For months and months since I got my xv6800, I've been asking vzw reps, tech support morons, and WDTS people when OUR RevA/GPS software update will be released. Every time I ask I get the same response.
"Your handset is not EVDO Rev A upgradable"
"Your handset doesn't have GPS in it"
The HTC website never helped either because under specifications it never said anything about RevA capabilities, so I was forced to bite my tongue and just accept Verizon's stupidity.
Well HTC finally added it to their list of specifications. It's been like that for the Mogul and other Titan variants now for a while and now it's there for the xv6800.
http://www.htc.com/us/product.aspx?id=11150
What's Verizon gonna say now when I whip up that website and ask why the MANUFACTURER would list it as a capability if supposedly "my handset is not EVDO RevA upgradable?"
They'll be forced to look me in the eye and tell me the truth. They're too money hungry and lazy to step it up and get the software update going. They're too busy thinking up their next piece of **** application for Get It Now and developing new ways to screw their customers out of more money.
Granted I've had RevA and GPS working since the leak, but still...it's the principle!
/endrant
please let me know what they say when you call. I would love to hear it.
now, if they would only put something that says to some extent "upgradeable to 128mb ram" (one can hope...)
thanks
Please remember, you are talking to some lowly, near minimum wage customer service employee. Even if he wanted to give you a truthful answer, the truth is, he probably just doesnt know jack s***.
Save the effort and frustration, go with a custom ROM and live a happy life.
gcincotta said:
For months and months since I got my xv6800, I've been asking vzw reps, tech support morons, and WDTS people when OUR RevA/GPS software update will be released. Every time I ask I get the same response.
"Your handset is not EVDO Rev A upgradable"
"Your handset doesn't have GPS in it"
The HTC website never helped either because under specifications it never said anything about RevA capabilities, so I was forced to bite my tongue and just accept Verizon's stupidity.
Well HTC finally added it to their list of specifications. It's been like that for the Mogul and other Titan variants now for a while and now it's there for the xv6800.
http://www.htc.com/us/product.aspx?id=11150
What's Verizon gonna say now when I whip up that website and ask why the MANUFACTURER would list it as a capability if supposedly "my handset is not EVDO RevA upgradable?"
They'll be forced to look me in the eye and tell me the truth. They're too money hungry and lazy to step it up and get the software update going. They're too busy thinking up their next piece of **** application for Get It Now and developing new ways to screw their customers out of more money.
Granted I've had RevA and GPS working since the leak, but still...it's the principle!
/endrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who gives a ****? We know it's capable and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't run their bloatware version of WM even if they released an update. Verizon sucks ass, we all know it. So why beat a dead horse?
Who gives a ****? We know it's capable and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't run their bloatware version of WM even if they released an update. Verizon sucks ass, we all know it. So why beat a dead horse?
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Click to collapse
Ha do you think I would actually run their software update? It's just the mere principle. Don't forget though...if they finally do release an update we may get a new, better radio out of it.
Please remember, you are talking to some lowly, near minimum wage customer service employee. Even if he wanted to give you a truthful answer, the truth is, he probably just doesnt know jack s***.
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Click to collapse
I've spoken with people high up on the food chain before that actually do know a thing or two about this stuff. In fact, one time I spoke with a tier 2 WDTS rep who was intrigued when I informed him that it in fact WAS capable. I stayed on the phone with him as I directed him to these forums while he read all about it. He said it's bs that they're being told to inform customers that it's not capable after reading.
lllboredlll said:
Who gives a ****? We know it's capable and to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't run their bloatware version of WM even if they released an update. Verizon sucks ass, we all know it. So why beat a dead horse?
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Click to collapse
there are some things i want for vz that i can only get from a vz update.
carriers supporting their products is a good thing, whether you run their firmware or not.
dcd1182 said:
there are some things i want for vz that i can only get from a vz update.
carriers supporting their products is a good thing, whether you run their firmware or not.
