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I am so feed up with people on this board that think they are entitled and better than us to ask a question that has been asked a million times, instead of searching. It is only getting worse. Now that leakers have root, ppl from androidforum (where the mods treat them like babies and shield them) are flooding this forum with repeated threads and posts. We are not helping them by answering the questions for them. We need to stop this! I for one will no longer give the answer after a smart @$$ reply. I will only leave the smart @$$ comment in.
For those that are lazy and read this. Why do you think you are better than any of us that use search, trial and error? If yuo dont understand it, and cant search, then dont do it. Plain and simple.
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
cpupeli1 said:
I'd say don't answer them. I myself am not educated at all in rooting and could answer a decent amount of questions I see.
So....rather than looking up their question to see if they could have done the same thing previous to them making a new thread....don't
By doing this we'll at least take some slack off from the moderators from closing unnecessary threads bashing foolish OP's....and instead let them focus on real questions and site maintenance. I feel doing otherwise will lead to more silly threads and more attention to these threads a.k.a. bashing them you know.
Also we need not let this thread turn into ANYTHING like XDA vs. androidforums because it still is a teaching/learning community, some people just need to work/search harder before they make threads.
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I am not trying to make it a af vs xda. Was just giving an example of how things are there. Whole point of my rant/post was people need to search and ppl need to stop helping ppl that dont search. But just putting that wouldnt have felt better after typing.
I am totally with you droidkevlar. I am no senior member or dev or anything like that. I'm just a regular user who is fortunate enough to have devs like you working to make our phones great. I posted this in a thanks thread, but I suppose I could have posted a new thread like you did.
Also, I just want to stress the importance of SEARCHING AND READING!!!! I made the mistake early on of just either creating a new thread or posting in the wrong thread just so I wouldn't have to read to find the answer. THAT WAS FREAKIN STUPID ON MY PART!!! I wish I would have just read up on everything I wanted to know in the beginning. I would have saved myself a ton of headaches and resets. I would have also learned more than what I know now. I now know that if I want to ask a question, to just search for it first. I can't count the times that someone else has asked the same questions that have been answered countless times. And if I'm wanting to try a script, or change my lock screen or something along those lines, IT HELPS TO READ ALL OF THE POSTS IN THAT PARTICULAR THREAD particularly because most likely, someone with your setup has encountered some sort of problem, did some troubleshooting, and posted a fix for it.
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the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
Jp50 said:
the new guys need to stop posting help threads in the dev forum for one.
I don't see a huge problem if its kept to the general section. Maybe even a sticky thread for newbies where they can see links to threads for most commonly asked questions and they can post some questions in that thread only.
This way it keeps it all compartmentalized and separated from the rest of the forum. We can direct all the new guys there. If any of the more experienced guys who want to help, they can do so in that thread only.
I understand how too many newbs can clutter up a forum pretty quick. But a lot of this stuff even after searching and reading still leaves a lot of questions, until you absorb the whole concept of this phone/os/rooting culture.
If we don't help some of the new users, we will end up with more threads about how they bricked their phones and then the real flame wars will start.
Keep it in one area. It has to be dealt with, we can't ignore them. We all gain if we share some knowledge, but lay down some ground rules beforehand.
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I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
droidkevlar said:
I agree 100%. I was a newb before. But I always search first before posting. Even to this day, I 2X to make sure I searched correctly before posting on here.
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you were a big help to me and without you i would be s.o.l.
the newbie thing isn't going away and dealing with it in a way that satisfies everyone makes the most sense.
I learned alot in the last few weeks. I pretty much spend all my time here now. I'm willing to help with some basic rooting tips for any of the real new guys.
You were right, this phone will consume your life!
I has a question.
What is rootz? and hows to I gets it??
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
Hungry Man said:
No thanks. I've been using the internet long enough to know that people don't change and that being a **** about things doesn't help anyone. I'd rather actually provide something for the community other than "USE THE SEARCH" and tell them what they need to know while reminding them that the search function would have just saved everyone the time.
If you really care that much don't go into their topics, this is hardly a bustling forum with a thousand posts an hour clogging the thing, a few **** topics where someone gets confused really has no effect on us. YES they should learn, but like I said being a **** does nothing about it.
My 2 cents.
P.S. I love your themes.
P.S.S. I always used the search lol
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Check out Kaosfroyo thread....now tell me that out of those 4k+ post, 1k or so isnt dumb questions being asked over and over and over. That is just 1 thread. They feel entitled and dont want to search. Its the same kids that blamed devs for them putting leak on their phones and not letting them have root until now. This was more of a rant more than anything. As I have grown feed up with reading the same thing over and over and over and over. Perfect example is my threads. Even though in big, bold, red letters saying dont flash via recovery my MM's, they complain. I mean, its plain as day and they still screw it up.
And thanks for liking my theme. Only reason I made a Froyo one is so many liked the OG Kevlar Mash.
KF as an example, half the posts in that topic if not more are literally just spam or talking about random ****. I don't care because whatever people are having a nice chat but if anything that's even worse because it's absolutely irrellevant to the topic. Like I said, I've got no problem with it and am up for a chat any time.
But I see what you're saying. There is a difference though between asking legitimate questions that can be answered with a search and asking dumb questions that have been answered right there in the topic, no search even required. There really isn't any excuse when people ask questions that are answered right in the first post. I hate all of the posts in the dev stick where it plainly says "DO NOT POST IN HERE UNLESS YOU ARE MAKING A SUGGESTION" and three people so far have actually posted there just asking random questions... it's a bit ridiculous.
