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The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
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I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
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Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
http://phandroid.com/2010/10/05/skype-for-android-now-available-worldwide/
Edit
that's right, is doesn't work on the Vibrant.
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
amorek13 said:
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
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Click to collapse
It appears that it doesn't work on any galaxy s phone..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's a POS app
no Video calling
no group calling
They waited this long to release this Garbage?
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
Galaxy S owners get the shaft ... yet again! Maybe we should just recognize the fact that AT&T/iPhone 4 is the best game in town and quit trying to play catch up.
There is a GPS fix that allows it to work excellent. Get over it.
dcchristopher said:
Well, at least we all now know a little more about the two of you. I don't blame you entirely for your disgraceful behavior. Surely your upbringing had a lot to do with it.
I don't see how what I said was inflammatory but perhaps it was misperceived. Allow me to explain: I paid $500 for this device. I honestly don't even need the phone aspect of it. I just need it to access the internet (email, web, etc), then as a media player, and then occasionally as a GPS device. The calling capabilities are literally icing on the cake. Let's just skip the whole GPS part since that needs no introduction. It simply doesn't work (unless you consider your location jumping around every 10 seconds "working" ... yeah, what fun it is to be hearing erroneous directions from your GPS device). T-mobile's voice and data services have been quite paltry in my experience. Calls drop quite often and that's something many Tmo subscribers complain about, especially near downtown and on a NexusOne. Moreover, data takes FOREVER to connect. I could be getting 4mbps/2mbps one second, then 750k/300k the next, then incessant data connection attempts with no data being transmitted ... until I reboot my phone. WTF??? A month ago I was driving from Dallas to San Antonio and got nothing but Edge the whole way down ... all along an interstate highway (albeit one of the worst I've ever seen) ... the phone was even occasionally switching to "G" and it took me forever to remember what that stood for ... GPRS!!! I haven't seen that since the 90s.
If you guys think it is acceptable to get ripped off like that, for hardware and services, by all means continue condoning and promoting Tmo and Sammy's failures and inaction by rewarding them for all that. These phones went on sale 7/15, around the same time Tmo announced their HSPA+ network. Three months later, you expect at least "an" action. No credits, no buy-backs, no remedies ... only failed promises. If you bought a car that couldn't perform as advertised and spec'd, I'm sure you would act differently.
But ... judging from your comments above, you guys are entirely worthy of your fate.
Best,
DCC
P.S. I dislike Apple fanboys just as much as the next guy but at some point we all need to man up to the facts ... the iPhone has the best user experience ... and Windows Phone 7 offers the best development experience (trust me, I have written/am writing apps for all three). The only thing positive about Android in my opinion is the tight integration of all the Google apps and services ... which oddly are not favored by many Android fans on this site ... in addition, they are increasingly being integrated in the other platforms as well (albeit not fast enough). Again, why Android? If it's because you want to be this decade's equivalent of the 90s' Linux geek who spends all day customizing the OS and the environment instead of actually using it and putting to good use, then have fun! Don't feel bad ... most people do not learn from history's lessons either!
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Click to collapse
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
As for the OP, Skype went downhill once they went to bed with the big red.
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
lqaddict said:
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really wanted Android to succeed but it hasn't and I'm not necessarily blaming Android itself. I just don't see how I can choose it when the hardware and carrier are dropping the ball. All three (OS, hardware, carrier) are part and parcel. "Hardware support" is not enough when the hardware itself is not cutting it. First the Hero had build quality and connectivity issues, now the Vibrant has an elusive Froyo build and major GPS issues (in response to a previous post, I have yet to see a truly working "fix" and I have installed most if not all of them ... whoever claims it's now perfectly working is smoking something he/she should share with the rest of us).