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Click to collapse
Hence the comment "Verizon sucks ass, we all know it"
My point is why complain about something that is already known and established. I don't see you *****ing about Verizon. You know they suck, you wish they would support their hardware more, but you also know there isn't alot you can do about it. There has been so much put into the Titan community lately and yet people still *****. Sorry I just get tired of all the complaining done in these forums. I just think it's stupid to waste data space and a thread in this site to complain. I think everytime I'm unhappy I'm gonna start a thread just so I can ***** about it. This site is for technical data. Not someone's personal conquest to whine.
lllboredlll said:
H..... This site is for technical data. Not someone's personal conquest to whine.
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It's funny, you're doing a lot of *****ing and whining in this thread; just leave it alone.
Hence the comment "Verizon sucks ass, we all know it"
My point is why complain about something that is already known and established. I don't see you *****ing about Verizon. You know they suck, you wish they would support their hardware more, but you also know there isn't alot you can do about it. There has been so much put into the Titan community lately and yet people still *****. Sorry I just get tired of all the complaining done in these forums. I just think it's stupid to waste data space and a thread in this site to complain. I think everytime I'm unhappy I'm gonna start a thread just so I can ***** about it. This site is for technical data. Not someone's personal conquest to whine.
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You really need to learn to get a clue. In no way was my post "*****ing" or "complaining" about Verizon. I was merely pointing out that the times in the past when I was told certain things have come to an end because certain facts have finally been made public. If you can't see that then you need a lot of help my friend.
This site is for "technical data". What exactly is "technical data"? It's people like you that start the flames in these threads, not me. If you knew anything about this stuff you'd know that with carrier software updates comes updated radio roms, pri updates, driver updates, os updates, and more. Do you think these roms and kitchens just popped up out of nowhere? They magically created themselves? No, they came from official carrier releases and were extracted, cleaned, and tweaked. dcd and I have been looking for a solution for people to refresh their pri in case they accidentally let customizations run. A Verizon software update may contain something very useful in the extended rom that could help us develop it. I bet you didn't know that though right?
You've made it clear to everyone that YOU are the one who likes to "*****" and "complain", not me.
gcincotta said:
You really need to learn to get a clue. In no way was my post "*****ing" or "complaining" about Verizon. I was merely pointing out that the times in the past when I was told certain things have come to an end because certain facts have finally been made public. If you can't see that then you need a lot of help my friend.
This site is for "technical data". What exactly is "technical data"? It's people like you that start the flames in these threads, not me. If you knew anything about this stuff you'd know that with carrier software updates comes updated radio roms, pri updates, driver updates, os updates, and more. Do you think these roms and kitchens just popped up out of nowhere? They magically created themselves? No, they came from official carrier releases and were extracted, cleaned, and tweaked. dcd and I have been looking for a solution for people to refresh their pri in case they accidentally let customizations run. A Verizon software update may contain something very useful in the extended rom that could help us develop it. I bet you didn't know that though right?
You've made it clear to everyone that YOU are the one who likes to "*****" and "complain", not me.
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Click to collapse
....epic reply....
RE: Rev A and GPS
Both the HTC site and Verizon say nothing of being GPS capable, yet there are people using GPS right now through avaialbe kitchens.
I love verizon. I have gotten nothing but "great" support from them with all 19 of my phones. (Starting with MotoV265 (5) MotoV710(4) MotoE815 (1) MotoQ (4) Treo700wx (3) and finally my XV6800 (2) all in only 3.5 years)
On a serious note though, the reason that they won't release GPS for it is because they can't regulate its use very well on their system. Their other phones use VZNav on the BREW enabled phones but, as far as I know, our phones don't do BREW.
PS. Can I ***** and complain a little too here?
kyxdadeveloper said:
Both the HTC site and Verizon say nothing of being GPS capable, yet there are people using GPS right now through avaialbe kitchens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a great difference between not listing a specification to denying its capability.
Keystone said:
There is a great difference between not listing a specification to denying its capability.