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
Hungry Man said:
I just feel like rather than telling someone off for asking a question it's best to just educate them and let them know how to use a forum. Not everyone is used to being on a forum after all.
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I both agree and disagree with the arguments made here. Personally, I don't ask too many questions because I try to conduct thorough research on my own knowing that somewhere someone else has asked the question before and it must be answered somehow (which is why I don't post too much). I'm horrible at using the forum search, though. Google is much better and it will actually bring up XDA and AF forum posts in the search (amongst other items and forums so that's my search of choice).
Some people are not quite as "internet savvy" and I agree that many are lazy, however personally I think if you can't perform a simple google search you have no business messing with technology at all.
I understand people want to learn and sometimes if you're just starting out you don't know where to start in which case a simple tactfully answered question with a push in the right direction towards research resources would be much more appropriate than "use the search, newb" but generally you can differentiate those with a genuine willingness & aptitude to learn & who may just need some guidance, and those who are just too ignorant or lazy to guide themselves.
That's just my $0.02.
It doesn't matter how many times you tell people to search. If your on any forum at all there are always going to be lots of people posting multiple threads that have already been answered. I'm not saying its ok just inevitable.
Sent from my leaked rooted HTC Droid Eris with Sense-Able 3.1 using Swype
I am pretty much on the same page with digitaljeannie on this one. However, a lot of us gloss over the fact that a lot of people just don't know how to search for stuff, or are just absolutely not tech savvy at all. The idea of trying to do anything outside of "the norm" on something phone or computer oriented scares them. If computers are confusing to you, the last thing you want to do is start messing with programs and such that can potentially make your phone inoperable. I walked a gentleman through the process of rooting, and he absolutely could not take a step without me telling him what to do. He wasn't even sure what a zip file was, so trying to do command line prompts pretty much terrified him without someone being there to tell him what to put in, baby step, by baby step. Now, just because he was clueless, doesn't mean he shouldn't enjoy being rooted. Also, being good at searching for stuff is a skill that a lot of you might not even realize you are good at, as it seems natural. However, I have came across quite a few people who are intelligent in other things, but can't find stuff online worth a hoot. I'm often going behind people who say I can't find this info on such and such, and I'll have it in like 10 minutes. Sure there are tons of lazy people who want you to do the work, but it's a shame to paint the same broad stroke for everyone...
I don't think it's really fair to say "If you can't do one thing you shouldn't do the other." I mean I can barely manage a google maps search to get where I want to go but I can do minor programming and know more about hardware than anyone else I know. People shouldn't be stuck with an unrooted eris ever lol and whether they are into computers or not they should have the right to root it and use the phone the way they want to.
not for nothin..... this is the 4th seperate "rant" post Ive read this week on this very topic......... physician heal thyself
While all of you make very good points. I just feel like if they cant search or are too scared, then maybe like the other 70%+ people that dont root their phone, they shouldnt either. And if they complain about its functions, then they shouldnt have bought the phone. Get an iPhone or BlackBerry. Android OS is meant for tech savy ppl IMO. I love Android more than my wife but at work when they asked what phones to get, I said iPhone. Just because users here are not very smart...even thought they have PhD's, lol
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
Hungry Man said:
I think the idea that Android OS is for the tech savy only is a bit of a dangerous rumor that's pretty unjustified. I went from not having any smartphone to going to android 1.6 and it really is quite userfriendly. Tap icon to open, tap and hold for more options, tap and drag to move; these are the basic movements that set the stage for the entire phone, there's nothing fancy.
Apple basically puts out to web blogs (*cough gizmodo endgadget cough*) these rumors that Android OS is far less user friendly than iOS but really anyone can figure it out very quickly.
iPhones are simpler only in the sense that they treat their users with super kiddy gloves, no true multitasking, one button, very simple functionality by removing complex functionality. But if you're an unrooted android user there's really very little you can do to mess up your phone that you could not already do to your iphone.
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Let me re-word that. The ERIS is for more of the tech savy. Reason I say that is because it is kind of a slow phone stock. Once rooted, bloatware removed and OC'd, it rocks.
I gotcha =p
While there are many reasons one might want a smartphone, my chief reason for wanting an android smartphone was ideological: software should be free/ capable devices shouldn't be hobbled/ users' right to understand and control their devices, etc. I'm a total n00b in the scheme of things, but I've been trying to gradually gain an understanding of how everything works, and (for me) screwing things up is often the best to learn. The vibrant was an excellent choice for me, I've had it since the end of summer and have been having a lot of fun seeing what I can do with it while following the dev community here. So after flashing lord knows how many roms/kernels/modems etc in the past few months with mixed results (some went smoothly as anticipated, others not so much lol), this is the big question on my mind: What rules of thumb can help me avoid being a n00b forever?
In the threads about almost all roms/kernels, there are countless "KTHX DUDE IS THIS SAFE TO FLASH OVER XXXXXXX THAT I'M RUNNING???? AND EVEN THO THIS POST IS 39 SECONDS OLD, HOW IS BATTERY???"
Not that i'm even allowed to post in the vibrant android dev forum atm, but when I am, I don't wanna be that guy. So, other than trial by fire or waiting to see how more intrepid members have fared, how do you figure out the answer to that question? I'm assuming system build (i.e. KA2/KB1/etc...not sure if that's what to call it) has something to do with it, as well as filesystem configuration...but that's not specific enough for me to establish anything other than that I should really make a nandroid backup JIC...