Thank you for keeping an open mind and I do agree with you that individual experiences will vary but let's agree that this forum is proof that there are major unaddressed problems with this phone.
junkdruggler said:
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
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Click to collapse
Thank you for applying intelligence and not resorting to childish name-calling ... simply put, I left AT&T after a decade of being their customer because my non-iPhone superphones (usually purchased from abroad but compatible with US 3G) were being intentionally disregarded by their network in favor of the iPhone devices out there ... $110 a month for a discriminating data service is not acceptable. iPhones are also a little "too user-friendly" for me. I preferred a more open platform. At this point though, I will settle for a device that "just works". That is what every iPhone user will tell you out there ... the s*** just works. A phone is something that should enable you to do things with it, whether it's productivity, app development, multimedia, services, etc. A phone is not a perpetual hack factory, at least not as a primary device. If people want a side project to play with, great. What I have seen on this forum though is that most people need a phone that works for them, not the other way around.
I am waiting for the first generation WP7 phones to roll out and see what drama will ensue, if any. As you very astutely stated, "there are pros and cons to any device and any carrier". I really enjoy the WP7 mobile app development environment and so long as the phones are not involved in yet another fiasco, I will most likely get one. If not, the iPhone it is.
I'm not trolling and I do not mean to offend hard-core Linux super-users/developers but this business of shoddy phones, shoddy service and endless "hacking" is not right when we're all paying 50-100 a month for service and 200-500 for devices. I am surprised that people are not up in arms about it. There really needs to be a class-action lawsuit over this. I know, a handful of lawyers will just make a shipload of money. Still, companies cannot get away with this sort of negligence. This isn't the first time and it sure as heck won't be the last.
Vote with your dollars and best luck to you,
DCC
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
lqaddict said:
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
PaiPiePia said:
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully Android will survive, even if only because competition is a good thing. I think most of the issues faced today (so-called fragmentation, etc) will be resolved in the re-architecture being introduced in Android 3.0. I'm more concerned about the carriers and hardware manufacturers closing up shop after a phone has been released and only looking forward to the next model. What good is it if Android survives and succeeds if I am the one left holding the dud? "Oh, just pay another two to five hundred dollars." The worst part is that the user/owner community turns a blind eye to the egregious failures in the name of fandom. That is NOT the way to organize and effect change.
dcchristopher said:
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I went to the apple forums before the proximity sensor issues were resolved, and it was Vibrant GPS Redux over there.
I am glad that Apple took care of the problem after a few updates to their iOS, but as with the GPS issues on our phones the proximity sensor should've been caught during the QA, I am not gonna say anything about Antennagate.
Hopefully GPS will be patched for good on the Vibrant too, and no I do not need the proof that it is addressed with the latest update - faster locks does not mean accuracy.
scrizz said:
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
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Click to collapse
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
cdill3000 said:
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
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Click to collapse
Don't let Skype off the hook though ... I used to be a big fan of theirs but they've been very slow with delivering platform-specific clients and they seem to be playing favorites and such. Closing the door on fring, a very, very open solution out there, was a deplorable thing to do.
It doesn't matter folks ... when Google comes out with their VOIP service, and you KNOW they will (Gizmo5 acquisition, etc), all these other (dis-)services will be obliterated. I predict Google will establish its own data-only cell carrier (cause data is all you need anyway) ... hopefully within the next 2-3 years.
I know this thread kinda derailed off topic, but imma put my two cents in.
I do kinda agree with DCC, at my workplace pretty much everyone has some sort of smart phone. When the subject of phones comes up, I am the first one to bang my chest and yell ANDROID~!
But the sad truth is, iphone users like the iphone because IT DOES WHAT THEY NEED IT TO DO. they really dont care about all the stuff we have come to love about android.
So they are happy and content, while we are up till the wee hrs of the morning trying to make our phones have a milli-second faster lol.
And to me its not really trying to make our phones better than the iphone, its me just making my phone better than it was.
I am disappointed in samsung about the lag issue and the gps issue.
I dont complain about it though, cause we are all here at this website to make our phones better than it is from stock. and I am 100 percent sure , once its said and done, this phone will more than satisfy me.
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
cashless said:
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
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Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
dcchristopher said:
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
Click to expand...
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Saying that a company violated API publicly when they didn't is libel.
Just answer the question, your smugness, where did you get your info (especially seeing as you're stating that it's an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring. I guess you're one of these people behind these closed doors?