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Click to collapse
i just talked to a verizon tech suport rep, she helped me reset my data after messing it up.
but at the end of the call, i asked "i heard about this rev A thing...is our phone capable of that?" and she looked it up and said yes it is.
she also said she wasnt aware of any plans to do any kind of software update that would enable it, and she said she wouldnt know about it until it was released..
then just for $hits and giggles, i asked, what about gps. can this phone do that? and she said like for what? navigation? i said, yeh, for navigation, for google maps, something like that.
she said since google maps is 3rd party software, she wouldnt be able to tell me for sure if it would work. But i asked is our phone capable of gps?
and she said "yes, it is capable, but its not supported"
i guess that means since they dont have any software that could use it, and since they dont support 3rd part software, the can still say its capable, without actually enabling it on a stock rom.
just my experience about 20 min ago
gbenj said:
i just talked to a verizon tech suport rep, she helped me reset my data after messing it up.
but at the end of the call, i asked "i heard about this rev A thing...is our phone capable of that?" and she looked it up and said yes it is.
she also said she wasnt aware of any plans to do any kind of software update that would enable it, and she said she wouldnt know about it until it was released..
then just for $hits and giggles, i asked, what about gps. can this phone do that? and she said like for what? navigation? i said, yeh, for navigation, for google maps, something like that.
she said since google maps is 3rd party software, she wouldnt be able to tell me for sure if it would work. But i asked is our phone capable of gps?
and she said "yes, it is capable, but its not supported"
i guess that means since they dont have any software that could use it, and since they dont support 3rd part software, the can still say its capable, without actually enabling it on a stock rom.
just my experience about 20 min ago
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You'd all be smart to switch to Sprint with your xv6800s. I think they'll let you do it. you may have to pay $100 to $200 to get out of your contract with Verizon. It will be worth it once your accounts are set up properly. Sprint has the worst customer service, but at least they are trying to get WM6.1 up. The GPS works great on the Mogul. Your xv6800 hardware is identical to the Mogul. You should be able to Hard SPL, flash a Sprint ROM, and then go in and get you phone set up on Sprint. Check this forum carefully for details and follow instructions carefully.
Spr0ckEt said:
I love verizon. I have gotten nothing but "great" support from them with all 19 of my phones. (Starting with MotoV265 (5) MotoV710(4) MotoE815 (1) MotoQ (4) Treo700wx (3) and finally my XV6800 (2) all in only 3.5 years)
On a serious note though, the reason that they won't release GPS for it is because they can't regulate its use very well on their system. Their other phones use VZNav on the BREW enabled phones but, as far as I know, our phones don't do BREW.
PS. Can I ***** and complain a little too here?
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Click to collapse
I agree with you. started with LG VX6000,8000, 8100, 700w 700wx and now this one XV6800...may some day they will tell me the truth and stop and do the right thing
Switch to sprint? Haha, the development community surrounding this phone is so immense that within hours after any carrier releases ANY update, it is ripped, stripped, and rereleased with unicarrier availability. I am running 3.49 on my xv6800, with radio 3.39, so..
Now, Sero is very, very appealing. $30 a month for unlimited Data is heavenly. I have free data due to some technical complications, but my family share plan with 700 minutes for 3 people costs more than 30 times 3.
Lmfao is it really going to make you feel better to take up the time of a rep that can't magically enable the gps function for you? Custom rom is the way to go, it's easy and you don't have to give anyone a headache in the process.
I swear, some of you are either illiterate, or just choose not to read certain parts.
gcincotta said:
You really need to learn to get a clue. In no way was my post "*****ing" or "complaining" about Verizon. I was merely pointing out that the times in the past when I was told certain things have come to an end because certain facts have finally been made public. If you can't see that then you need a lot of help my friend.
This site is for "technical data". What exactly is "technical data"? It's people like you that start the flames in these threads, not me. If you knew anything about this stuff you'd know that with carrier software updates comes updated radio roms, pri updates, driver updates, os updates, and more. Do you think these roms and kitchens just popped up out of nowhere? They magically created themselves? No, they came from official carrier releases and were extracted, cleaned, and tweaked. dcd and I have been looking for a solution for people to refresh their pri in case they accidentally let customizations run. A Verizon software update may contain something very useful in the extended rom that could help us develop it. I bet you didn't know that though right?
You've made it clear to everyone that YOU are the one who likes to "*****" and "complain", not me.