Any helpful rules of thumb? I know getting a better understanding of the system in general is the REAL answer, but i figure this is a start right here ;x
Thanks in advance!
Nico
Read everything you can before posting questions!
Try and solve the problem yourself. For me the fun of modding your phone is in the process, not the end result. (I think of the result as a reward for my work)
Find joy in using your knowledge before crying for help.
Post mature, concise, intelligent and grammatically correct responses.
Don't demand or expect help, this forum is a privilege.
HAVE FUN. If something is a chore to you, it begs the question "Why am I even doing this?".
Lastly, respect fellow forum members! We're all here for the same reason.
There isn't a book you can read that will transform you from a noob to a 1337hax0r overnight. It takes years of learning and practice to become a developer, but if you're patient and not annoying, you will still be respected here.
Also I see alot of people asking the same questions over and over. To kinda check to see if the question you want to ask has been asked just take a little time and use the search function for the thread. You will be surprised.
Like joey and tc said. Before I joined the forums I lurked and lurked for months just reading all the stickies, checking all the questions being asked and scanning the rom threads for useful info. You never want to be the battery question guy or the disable voodoo person.
I'm still building my "street cred" here before I start a question thread. If you see a new guy asking a question, try and help out. point them to the answer with a smile. Most of all have fun.
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
Get your flame suit on cause you're about to get toasted for this thread.
But I agree with you. I'm kinda tired of the attitude here but this has been my home for 2 years and I don't plan on leaving. I wish people would drop the attitudes and be more helpful sometimes. It is what it is though. I just turn a blind eye to it.
Cheers
Sent from my SGH-I777 using xda premium
I dont care about being flamed. I see others get flamed all the time on here. If someone is going to post another smart ass comment to my post then they should not bother. I understand people are people and I am not going anywhere either. But it just gets old...
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
I'm normally really quiet on here unless I have some constructive comment or help those that are in need who really need it.
But, the main problem for all the noob question is the lack of direction for noobs to find the info they really need to seek out. Common problem on any type of forum, but is part of how community forums work. Microsoft's community does a good job in controlling this with great help with constructive help on posts given by the moderators and links from others who shared the same type of problem.
Just my 2 pence worth.
Simba501 said:
I've noticed, and I agree with you. Unfortunately, it seems as though our forum is slowly starting to turn into most others I've seen. Let's hope it doesn't get worse.
There is absolutely no use in the way some people respond. For some reason, they don't seem to realize that the time they wasted on creating a snarky remark took up more time than just passing the thread by. Usually, someone will be kind enough to provide help or direction. I understand the frustration some times, and think users should be educated on how to go about finding information that already exists. BUT, when it's done with an unnecessary attitude, or worse, attitude is given with no useful help, it accomplishes nothing. It creates an atmosphere that doesn't lend itself to building our community.
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You just hit the nail on the head!
capathy21 said:
It seems like every other posted question or comment lately is answered with a smart ass remark or the op is insulted for an honest mistake or posting a question that they didnt realize had already been asked. Yes we know we need to read before posting. Sometimes people just want to ask the question from their point of view. If half of the replies would be helpful answers instead of insulting comments the forums wouldnt get jammed up with "repeat questions". For the most part people seem cool on here and Im just wondering what some others think of this?
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The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
I have noticed this and commented on it in other threads also. The forum has went to **** the past few months.
I have been on this account for almost 3 years on here and 2 before that with another account so i have seen the changes. The reason there are so many newbs and questions is because Android and tablet use has exploded in the past year and half.
Sent from my SGH-I897 using xda premium
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
People can be assholes. Yes, most of the time it is uncalled for. i try to help when I can, because I hope someone will help me when I need it. But, at the same time, people need to learn to try to help themselves. See my sig.
We were all newbs at one point - even still, it's expected that everyone, newb and veteran alike are to read the rules and use the search function.
It's all well and good that someone makes an honest mistake by posting the same threads over again, but when it happens by every Joe Blow that comes in here, two or more times a week, and there's already 10 threads on the same topic, and said person never thought to use the search function, has **** grammar and syntax even asking their question or making a "Galaxy S II vs. ?" for the 18th time, it pisses those of us off that actually used our brain when we came here.
See, you got it all wrong: XDA wasn't made for you and I - it is a DEVELOPER'S forum. They were kind enough to let the average user sign up, expecting us to be knowledgeable enough not to be asshats that make a hundred of the same threads. Being self-entitled, thinking that the users who want to keep the developers actually developing, not answering bull**** questions for the 15th time are in the wrong for being firm, even harsh with people that don't, then there's the door. You either help the developers or get out of the way. If the developers or power users are kind enough to help answer certain questions once or twice, then count it as a blessing. DON'T even get mad when those people are then annoyed because the newb doesn't abide by rules or use their brain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
votinh said:
Agreed with OP, I am an active member on the NOOKcolor forum and I've tried to help newbies over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Yes, today newbie A asks a question, next week, newbie B ask the same question, and so on. Not only me but entire XDA members in NC room politely answering all and guide them through each step. Coming into this SGS2 room, geez, reading posts/responses really disappointed. Developers are great but power users seem to be God and expect every newbie has to know before asking. Duh, really?