Lemme get your "jump to conclusions" board for you.
I have been following the forum since I got this beast.
Personally I have had a very pleasant Windows Phone experience using Titan. However in last few days the negative feedback threads have increased in number. Presuming that number of end users is increasing, the amount of threads/feedback would have increased anyway. But then does it mean that majority of users are regretting buying this beast? - I am not.
However after looking at few threads, I've noticed that majority of issues with Titan are to those owners who are on AT&T. Could it be carrier modifications in the USA? Is Titan available on any other network in the US? Anyone have feedback?
Most Europe based users have not give much input in those problem threads, so am assuming it's just AT&T handsets that go weird.
But it will help if we guessed a rough number of Titans and their providers/sellers.
Not sure what a poll of owners will show you without correlating it to how happy they are. I am on AT&T and am quite happy - other than WIFI being a little over sensative. If I did not turn off the sound enhancements, I think I would be very unhappy.
I am on at&t with the titan and have no issue with it. Its been an amazing phone, best i have ever had.
AT&T here, other than my disappointment at "4G", everything is fine. Most notably, I don't have any signal issues while holding the phone, I ran several tests with the app Bandwidth
Astute observation. As another poster said on another thread, we drooled over the Titan so much that there had to be a little bit of let down.
I tried to balance my likes and dislikes in another thread, but my bottom line is that the good still outweighs the bad, and much of the bad is software, not hardware, so might be fixed in the future.
I would agree that, yes, the Titan is the best phone I've ever owned, period.
All that said, I just picked up my wife's Focus not ten minutes ago, and I really miss its form factor, weight and saturation.
Thanks for voting guys!
The only reason I din't correlate it to happy or not happy was because it will be too relative an idea of happiness. e.g. I might be happy even with those wifi issues, purely because I am with a network provider that gives me unlimited internet and never use wifi!
However, it is definitely a good idea to have a poll correlating experiences with geographical purchases.
By the looks of just initial 9 votes it looks like either way the views are from AT&T users majorly - happy or unhappy ones. I am just a little inclined to believe AT&T modifications could be at the root of all these(?)
Can someone let us know if on WP AT&T puts it's own bloatware like on Android? Or is bloatware additions just restricted to manufacturers and not network providers?
I know here in the UK Orange is nasty and very notorious in terms of modifying any OS to an extent by their useless bloatware. But am not very sure about AT&T, however would be good to add to my knowledge
drupad2drupad said:
Thanks for voting guys!
The only reason I din't correlate it to happy or not happy was because it will be too relative an idea of happiness. e.g. I might be happy even with those wifi issues, purely because I am with a network provider that gives me unlimited internet and never use wifi!
However, it is definitely a good idea to have a poll correlating experiences with geographical purchases.
By the looks of just initial 9 votes it looks like either way the views are from AT&T users majorly - happy or unhappy ones. I am just a little inclined to believe AT&T modifications could be at the root of all these(?)
Can someone let us know if on WP AT&T puts it's own bloatware like on Android? Or is bloatware additions just restricted to manufacturers and not network providers?
I know here in the UK Orange is nasty and very notorious in terms of modifying any OS to an extent by their useless bloatware. But am not very sure about AT&T, however would be good to add to my knowledge
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They install a couple AT&T specific apps, but you can uninstall them. Other than that, it is as stock of a rom as you can get. No bloatware.
I had all the att stuff off ,except for the Myatt app, within an hour of getting and activating my Titan. Love it, only hiccups so far are getting my old word,excel docs off my old Fuze- not all of them are docx format. Hope the next update includes the ability to mms with gif and audio files. I have fun just turning it on and flipping screens smooth and bright.
Edit to the office docs: had to reset the office hub on the phone, no problems now reading earlier versions of office and can edit newer versions.
Dragon Queen said:
I had all the att stuff off ,except for the Myatt app, within an hour of getting and activating my Titan. Love it, only hiccups so far are getting my old word,excel docs off my old Fuze- not all of them are docx format. Hope the next update includes the ability to mms with gif and audio files. I have fun just turning it on and flipping screens smooth and bright.