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lol.... ya I thought all of the software and drivers just popped out of someone ass My whole point in this ( which you missed totally) is, why start a thread to *****? Either way it really don't matter. Next time I'll keep my personal opinion to myself as I normally do.
The next time you make a thread to ***** maybe you might want to leave out the gay "/endrant" crap. What is a rant, may I ask sir? I'll answer it for you..... It means your *****ing!!!
steb0ne said:
It's funny, you're doing a lot of *****ing and whining in this thread; just leave it alone.
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lol... I'm sorry about *****ing about him *****ing or whatever he's gonna call it. Next time I'll roll my eyes and continue without commenting.
Related
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????
weinson said:
The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)
see here for all the gory details.
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Click to collapse
the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Steven -
Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.
I doubt they care but who knows...
so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....
That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.
It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.
Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.
peace.
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
steven814 said:
This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.
Click to expand...
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Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.
The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)
I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.
Just my 2/3 of a nickel.
GliTCH82 said:
It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.
The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.
Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.
Think about it.
Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).
I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.
Does't surprise me in the slightest.
I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
esseff said:
I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.
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I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider
My 2c
I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.
yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging...
Come on guys!
Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.
I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.
I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.
Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.
We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.
In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader
They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).
This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.
Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.
Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.
on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....
its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now
but i do agree with you sleuth!
Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365
Kinda proves my point.
Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.
I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.
The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....
Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.
My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.
Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.
This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.
Sleuth255 said:
Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.
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Click to collapse
HTC should put JTAG out in its new models
Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.
So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...
But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.
on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..
I am currently running DCD 3.0.4 and considering upgrading to 3.1.2.
However, I have been reading that a new rom (diamond based or otherwise) is "around the corner".
From those who actually know:
What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post.
As always, thank you for all your hard work on behalf of us undeserving peons.
It'll be soon.
Patience is a virtue.
why do people have to respond like that.
It's rude, disrespectful, and annoying.
he wasn't being impatient. he was just curious.
I've done the same before.
By asking that question, he doesn't mean "hurry up" or "why isn't it ready yet"
he just wants to know, because flashing takes time (to backup and restore etc..) and obviously, he doesn't want to go through all that to flash to dcd 3.1.2, if dcd 3.1.3 is about to get released.
it's really pretty simple
WOW...I didnt find anything wrong with that anwser...In fact I thought it was rude asking that question in the first place..
"What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post"
Considering GCINCOTTA is a developer/tester in this community and contributes daily... I think your a little out of line here.
Considering when you flash a dcd rom...he will probly be the one helping you..or at least would have
A MOD SHOULD DELETE|CLOSE THIS THREAD ANYWAY SINCE IT HAS NO VALUE
prepsssuck said:
WOW...I didnt find anything wrong with that anwser...In fact I thought it was rude asking that question in the first place..
"What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post"
Considering GCINCOTTA is a developer/tester in this community and contributes daily... I think your a little out of line here.
Considering when you flash a dcd rom...he will probly be the one helping you..or at least would have
A MOD SHOULD DELETE|CLOSE THIS THREAD ANYWAY SINCE IT HAS NO VALUE
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I have to agree with your post - I was new to this only a month or so ago - without DCD and GCINCOTTA - I would never have even attempted doing this to my phone. Due to their help and tireless work/posting/etc, I have a phone that has working GPS, Fast internet downloads, software that I never would have even known about if not for them.
Like the 'OP, I am looking forward to their latest work, however, I can appreciate the time/effort/energy that goes into this and am patiently awaiting their latest release(s).
Due to their timeless help, I have experimented with several roms throughout this board and on other boards, but if they didn't start me off with their patient explanations, I might not have ever gotten to this point (or even known about this).
Thanks and kudos to the experts here that help out - they know who they are.
SyXbiT said:
why do people have to respond like that.
It's rude, disrespectful, and annoying.
he wasn't being impatient. he was just curious.
I've done the same before.