I don't know if before they know about those stuff, when they were still newbie, didn't anyone showed them nicely step by step or just yelled at them like they do now
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When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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I did not post this to "whine". I posted it because if I am reading something I get sick of smart ass responses. It may have been a developer only forum at one time but it no longer is. I along with many other people here are in no way developers, but know a little bit about it compared to the average joe and want to learn more. I greatly appreciate the hard working devs who donate their time and genius minds so that we can get the most out of our devices. Its not my first rodeo on a device forum by any means. They are designed for people to help others and learn. There is no place for the attitude. Period.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
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I've been on XDA for a little over a year, I think...ever since I got the captivate. I think I may have 1 or 2 posts in the development forum and 10 or 11 in the general forums. I have spent countless hours searching, reading, searching some more and reading some more until I got the answer I needed for my particular question. Almost 100% of the issues people ask about have been answered before.
That said, I think you're off of on a couple of your bolded comments. This is just as much of a consumer forum as it is a developers forum. The developers themselves have made it that way.
Nearly all google searches about android issues point to some XDA thread. Developers work hard and are often times compensated for their work (donations.) Although, I do not think the main driving force for their hard work is donations. They do it because they love it and they want to share their work with the CONSUMERS that frequent this site.
Flaming an unsuspecting consumer, who may not have done enough research on their own, into oblivion only has negative effects. That person may be a donator that decides to leave, for example. I've used the forum search on a number of occasions and to be honest, it is quite cumbersome...there is just so much data to go through. That doesn't stop me but it is quite frustrating some times.
I think a more effective strategy for dealing with consumers, who may not be as diligent at researching as most, would be to simply ignore the post. This will force them to do more research on their own. Now, you have a user who does more research on their own and you don't look like a ****.
Flaming is pointless. Those that do it are jerks.
Shammyh said:
When I was a n00b I read XDA for hours and hours before I would consider posting. And I tried very hard to read as much as possible before asking questions. That's how a n00b becomes a power user. By learning on their own. Plus, if asked with humility, and a sincere effort to "search before posting", you'll find people tend to not actually get flamed. It's only when people express their feeling of entitlement to an answer they could have probably discovered themselves that problems begin to brew...
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Yup, in addition to one of the links in my sig being STRONGLY recommended reading:
Whenever I purchase a device, I always spend at least an hour or two a day for 2-3 days reading the forums for that device to learn its ins and outs before I post ANYTHING. Actually, in many cases, I do that before even purchasing.
XDA has clearly stated rules, and Rule #1 is to search before posting. In addition, any new users has to watch the infamous "Noob on XDA" video as part of the registration process now.
So there is NO excuse for not searching. Especially when a user posts a new thread with:
1) A question from the FAQ - it is there for a reason
2) A question that has already been covered in MULTIPLE topics that are still on the first 1-2 pages of the forum. It takes 30 seconds to skim through a page of thread titles - but users insist that someone else spend 2-3 minutes digging up a thread for them instead of spending a minute to read thread titles.
Yes, sometimes we can spend almost as much time on the flame - but at least that lets us relieve our stress at yet another user who thinks they deserve special treatment and doesn't have to follow the rules.
Edit: As to just ignoring a post - A user that didn't bother to search won't go away. They'll do something even more annoying like creating yet another NEW thread, posting a thread in Development because it wasn't answered in General or Q&A, or bumping their thread after only 12 hours. They only way they'll learn any lesson is to get a little toasty.
While donations are nice, the kind of user who comes with the kind of sense of self-entitlement that gets them flamed isn't going to donate anyway. Plus I could get quadruple the donations I've received in 3 months, and I'd still wind up with less than half a week's pay at my real job.
The amount of time one will spend searching and reading will be FAR less than the time you waste because you didn't read and screwed something up.
"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life." (Yeah, I mangled that slightly...)
This is a DEVELOPERS forum, it always has been and always will be. Without developers, it's no different than Android Central or any other forum.
Ok there wouldnt be anyone giving noobs attitude if they just followed the rules. **** they even make you watch a video b4 becoming a member here. If you have a question chances are someone has already asked/answered it. There is a search bar for a reason. USE IT! If not the by all means go ahead and post Im 100% sure you wont get **** for it. They even have a suggested thread dropdown when creating a new one, hoping someone sees that there has already been a threat opened pertaining to that particular subject. Its frustrating to other uzers who read these fourms day in and day out seeing some kid with one post asking the same question someone had already posted 3 times now. simply put quit being lazy and search just like everyone else here has b4 they asked a question.
Shammyh said:
The reason is that XDA is traditionally a DEVELOPER forum. Not a CONSUMER forum.
Yes, the original purpose of XDA has expanded, however back in the day, this site was mostly focused on technical issues. Rather than asking a simple and probably already answered question, *everyone* searched and searched again to find an answer. And if that didn't work, it was preferably to PM someone a question over starting a whole thread titled: "X thing that I'm trying to do doesn't work. Please help me!!! Sorry I'm a n00b!!!"".
There are no "stupid" question per se (though really, some folks around here push that boundary to its absolute limit), but there are plenty of already answered questions floating around. Even the OP's question/comment has been addressed millions of times before around here. Experienced XDA users get annoyed when people ask those same questions over and over again. And even though everyone says "I searched but couldn't find an answer for X", usually that's not really true. They may have quickly tried a single search term in the Vbulletin search, then probably gave up. They almost certainly haven't read the official XDA rules, and certainly haven't tried creative ways of finding the answer they are looking for.