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Click to collapse
Haha exactly my feeling! turning on and flipping screens gives me so much of satisfaction!
Now that we know ATT bloatware is nearly zero, I am struggling to figure out how come so many ATT users have dodgy titans that need to be replaced within one week. Again not 'so many' probably 5-6 that might be reported out here in the forum.
My Titan after 7740 update has worked so much flawlessly and everyday I keep discovering new apps that never imagined to exist on my old Android phone! This WP Titan is a treat to my eyes!
Thank you for your replies, they have defiantly given me something to think about.
I think your correct, a Android to Titan? thread might be useful, especially with these great answers. Will sort it now.
Thanks again for your responses.
Edit, its sorted. Thread created titled Android to Titan? I have moved the responses there. Hope its useful
original_ganjaman said:
Thank you for your replies, they have defiantly given me something to think about.
I think your correct, a Android to Titan? thread might be useful, especially with these great answers. Will sort it now.
Thanks again for your responses.
Edit, its sorted. Thread created titled Android to Titan? I have moved the responses there. Hope its useful
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That was quick! Thanks
drupad2drupad said:
That was quick! Thanks
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Only a BUMP!
my 2 cents worth,unbranded sim free europe with zero issues from day one. love this phone
stevov said:
my 2 cents worth,unbranded sim free europe with zero issues from day one. love this phone
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me too,the phone is just great.No problem so far.
Well for one thing us AT&T users are running older software on our Titans than the rest of the world because AT&T sucks.
Unbranded Titan UK, No issues, Perfectly happy and hope it stays that way.
UK
Unbranded UK on orange no problems so far, battery lasting much better than i hoped slight issues with the radio and wifi , not had any screen lack of response as metioned in other forums, last phone was HD2 running 'everything'.
This phone is the only upgrade i could go for after the HD2. Sadly just lurking in hope of the 'custom ROM' i know the geniuses here will eventualy produce
After putting WP7 on my HD2 I decided to get myself a Titan until something better comes along here is Australia.
So I got myself a AT&T branded unit off ebay, SIM unlocked it using htcimeiunlock.com (which took all of a couple of minutes) after AT&T customer serice told me I couldn't unluock it and I'm now a happy camper on the Telstra NextG network here in Oz wiht my Titan.
I am seeing 3G/WiFi issues like others but other than that the unit is going well.
Oh I also got the Mugen Power 1950mAh battery, which I can run my Titan for almost 2 days, with bluetooth and often WiFi on as well.
Now if only we can get a custom unlocked ROM the world would be perfect
Hello to all! :fingers-crossed:
As you know, HTC has decided not to pursue certain MAJ who were scheduled yet on our beloved models. I invite you to sign the petition on line for validate your displeasure by HTC company policy to its customers. Click "sign" [/ b]...
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitions-recovery-update-htc-flyer/
Here is another link to a petition for SHD posted...
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/give-us-ics/
Here is the text of the petition posted for the flyer:
Distinguished leaders marketing HTC,
We call out to date show you our dissatisfaction your decision not to propose to the SHIFT ICS (where possibly another) Obviously your ad had the effect of a Treason in the world to the owners of Tablet Flyer famous who have seen this act deliberate killing programmed from HTC.
Indeed, the Flyer is your only so far shelf and it will not be entitled to benefit from last improvements in google.
We do not understand your approach knowing that this product has one year old! From a customer relations standpoint, it is totally outrageous.
There may be a technical problem because the Developers are most certainly the height to solve some technical problems. If it turns out that this is a business decision, we think this is a huge mistake and that it wrong in the sense of logic, why private that a better enchant owners.
Other products have also seen a change radical from you.
We ask you to please rethink your decision on the judgment of the SHIFT shelf Flyer because it is your duty as provider mobile phone to offer the best services and follow-up to these clients to be missed manner most who follow you from the beginning.
