margin.
Im in the same boat as above, I have 2 QC2.0 desktop chargers and a carcharger too, would be lovely to use them with a good USB-A to C cable and support those speeds.
Phazmos said:
Already charges as fast, or faster than qc.
Why bother.
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Only on stock wall charger, which means you can't fast charge using qc2 charger that a lot of people already own.
yangqi said:
Only on stock wall charger, which means you can't fast charge using qc2 charger that a lot of people already own.
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Once c gets fully adopted, which shouldn't be long, chargers will be cheap as dirt.
I can see the bummer aspect if you've already invested in qc though. At least it won't cost much to switch.
Phazmos said:
Once c gets fully adopted, which shouldn't be long, chargers will be cheap as dirt.
I can see the bummer aspect if you've already invested in qc though. At least it won't cost much to switch.
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it has nothing to do with usb-c, c will work with any charger. This charger won't get cheaper if no other phone requires that 3A output.
yangqi said:
it has nothing to do with usb-c, c will work with any charger. This charger won't get cheaper if no other phone requires that 3A output.
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When everyone is using c - and along with that faster data rates, and fast charge - everyone and their grandmother will be making chargers meeting c fast charge specs. And when that happens, price will drop like a big rock.
But ya never know what some enterprising dev may come up with. I'm sure if possible, it'll be done.
I wouldn't chuck those chargers yet. Although might be better to try and sell them now while you can before qc fades away and they are worthless.
bongostl said:
Useful as an intermediate step for those of us who have invested in a number of qc2 Chargers.
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Phazmos said:
When everyone is using c - and along with that faster data rates, and fast charge - everyone and their grandmother will be making chargers meeting c fast charge specs. And when that happens, price will drop like a big rock.
But ya never know what some enterprising dev may come up with. I'm sure if possible, it'll be done.
I wouldn't chuck those chargers yet. Although might be better to try and sell them now while you can before qc fades away and they are worthless.
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What makes you think QC will fade away? QC 3.0 looks promising, and will likely be standard fitment to next gen Qualcomm powered phones, given they could also utilise USB-C connectors, it looks like it could be around for a while?
designgears said:
No point, it has a non-proprietary fast charge, which is what you should be wanting and praising them for doing.
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This. Exactly this.
Also, think about the companies that have adopted USB Type-C already. Microsoft. Google. Intel. Asus. MSI. Apple. HP. Dell. And so on and so forth.
If what has you worried is not seeing a lot of third party makers of Type-C equipment on Amazon, just keep in mind we are in the first few quarters of adoption. It's going to take a little while to spin up world wide production of all the millions of little usb products we use.
As a wise man once said: R. E. L. A. X. Relax.
sephstyler said:
What makes you think QC will fade away? QC 3.0 looks promising, and will likely be standard fitment to next gen Qualcomm powered phones, given they could also utilise USB-C connectors, it looks like it could be around for a while?
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C above
Phazmos said:
C above
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I have.
My point is still relevant though, I know USB-C (PD) is capable of 100W or whatever, but in its current use on our phones it is 15W.
QC 2.0 is already doing 18W , QC 3.0 can do 60W (INOV). QC also supports the USB-C interface, meaning in a few months, you could get a phone which uses a USB-C interface, using QC 3.0 charging at beyond 18W.....
QC can live harmoniously with a USB-C connector. If our hardware technically has support, the more the merrier.
Phazmos said:
When everyone is using c - and along with that faster data rates, and fast charge - everyone and their grandmother will be making chargers meeting c fast charge specs. And when that happens, price will drop like a big rock.
But ya never know what some enterprising dev may come up with. I'm sure if possible, it'll be done.
I wouldn't chuck those chargers yet. Although might be better to try and sell them now while you can before qc fades away and they are worthless.
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Lol. By the time this happens either a new spec is out or we have the Nexus 6SP (Super Premium). Anyways options are always nice.
Sorry folks, but the "debate" is boring me.
Back to my cigar and my coffee!
sephstyler said:
Have raised this before, the hardware all seems to be there, so there may be a way to enable it in the future at some point.
Also, for those saying that the USB-C native is faster, you're sadly mistaken. USB-C is 5V/3A = 15W , obviously take away some for loss, heat, resistance. QC 2.0 can support 9V/2A (18W), 12V/1.5A (18W) both just a touch higher than USB-C - albeit not by a massive margin.