This IS A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY. If you can't be bothered to try more than a few minutes of searching, then you are lazy, and it's not really worth the time of others to respond. Hence the flaming, and the anger, and the people attacking n00bs for already-answered questions. This is not a "community support forum" for those people who just picked up a new device and what to "r00tz that ****z" so they can play pirated games and tether for free. This is a community for people to work together on technical aspects of our amazing devices, and squeeze every drop of power from the silicon/glass/plastic devices we all love so much. Yes, people are people, not everyone will search properly, and yes, the majority user-base of XDA has changed a lot over the past 3-4 years. That doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and not follow the clearly posted XDA rules. And it doesn't mean you have the right to post threads of "OMFG I can't believe how mean all these people who donate their time for free to the community are". Get over it. If you want to idly chat and whine about this that and the other, there are plenty of other places on the internet to do that. XDA is not the place.
Originally, there was very little hostility around XDA over stupid or silly threads. This was because they were so rare, and were often honest mistakes. I don't want to read about your whining and complaining about people being mean. You're right, I *could* just skip over the thread and not say anything (which, undoubtedly, many folks are given the responses so far). But you posted it in the Galaxy S2 i777 General Forum. This thread has nothing to do with the i777 GS2. Whine elsewhere, or be flamed. That's the long and short of it.
Good luck and welcome to XDA!
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And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
bigblue95z said:
And it's the responses like this that go on this 'better than you' mentality trip that are starting to make it not as enjoyable. It's a crock of crap. XDA wouldn't be as big as it is had it stayed strictly a developer community. And the devs wouldn't get as many donations either. I do agree that there are some that abuse that 'New Thread' button. But in all honesty, the search feature on forums isn't that great. Also, some of the contributing members here didn't start out knowing what they're doing. They aquired that knowledge here. So instead of flaming, giving a [email protected] comment, or telling then how to fix it, why don't more people 'teach them to fish'. I may not know a ton about the SGSII, but I sure try to help anyone I can. I am, however, probably one of the most knowledge people on here when it comes to the automotive field. You can only imagine the crazy stuff people come up with to ask on the auto forums, but I've never just blew them off cause they couldn't find it using search. I've just found it and pointed them the right direction. And if the info isn't out there already, I try to explain to them the mechanics behind it to try to educate them a little more than they already are. I can't stand the ones that just spit out some action to try with no explination as to why to try this or that. At some point, that extra knowledge may come in handy and hopefully save that person some coin on getting their transportation back on the road. So having said that, why don't we all get a long and help each other out? I initialy came here looking for help, but I stuck around because of the great community. I'd hate to see people never come back because of a few people ruining the atmosphere of the community.
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Click to collapse
Uhh, most of the developers and users here couldn't care less how "big" XDA is. And second, as Entropy512 pointed out, most devs don't care tremendously about donations. Yea, when I really like something, or have some extra cash, I'll kick a developer a few extra bucks. But it's not really about donations or popularity. And I don't think a single Dev here is actually living off of the donations from XDA users...
And further... if you check my post history, you'd see I in fact do try to "teach people to fish" all the time. And more often than not, I'll just answer a n00b question rather than flame. And yes, the Forum search isn't the best, hence why a Google "site:xda-developers.com YourSearchTermHere" is a useful alternative.
XDA is not a n00b friendly forum. If you're a new user looking to learn about Android or phones or whatever for the first time... there are other places to do that. It's called "xda-DEVELOPERS" for a reason.
Devs have holier that thou attitudes. They act like they shouldn't be bothered by stupid nub questions. Yet they feel compelled to answer them and ***** about doing so...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using xda premium
use the search function and this will not happen.
/thread
10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
And you also double counted 9
Ha, and I felt old compared to some of the people in these forums(I'm 30)..
Question about number 5 - what makes you say using fastboot is easy? Outside using the flashboot command for a few things, that was one of the things I found the least info about..
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
Oh, and number 2 made me laugh. I have no wife, but pretty sure my roommate is starting to hate it
Post of the day for me!
It's nice to see some other non-nooby noobs around.
Hey dude, nice move, that post of yours!
Really surprised about number 2 tho- thought I'm the only one with a wife that has a problematic attitude towards my addiction...
Sent from my TBD Runny 3.1
Silentbtdeadly said:
And yea, I agree with number 3. The worst part is the answer is usually "use the search button".. if even once in a while they just answered the damn question, me using the search wouldn't take so (#*%ing long! Considering I will find 30 different posts asking the question before I ever find the answer.. sigh.
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Click to collapse
If the second person who had the same question as someone else used search instead of just asking it, he would have an answer. And the third, and the fourth, and the 5th, and the 30th, etc.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using xda premium
hasoon2000 said:
And you also double counted 9
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Click to collapse
That's why I made it 9.1.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I LMAO at #4 I'm 65, rooted my Motorola Cliq 2yrs ago, didn't even know these kind of places existed lol. And I agree with read,read,read,reread and read again. Thanks for a nice article
More truths...
alrosal said:
10. You will be flamed if you post a question that could have been solved with a little effort searching.
9.1 Most questions can be answered with a little effort searching
9. Unlocking your phone will void your warranty for software issue claims and maybe hardware issues as well. (Nobody knows for sure--which means anything you do is at your own risk.)
8. It is easy to unlock the bootloader. Go to Htc.dev to do so.
7. There are not too many DEVS right now but those who are here rock it for free and they don't have time to answer stupid posts like, how do you flash a kernal or is this going to void my warranty.