By asking that question, he doesn't mean "hurry up" or "why isn't it ready yet"
he just wants to know, because flashing takes time (to backup and restore etc..) and obviously, he doesn't want to go through all that to flash to dcd 3.1.2, if dcd 3.1.3 is about to get released.
it's really pretty simple
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Holy smoke, no reason to get all butt hurt. the answer was polite and quite good. gcincotta knows how lame sprint is with their time frames and was just letting the person know to be a bit patient.
"feeelings......nothing more than feeeelings"
it has nothing to do with sprint, and their time frames.
he was asking about a new DCD release.
i'm not butt hurt, i've just seen these kinds of comments all too often.
yes, we're all grateful for DCD and all those that help in ROM dev.
I've seen a simple curious question get attacked (as though the attacker is somehow defending - and sucking up to - their idol, the ROM maker)
you get comments like "this guy does it for free, don't rush him, be grateful."
I agree entirely with those statements, but, asking an approx timeframe is just to avoid constant reformatting.
I personally don't care what the answer is, if it's "soon" or "a long way off" I don't care when it comes, as I know it's free. I just like knowing. (I'm sure we've all reformatted, flash, and got everything set up to see a newer ROM release 4 mins later. it's kinda annoying
wooooooah.. someone need to get layed.. calm down peepz we all equalz..
The point of the post was not to get people riled up. I am sorry.
The point was to calm people down and give them a concept of expectations.
We all know that if you think something is coming in 30 seconds and it doesnt come for half hour, you go crazy. If you think its coming in an hour, then you are surprised by the early release.
It's all a matter of expectations.
I only wrote
"If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post."
so that I didnt get replies like "I'm sure it'll be any minute!" which would only fan the flames of people's impatience.
I did not mean to be impatient or ingratious. I just wanted to potentially save myself (and perhaps others) a few hours of time.
I thought it was relevant to the community when DCD (or others) are expecting to release an upgrade and I have still not, as of yet, received any form of substantive answer.
SyXbiT said:
it has nothing to do with sprint, and their time frames.
he was asking about a new DCD release.
i'm not butt hurt, i've just seen these kinds of comments all too often.
yes, we're all grateful for DCD and all those that help in ROM dev.
I've seen a simple curious question get attacked (as though the attacker is somehow defending - and sucking up to - their idol, the ROM maker)
you get comments like "this guy does it for free, don't rush him, be grateful."
I agree entirely with those statements, but, asking an approx timeframe is just to avoid constant reformatting.
I personally don't care what the answer is, if it's "soon" or "a long way off" I don't care when it comes, as I know it's free. I just like knowing. (I'm sure we've all reformatted, flash, and got everything set up to see a newer ROM release 4 mins later. it's kinda annoying
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GC is a major tester for DCD and his ROMs. show some respect, he was giving you accurate information as a source.
aguas said:
GC is a major tester for DCD and his ROMs. show some respect, he was giving you accurate information as a source.
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accurate yes, but the OP asked for specific, if GC had said something like "i work with DCD on the roms, but neither of us can give you anything specific, but it should b soon" we probably would have avoided every subsequent post in this thread
defaultdotxbe said:
accurate yes, but the OP asked for specific, if GC had said something like "i work with DCD on the roms, but neither of us can give you anything specific, but it should b soon" we probably would have avoided every subsequent post in this thread
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agreed.
as far as 'accurate information' ???
he said nothing at all!
These people dont do this for a living...they have no deadlines or executives breathing down there back for a release...G was stating that i will be soon...like after the major bugs are addressed...There is no timeline....He could have lied and said tomorrow at 12:37 am
Tell me lies! Tell me sweet little lies!
Now watch it come out tomorrow at 12:37 am...lol...would be sweet if it did though
I thought the OP was a fair question because he wanted to know it he should flash dcd3.1.2 or wait for the diamond inspired roms. I though gc's answer was also fair. He said "it will be soon... (so).. have patience" i.e. don't flash dcd3.1.2 if it is a hassle for you because, with patience, the diamond inspired roms will come.