The angry customers! ...
thank @+ Kacaouet
People...HTC is not obligated to provide us anything besides basic hardware/software support. They are not required to give us a upgrade, heck they aren't even required to give us bugfixes. When you buy a tablet or phone you are buying it with the current software load, meaning you need to make sure you are happy with what it runs and how it runs. Can we PLEASE stop beating this horse?
thewadegeek said:
People...HTC is not obligated to provide us anything besides basic hardware/software support. They are not required to give us a upgrade, heck they aren't even required to give us bugfixes. When you buy a tablet or phone you are buying it with the current software load, meaning you need to make sure you are happy with what it runs and how it runs. Can we PLEASE stop beating this horse?
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Click to collapse
Hello,
It's your perspective and you've made, it is!
This is not the generality of people who think that, already after just seven months of existence, it simply removes purtement and the evolution of the tablet, this is not normal.
They are not obliged to provide it to us for free, okay, at least that we are proposing an alternative to évolution.
Knowing that the products were sold frozen and for the typical person, not necessarily easy to change OS as two shirts!
If you can afford to buy every two weeks, good for you and too bad for us ...
CDLT
@ + Kacaouet...
@thewadegeek:
As far as I recall, there is some kind of agreement between Google and the main manufacturers to give proper support/updates for products for at least 18 months after its initial release.
Now, as the HTC Flyer has been released < the mentioned 18 months I expect HTC to honor that agreement.
And please do not forget that the HC update was rubish and should not be called an update but a downgrade (as some features do not work (as well) as they did before).
If you would own a car, and for some reason they upgraded some kind of software @ the garage which resulted in non functioning blinkers/signal lights and you had to put your hand out of the the window everytime you are about to switch lanes or make a turn in order to warn the other drivers about your actions, would you accept that? I WANT MY HARDWARE BUTTONS BACK!!!
Everyone is free to make his voice heard and if you don't like topics like this one, than please .. by all means .. stay out.
Yucko said:
@thewadegeek:
As far as I recall, there is some kind of agreement between Google and the main manufacturers to give proper support/updates for products for at least 18 months after its initial release.
Now, as the HTC Flyer has been released < the mentioned 18 months I expect HTC to honor that agreement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's SUPPORT not upgrade, and in no way does SUPPORT entail a UPGRADE.
And please do not forget that the HC update was rubish and should not be called an update but a downgrade (as some features do not work (as well) as they did before).
If you would own a car, and for some reason they upgraded some kind of software @ the garage which resulted in non functioning blinkers/signal lights and you had to put your hand out of the the window everytime you are about to switch lanes or make a turn in order to warn the other drivers about your actions, would you accept that? I WANT MY HARDWARE BUTTONS BACK!!!
Everyone is free to make his voice heard and if you don't like topics like this one, than please .. by all means .. stay out.
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Click to collapse
First off I LIKED the upgrade, so you can't make a blanket statement calling it rubbish. The pen support with Honeycomb is pretty slick and I enjoy it. Second that's not a valid comparison, in that case they removed REQUIRED functionality, in this case they just replaced it with something else. And if you want your hardware buttons back then downgrade, or install Lee's Honeycomb. Viola. Your last statement is TOTALLY contradictory friend, first you says we can all make our voice heard, and then you tell me to stay out. Also the purpose of a forum is for discussion, you all seem to just want people to agree with you. I'm just getting tired with everyone starting a new petition or "HTC sucks" thread. If you feel betrayed then deal with it, HTC has done nothing legally wrong so everyone is stuck.
What are we talking about? What in the world is a SHIFT Flyer Ics? Is this a petition to ship Flyers with Need for Speed SHIFT on them? I'm confused
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Cor-master said:
What are we talking about? What in the world is a SHIFT Flyer Ics? Is this a petition to ship Flyers with Need for Speed SHIFT on them? I'm confused
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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Lol. ( its just Google translate)
To all:
Something is not happening right. We are arguing on wrong issues. Some points I noticed and I would like to emphasise upon are:
1. Yeah they gave us honeycomb. But its not perfect. Chiefly the internet browsing experience. Internet is the soul of computers, tablets, smart phones, ipads etc. and we need a solid browser to experience it, which is not there. It leaves a lot to be desired considering:
a. Flyer has 1gb ram, a powerful processor, 1 GB system ROM, Enough Internal Memory
b. Initially it was sold for exorbitant price (700$+, though mine 32 gb, 3g cost $390)
c. It was told by Google about an year back that all devices should be supported till 18 months.