6. DEVS and Moderators are no longer spoonfeeding us answers.
5. Using fastboot is easy. Read. Reread. Then reread again. I was convinced that I was right and spent 18 hours repeating the same stupid mistake. Turns out I can read and write an appellate court brief but I can't read three lines of a post.
4. I am more than double the age of one of the most active developers....and I'm still a young man at 37.
3. Of all the time I spend searching for answers half of it is wasted sifting through duplicate posts from people asking the same question another noob had just finished asking.
2. My wife hates my phone.
1. There is no S-OFF so F-OFF if you post a question about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
ringochan said:
I commend you for being so brave uncovering the 'truth'. However, there are still some more truths hidden beneath the XDA dungeon. What I am about to disclose must be kept here for the obvious safety reasons...
0.0. The 'Search' button is NOT as effective as those so called 'experts' want you to believe. In fact, when they say 'use the search button', they are essentially telling you (i.e. 'noobs') to 'just give up and try something else'.
0.1. The 'Search' button works perfectly if you KNOW what you're looking for. If you have no clue what the answer (for what you're looking for) might be, the search will only give you a list of some random threads which you go through for a while and eventually give up. When an expert says, "Here, I searched for you," he probably already knew the answer and used that 'key word' to get the right post, in order to make you look stupid.
0.2. There is an 'advanced' option in 'Search', which may or may not work well for noobs (hint: a sward with double edge).
0.3. Searching is a form of art. You'll need some intelligence to appreciate its effectiveness, which most noobs have not acquired. If they do have such level of intelligence, then they are no longer called 'noobs' by definition.
0.4. Most experts were noobs once when they started, but they earned the honoray title by not asking the same question that the noob next to him asked 10 minutes ago.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
0.6. Reading (and reading (and reading (and reading))), after all, is the only effective medicine for noobs.
0.7. Seriously, we should require all OP's to indicate [Solved] in front of thread titles when they got an answer to their question. How often do you re-read old threads when people add a new comment to a 'beaten-up' question? Binary??
0.8. 'Search' functions in forums have not advanced in the last few decades. I'm 51 with 30 years of IT background, and, still, I am finding this subject interesting enough to post my own version. Someone, please stop me before I get banned for uncovering the secrets.
0.9 Maybe it's time to develop a good wiki page for the Amaze... though there's no guaranty that people who need it the most would ever visit such place.
Questions??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading, I was using my N1 for 2 years and I had to read read read read and read more everywhere not just xda to learn what everything was and how to do things.
With S-On things are a little different but, if you start reading and researching on your own, you'll learn a lot...see how many posts I have in october and november of 2010 when I rooted my Nexus one!! First time I ever rooted an android. all my posts just say thanks and I really don't ask questions; I had approximately 10 posts. In july I had some hardware questions and obscure questions regarding galaxy tab 10.1 since it was so new and could not find info online. !! by then I was familiar enough to root my galaxy tab 10.1 and very familiar with almost everything...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
I'm just happy that we are all having a good conversation. A lot of bad attitudes in some of the other threads.
I agree that the search feature is not great but it did force me to learn. Perhaps we should have a thread where noobs can post questions and feel safe. Hell, I'll start it. Nothing too technical but if only noobs read it we can help each other. Might give mods a break. Call it "Yo fellow noob- ask your stupid question here first before you post in another thread. It will become a filter of sorts."
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
alrosal said:
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
Improving XDA's Search function
Binary100100 said:
I almost laughed myself out of my chair with 0.5
I know a lot of "senior members" that give out bad information and it only makes things worse. But don't think they get away with it for long! As a "senior member" I hold them to a much higher standard. Many members are post addicts just for that title though. We moderators call them "post pumpers." They tend to post a lot of off-topic stuff and ask really stupid questions. Then they give inaccurate information and I have to come in and save the day. Then of course when I see this type of activity I will demote the senior member down to junior member by removing all irrelevant and inaccurate posts. This is a quick way to piss off a post pumper.
In regards to the search feature. The feature is really active if the developers and OP's tag their posts with keywords. Example. Some good keywords for this thread would be 'NOOB' 'GUIDE' 'HELP ME' etc. There are a lot of theads without tags.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I'm glad you had a good laugh with my post. I read somewhere else that you had a bad day, so it's a good sign you still hadn't lost the sense of humor.
Actually, though, my intention for posting was more serious than to make people laugh. As you mentioned, for the search feature to work well, we need discipline. The system is just not smart enough yet to become noob-proof. You need to add tags, name thread title properly, consolidate and delete duplicates and inaccuracies (by mods like you), etc.etc.
BTW, I just found out that any one CAN add tags to threads opened by someone else. I just added 'noob' and 'guide' to this thread. 'help me' was rejected because the word 'help' was too common, it said.
Now, if we can request some new features to the XDA management, here's my take...
Question Thread Status: 'Actively Waiting for Answer', 'Answered but Needs More Info', 'Solved', 'Abandoned', etc.
Answer Post Rating: 'Best Answer', 'Additional Question', 'Additional info', etc.
Smart Post Tracking: 'Info in this post is Current/Obsolete', 'Supersedes/Superseded-by Post #999', etc.
Sub-Threads: Questions related or refers to certain threads can be nested so that they appear grouped together. It's similar to the 'Threaded Mode' but at the thread level.
Enhanced 'Threaded (Display) Mode': The current implementation of the 'Threaded Mode' is not useful, IMO. I want to see the entire page nested instead of just the post titles in a small window.