Im in the same boat as above, I have 2 QC2.0 desktop chargers and a carcharger too, would be lovely to use them with a good USB-A to C cable and support those speeds.
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Your assumption is that QC can maintain the 9V and 12V charging states as long as Type-C can maintain its high amp charging before it has to taper off. I'm not saying it doesn't but nobody knows the exact states each charger goes through as different battery levels, battery temperatures, etc.
Phazmos said:
Sorry folks, but the "debate" is boring me.
Back to my cigar and my coffee!
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The point of this post is not to "fight" over which option is better, time will tell. But for now wouldn't it be perfect if nexus 6p can support both google's fast charging and QC2.0?
Phazmos said:
C above
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sluflyer06 said:
Your assumption is that QC can maintain the 9V and 12V charging states as long as Type-C can maintain its high amp charging before it has to taper off. I'm not saying it doesn't but nobody knows the exact states each charger goes through as different battery levels, battery temperatures, etc.
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Absolutely true, but I'd like to have the option - afterall, that's why I like android - choice and options
yangqi said:
The point of this post is not to "fight" over which option is better, time will tell. But for now wouldn't it be perfect if nexus 6p can support both google's fast charging and QC2.0?
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Absolutely true again. Having the freedom to use whichever standard ends up winning, means we win in the end.
So back on track, discussion topic to see if we can get QC 2.0 working!
Since I'm not as technically savy as our amazing ROM devs, I have to wonder if this is something that could be enabled. Maybe with a kernel?
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
https://www.androidcentral.com/dash-charge has a good article on this.
---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------
Also, supposedly it's the same tech as http://www.oppo.com/en/technology/vooc - and anything "VOOC" branded will provide the same "dash charge" speeds.
Dougshell said:
Do we know for sure why it is that dash charging only works work the dash cable. Is it a DRM issue or a design element that needs to be licensed.
I'm not too stressed out because I plan to use a standard usb c cable for overnight charging but I am curious what is actually going on inside this charger.
I am quite familiar with OP official response concerning the matter, but given their track record of non answers, I'm assuming this situation is no different.
In other words I am curious what stops a company from releasing a cable that would in fact work. Possibly with the addition of some end user kernel changes. I understand this would be slightly impractical for a large company like Aukey or Anker to release a cable for one phone (that people could not use straight out of the box) however, my curiosity is still there
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Simple Answer to this is the proprietary high amp usb type c cable which is supplied with the stock 5v 4amp power brick work well hand in hand, it is the way Oneplus has made this..one cannot work without the other so it is packaged deal..take it or leave..unless you are willing to compromise DASH Charge you can use any other type C cable and power brick adaptor
On a standard type-c (USB 3.1) cable connected to my PC, the phone slow charges. My other devices fast charge on this cable.
The other devices slow charge when connected to Dash cable and charger.
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
My advice would be to never use Dash gear with other devices.
Elnrik said:
It leads me to think some very non-standards conforming USB tech is going on in the Dash gear, enough to make Benson Leung sick to his stomach. This isn't new to OnePlus, see https://plus.google.com/+BensonLeung/posts/JmcU4rA1csh
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AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
tobby88 said:
AFAIK this non-compliance thing has been there only in the first shipped cables and was fixed later on. So today's devices (this is already 2 years ago) should be compatible to USB standards and therefore other devices should load their battery at normal speed (not dash-speed) with the dash cables and dash plugs.
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Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
zige said:
Amswer: OP5 doenst support any other quick charge methods (aka. QC 2.0/3.0, Adaptive Charging, Super Charging etc). It only supports normal charge or dash charge (& Vooc as dash is based on Vooc).
Also you should remember that different phones shows differently charging methods. Example Oneplus can maybe show normal 2A slow and Samsung as normal charge. Nexus 6P will show regular 3A charging as fast charging, Oneplus shows it regular charge.
For me if i use other C-cables (non-Dash charge one) it shows just "charging".
Regarding to Benson case... Original OP2 cable was non-standard. It didnt contain regular 56ohm thing. Oneplus fixed it later and dash charge cable is using standard things and also only for 3/3T/5 dash charge properties. For other phone you can use it without problems like use it to charge QC3.0 phones etc.
Sent from my OnePlus5 using XDA Labs
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My point isn't so much about the cable as it is the device itself. It is a USB type-c device that doesn't conform to type-c USB standards.