Yeah, flyer has beautiful features like pen, hd cams, srs, mhl out, brilliant screen, top battery. But it lacks a solid browsing experience. In my view what the majority of us want is a solid browsing experience. Now that comes with a HC update or ICS update will not matter to me.
Many people are talking of broken GPS. If its really broken, then its HTC's duty to repair it, not the developers'. If its not broken, we should forget about this issue. Now if someone says it requires just a change in config file to repair it, I agree to it but this small repair forces you to root and risk bricking.
On another note of doctorlirio campaign: he should not have raised the issue of GSM calls with HTC. HTC didn't give us calling functionality, xda did.
So, why we are always wanting better? Because it has become our need and habit to stay ahead and overcome the weaknesses of our devices. We can't stand any weakness in our devices. And for me, a solid browsing experience is my primary need where my flyer doesn't satisfy me fully. Whether its HTC or developers, we always want better for our devices.
( though opera mobile works a little better in browsing, but sometimes ( may be often) it also fails to function perfectly on high load web pages.)
Lastly, I feel that, its a little too late now for us to keep chasing HTC. ( though HTC is to blame for a weak internet browsing experience and those who paid exorbitant sums for buying this are even more right in blaming htc)
lekhwani said:
Lol. ( its just Google translate)
To all:
Something is not happening right. We are arguing on wrong issues. Some points I noticed and I would like to emphasise upon are:
1. Yeah they gave us honeycomb. But its not perfect. Chiefly the internet browsing experience. Internet is the soul of computers, tablets, smart phones, ipads etc. and we need a solid browser to experience it, which is not there. It leaves a lot to be desired considering:
a. Flyer has 1gb ram, a powerful processor, 1 GB system ROM, Enough Internal Memory
b. Initially it was sold for exorbitant price (700$+, though mine 32 gb, 3g cost $390)
c. It was told by Google about an year back that all devices should be supported till 18 months.
Yeah, flyer has beautiful features like pen, hd cams, srs, mhl out, brilliant screen, top battery. But it lacks a solid browsing experience. In my view what the majority of us want is a solid browsing experience. Now that comes with a HC update or ICS update will not matter to me.
Many people are talking of broken GPS. If its really broken, then its HTC's duty to repair it, not the developers'. If its not broken, we should forget about this issue. Now if someone says it requires just a change in config file to repair it, I agree to it but this small repair forces you to root and risk bricking.
On another note of doctorlirio campaign: he should not have raised the issue of GSM calls with HTC. HTC didn't give us calling functionality, xda did.
So, why we are always wanting better? Because it has become our need and habit to stay ahead and overcome the weaknesses of our devices. We can't stand any weakness in our devices. And for me, a solid browsing experience is my primary need where my flyer doesn't satisfy me fully. Whether its HTC or developers, we always want better for our devices.
( though opera mobile works a little better in browsing, but sometimes ( may be often) it also fails to function perfectly on high load web pages.)
Lastly, I feel that, its a little too late now for us to keep chasing HTC. ( though HTC is to blame for a weak internet browsing experience and those who paid exorbitant sums for buying this are even more right in blaming htc)
Click to expand...
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I came to that conclusion today about Web browsing actually. I wanted something that would be as useful as a laptop and Web browsing has never been stellar on it. And the best Android Web browser isn't available on it!
Senseless helps with browsing big time but unfortunately I still find myself grabbing the laptop and getting frustrated with the browser when I need to get something done.
As for everything else its perfect but the one thing I bought it for is its greatest weakness. I didn't buy it expecting any update, but I was hoping we'd get ics to fix the Web browsing. Web browsing is fully gpu accelerated in ics and my phone whether I'm running chrome or the stock htc browser is pc quality. The flyer is more akin to my old captivate.
Firefox might be the answer if they ever optimize it for tablets
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
Click to expand...
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.