I don't think I need to explain but if someone up there is interested, I will for sure.
Binary100100 said:
I don't call myself a pro by any means. However I take time to read something that I don't understand. That taught me that in grade school. But lemme ask you this. How would I look if I was to wander into another forum with my several thousand posts and 500+ "thanks" and ask what they would consider a stupid noob question? Instant bad reputation!
I wonder if I can get admin privledges to rename some titles from Senior Member to Senior Noob. In fact it should go like this. Junior Noob (10-25 stupid questions), Noob (25-50 stupid questions), Senior Noob (50-100 stupid questions), Noob Forever (100+) and the questions being asked can be voted on by other members. That way even a Senior Member (like myself) can still be elected as a noob if I was to ask at least 10 stupid questions. So if you see someone with 5,000+ posts and is rated as a Senior Noob... maybe keep looking.
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Reputation certainly is a motivation for SOME people, not for EVERYONE (sigh...). The 'Noob meter/status' is a good one. But how we (the commoners) can vote/rate someone else's questions without causing confrontations?
alrosal said:
Okay so I proved that I'm a noob forever by somehow quoting my own post.
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
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Fortunately, you didn't ask a stupid question to qualify for the noob status. Make all your mistakes before they actually implement the 'Noob Meter'!!!
seansk said:
You do not earn not to be a noob by asking 100's of questions, in fact, if you look at my posts before I started helping out this forum I pretty much had everything down, by reading,
.....
...still learning today!!! If you look at before november when I got my phone and started helping out the forum, I barely have any questions. sure, I might have had a stupid one here or there, but I did not ask 1000's of questions to not become a noob. I still don't consider myself to be a pro like binary and some others here!!!
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My point exactly. I want the forum search function to be better so that people like you can learn and help others much more easily than it is now. History has proved many times that 'noobs who don't read' will stay 'noobs forever' even if you give them the best tool available on the planet.
jjlean said:
This thread is funny, entertaining, true and slightly wonderful. I don't want noob forever!
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA App
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As I said above, you can only be 'noob forever' by not reading. As soon as you read through the thread and felt 'funny', you proved yourself to be a non-noob. And when you thought it to be true, you proved yourself to be a pro!! Hehe.
alrosal said:
I could call the thread "hey! Are you looking at my noobs."
Sent from my HTC Amaze 4G using XDA App
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If I were you, I would change the OP title to 'Unveiling the Secrets of Searching' because that's exactly what you started with this thread (at least with some bullet points).
I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
ringochan said:
snip snip snip
...I'm glad that Binary is with us on these discussions. Some mods would object to these, I know. At least, we are being heard by a non-noob!
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Of course! I'm a member too you know! It's not like I'm an XDA Automated Bot or anything.
I put my pants on like everyone else (not that I've been paying any attention to anyone dressing or anything.)
Yes I was having a bad day... couple of them actually. But I got (what I call) justice and closure. I'm satisfied with the result of the conflict and I'm moving on. Not everyone will be (or is) satisfied with the result but whatever. They can give over it.
0.5. Noobs asking hundreds of 'stupid questions' are called Senior Members.
Questions??[/QUOTE]
Hey,I resemble that remark!
I like small noobs with hard bipples, (sorry couldn't stop myself)
Amazingly awesome post!
on this site i notice everything suck as rooting instructions have (wifi only) after it...
mine is 3g also so is there a difference when rooting for the 3g to the wifi only?
and why isnt there anything here about the wifi and 3g model?
everyone has just recreated the wheel with more threads and instructions about rooting than i have had hot dinners.... is that just in case we dont understand the first one then you might with someone else....
tomjutla said:
on this site i notice everything suck as rooting instructions have (wifi only) after it...
mine is 3g also so is there a difference when rooting for the 3g to the wifi only?
and why isnt there anything here about the wifi and 3g model?
everyone has just recreated the wheel with more threads and instructions about rooting than i have had hot dinners.... is that just in case we dont understand the first one then you might with someone else....
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This is your first post on this forum, and you start a new thread to complain? Did you consider asking anyone a question, or maybe just reading first? Rooting guides are useful, even if duplicative. Complaint threads by brand new users are not. If we only had some moderators around here, this thread would be deleted soon....
Please use the Q&A Forum for questions &
Read the Forum Rules Ref Posting
Moving to Q&A
I just don't get it. Why not just delete this thread if you're going to go to the trouble of moving it? The OP was a 1-time poster and probably won't be back. Is there some rule against deleting threads? I know you have no such problem deleting posts that are critical of moderation....
slack04 said:
I just don't get it. Why not just delete this thread if you're going to go to the trouble of moving it? The OP was a 1-time poster and probably won't be back. Is there some rule against deleting threads? I know you have no such problem deleting posts that are critical of moderation....
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So you're asking for yours to be deleted for being critical of the moderation? JK
But yeah I've noticed you've had some issues with your posts being moderated before.
BTW You're probably right about the OP not coming back too.
While not wanting to start a small scale virtual war of words, he DID ask several questions, and frankly, I actually agree 100% with the OP. That is to say, there should be a dedicated sticky to rooting both the wifi and 3g/4g versions (with all other instances deleted). This would certainly help prevent a lot of the 100's of needless responsed to "I bricked my xx" etc that I've noticed on numerous forms.