There will be a plethora of usb-c ports on computers and chargers going forward. They are included on every new model of Apple, PC motherboard, and OEM PC - so type-c adoption is there and real. By ignoring these standards and producing a product with a proprietary design they are ostracizing their devices, and by extension their users, from simple and convenient charging methods. It ensures lots of sales of Dash chargers though.
It's a **** move straight from the Apple playbook. Apple made billions from the 30 pin to lightning connector change, and they will do it again with the lightning to Type-C change.
This Oppo/OP Dash charger isn't something consumers should be championing. It's not something Oppo/OP should be forcing on consumers either.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
There is also the very important difference between voltage and amperage, voltage is pushed to devices so it's always important that what you are using within the voltage required by the device. Amperage on the other hand is pulled by the device so the charger will allow the device to pull as much amperage as it needs as long as it doesn't go over it's own capacity. Think about your standard US outlet, it works at 120 Volts and at either 15 to 20 amps, you can connect as many 120V devices to it as long as you don't exceed its amperage.
That being said, the reason other usb cables don't work on the dash charger block is because the usb A side probably has different resistors, One + cables probably have higher resistors than regular, run of the mill usb C-A cables. That was the issue with the first cables that came out a few years ago, they had pull-up resistors with the wrong Ohm rating.
Here is a link to a PDF file explaining USB C Power Specs, keep in mind though that the eventual idea is to only use USB C-C cables and not the USB C-A cables that are the cause of so much headaches.
HueleSnaiL said:
I don't think your statement is accurate, the newer USB C Power Delivery specs allows voltages up to 20 volts and amperages up to 5 amps, the dash charger specs use 5 volts on 4 amps, well within USB C PD specs. The fact that their technology is proprietary does not mean it's not standards compliant.
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Click to collapse
The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
Elnrik said:
The listed power specs are only half the picture. The negotiation between devices is critical in getting those power numbers. That a OP5 can't draw above 900mA on a fully compliant 3.1 cable from a PD capable Type-C port shows it's not compliant. Its not negotiating power draw the way a standard Type-C device should.
And yes, I've already read all the spec docs. Thanks though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone itself doesn't have to comply to anything, the chargers and cables do since they are the ones providing the charge. The standards are there to determine thresholds on how much and how little current they can work with. The circuitry on the phone and battery are the ones who tell the charger how much current they need to charge the battery without warming it too much or overcharging it. Different combinations of chargers and cables will give you a lot of different charging speeds but that's because there are so many chargers and cables with different ratings that devices err on the side of caution when they can't recognize the charger that it's being plugged into them. It's kind of a unfortunate thing that companies like Motorola, Huawei, OnePlus and Qualcomm use different charging specs but all of them work within the 15 to 20 watts of power for fast charging, so it's not a really big difference.
The reason for the difference in charging speeds between the dash charger/cable and other chargers is that 1 + charger offloads the current regulation to the charger itself rather than leaving current regulation to the phone, like other fast charging devices, that's why 1 + phones fast charge at cooler temperatures than other fast charging technologies.
Now, why your phone doesn't go above 900mA on a regular cable is beyond me, the first photo I attached is of my phone connected to the dash charger via this cable and the second one is of the same cable connected to this wall outlet.
Elnrik said:
Should, but I don't think it is. Q: why would the OP5 not fast charge over a normal type-c connection if it were standards compliant? Answer: it doesn't comply with standards.
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That's a fallacy. To comply with the standards does not mean, that everything is exactly the same. The USB-standard is a little bit more complex than just "pin 1 of one end has to be connected to pin 1 of the other end". The USB-standard defines what is allowed, so no devices will get damaged and to ensure a "minimum" data and power connectivity of let's say at least USB 2.0.
That's what these cables and chargers offer: They don't violate the USB standards. They allow a data connection with USB 2.0 also for non OP-devices. They also allow "normal power" (5V 500mA). They don't damage other devices. They just "work" as they should. But they offer "additional extras" (dash charging) when all three parts (charger, cable, phone) are compatible.
So they comply with the standards while offering additional features and that means, that other cables/chargers, which also comply with the standards but don't offer the extras, won't be able to dash charge.
Anyone tried to see whether using the oneplus cables on QC devices + QC wall plug supports Quick Charging?
I get 2a off my 3a rated PD c to c cables and 38w PD charger.
The only PD compatible android chipset I know of is made by mediatek at present.