To jump on someone because they make a suggestion, simply because they are new, smacks of elitist behaviour. Telling them to wade through 100's of irrelevant and, here's the important part, misleading posts is just plain mean. One thing I'd love to seem mandated/enforced is the inclusion of the exact model one is referring to when posting (especially when it comes to modifying OEM internals). This woud really go a long way in clarifying what is clearly confusing nomenclature (providing instructions to accomplish XX on a Galaxy tab or 10.1 etc provides little to no useful info - what was Samsung thinking when they names these?) There can be some serious hand-wringing moments when one is tinking with a $700 piece of hardware, especially if one accidently uses the wrong procedure on the wrong tab - the forums are full of pleas for assistance AFTER the fact because this lack of clarification. Tolerance and wisdom are what's called for here, not thumbing one's nose.
Canadian 10.1 4G - GT-7500D
ThomasClancy said:
While not wanting to start a small scale virtual war of words, he DID ask several questions, and frankly, I actually agree 100% with the OP. That is to say, there should be a dedicated sticky to rooting both the wifi and 3g/4g versions (with all other instances deleted). This would certainly help prevent a lot of the 100's of needless responsed to "I bricked my xx" etc that I've noticed on numerous forms.
To jump on someone because they make a suggestion, simply because they are new, smacks of elitist behaviour. Telling them to wade through 100's of irrelevant and, here's the important part, misleading posts is just plain mean. One thing I'd love to seem mandated/enforced is the inclusion of the exact model one is referring to when posting (especially when it comes to modifying OEM internals). This woud really go a long way in clarifying what is clearly confusing nomenclature (providing instructions to accomplish XX on a Galaxy tab or 10.1 etc provides little to no useful info - what was Samsung thinking when they names these?) There can be some serious hand-wringing moments when one is tinking with a $700 piece of hardware, especially if one accidently uses the wrong procedure on the wrong tab - the forums are full of pleas for assistance AFTER the fact because this lack of clarification. Tolerance and wisdom are what's called for here, not thumbing one's nose.
Canadian 10.1 4G - GT-7500D
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If you're supporting the the Op... Why didn't you answer all the specific questions?
While I dont mind the op posting in the right place even though new and every one was new once, wading through hundreds if not thousands of posts, has helped me learn so much I wouldn't want to have done it any other way. I'm even glad I semi bricked mine a few times.
I agree naming threads could be improved.
There are also threads that tell you what exactly what hardware you have which should be read BEFORE doing anything in threads with a warning at the beginning of most if not all them. There are posts specific to your device IF you know what your device actually is before you [email protected] with it. I learned this the hard way myself. So if you know what your device is and are in the correct forum and thread you wouldn't have all the needless responses to "I bricked my xx". I think everyone should read to find out if they should be in the 10.1 or 10.1v forums or the threads are relevant to the device they have.
Mandating inclusion of exact models your post is for is moot because it's almost always there, at least in the OP. One must know what model they have before following the guide, thread, or post. This is what should be mandatory.
I agree fully with the tolerance issue. It just gets very hard to be tolerant with someone having problems because they followed a guide or post NOT knowing what device they owned before messing with it. If you know what your device is you don't need to read irrelevant posts. This would keep responses from becoming elitist and mean for many people.
Anyway, I don't or didn't intend to be mean or come off as an elitist towards the op.
But that being said the way the forum is already setup, if you are a noob, as I myself still am, you have to read a$$loads of threads before [email protected] with your device. If you don't do it before you will be doing it after you [email protected] up you device because you didn't take the time beforehand.
The only solution currently is to read and get your facts down first. Then proceed. Unless someone is going to spend thousands of hours renaming and cleaning up threads and then spend the rest of their life constantly modding the forum for free as mods already try to do for free.
The preceding post is just my opinion and rambling no offence or ill will is intended or should be taken.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using one stinky finger.
Re: Why didn't I answer OP's Q's
Simple... I am in the same boat. I have the 4G, and have read hundreds of posts (if not more). I am unable to locate with 100% ceertainty the info I am seeking. It seems most all threads are contaminated with bits from WiFi, 4G, HSPA+ etc so it's a crap shoot. I believe you just commented on another thread where-by someone did follow a document for "4G" with rotten results due to the fact that 4G really isn't 4G on some networks (HSPA+) - this drives home my point entirely. It is necessary for complete disclosure (model types, carrier etc) when contributing to such a thread. As for stating the OP should know exactly what hardware they have, true, but they can only go by what's on the box Knowing what I have, and coming here trusting "experts" doesn't preclude the "experts" from providing an answer that doesn't match the OPs hardware. The problem isn't with the OP, the issue in that case is which folks giving "THE" answer (in good faith of course) which happens to be incorrect. Either way, having 100% accurate stickies, in my opinion, should be a priority. Allowing misinformation (however well intentioned) to remain on a resource/reference board is somewhat irresponsible.
I think you're blaming the posters wrongly. The blame falls with on the manufacturers and the people modding devices just by name not by actual device. IMHO
Yes, I replied to a post about the misleading naming of devices, but ultimately responsibility of knowing what device your modding falls upon the modder. Not the posters or even the manufacturers.
Should the manufacturers change their practice? Not really. They don't want you to mod it in the first place, but yes they are wrong for false advertising basically.
Posters can only assume you have what you say you have as far as specific devices. So they are just responding to the best of their ability not being able to know anything except what you tell them. They can't read minds and can't be expected to keep up with all the devices that may not really be what the manufacturers call them.
Sent from my GT-P7510 using one stinky finger.