Now if you really want to have a laugh at people getting their hopes dashed by a missed timeframe you should check out the Athena Project thread. I had weeks of amusement reading that thread. And you know who they were flaming for missing a deadline? - olipro! yeah they guy who made it all possible was getting flamed because he got hammered instead of meeting a deadline. (For those who dont know, without olipros hard and soft SPLs we could not unlock our HTC phones and flash unsigned roms)
So to save themselves the flames and disappointments it is normal for dcd et al to say "soon" rather than "12.37am tomorrow".
As others have pointed out, these guys do this in their spare time, and with the wings in stanley cup finals, some of them are busy at the moment.
Now my 2c worth on the OP question. If you have dcd3.0.4 working well and you are happy with it, I would not see much reason to flash dcd3.1.2 just at the moment. I tried it and have since gone back to dcd3.0.4 and am very happy with it. Although I did flash and keep the new radio 3.39 but to be honest I don't see a great difference.
Um, I believe the OP said....
From those who actually know:
What kind of timeframe are we talking about?
If you don't know anything specific, please do not respond to this post.
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I would like to believe that common sense would have been applied when I responded.
I think my question was fair. I was, and am, being patient. I wasn't trying to be rude or obnoxious or ungrateful.
I think that GC was trying to be helpful, but his post didn't add anything useful as it ignored my request for something specific. Had he not responded at all, I would have known what I know now about the release date - namely nothing.
The great irony is that not one of you knew anything specific, yet you all replied to my post.
Thanks to maccaberry for the constructive input.
I think that GC was trying to be helpful, but his post didn't add anything useful as it ignored my request for something specific.
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I'm afraid "soon" is as specific as it gets at the moment. When work is being done, there is no specific timeframe. Whenever it's tested and working up to standard, it gets released. I could have said something like...in about a week, though something could break in a week that puts if off for another two weeks. Then we'd have new threads and posts saying "I thought it was going to be in about a week..."
gc....you and dc etc. are the reason why meatheads like myself dont still use a rotary phone lol. keep up the good work and keep the good replies coming witt is often needed but not often understood.
Hello all,
Spoke with a few people today from UTStarcom and Verizon and got quite a bit of information about this long awaited update. Figured I'd share with you.
Called UTStarcom and spoke with Orlando, an engineer with them. He forwarded an internal memo to me (I can't post it on here, don't bother asking). I can tell you what was in it though.
The update is complete and was received by Verizon mid June.
Rom version number is 3.36.605.0. I know a lot of you are going to say "but we already have 3.56 blah blah", but those are Sprint updates and just because the version number is different, doesn't mean it's not newer.
The update addresses the following (straight from the memo):
-Update to Windows Mobile 6.1
-Update to EVDO Rev. A
-Update location based services (GPS)
-Update bluetooth profiles
Update is complete on their end, waiting on Verizon to give the go ahead. He said he would speak to his superiors and find more info and for me to call back Thursday (he gave me his extension).
I called Verizon and spoke to Wes, a WDTS Tier 3 Tech.
He confirmed what Orlando told me. The completed update was received by Verizon and has been in final testing. The last update he had was July 3, been in testing for a while with no problems. Projected release set for end of the month/early August.
He also told me it's been so long due to the fact that they decided to add WM 6.1 (previously it was only expected to address EVDO Rev A / GPS)
Fugg yes!
Now, does this potentially include aGPS? Will we get the lock times of Sprint? Any other potential goodies that could be included? Lastly, what will DCD be looking to extract to improve in his ROMs?
Dude, you rule.
Can't wait...
Now I have to check the vzw or utstar sites every day!
thundaar2000 said:
Can't wait...
Now I have to check the vzw or utstar sites every day!
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Where would you look on Utstarcom if it were there? I know it is not yet but I can't even find anything close except this and it is a dead link here.
Link please...
serfboreds said:
Where would you look on Utstarcom if it were there? I know it is not yet but I can't even find anything close except this and it is a dead link here.
Link please...
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Perhaps... here???
http://handsets.utstar.com/view_phone_details.aspx?mcode=XV6800
Idk though, they didn't update the sprint one yet
Excellent news GC - hopefully it might add some more functionality to the GPS, although with your fix, it seems to work really well now!
Thanks for the info!
scrawnyb said:
Perhaps... here???
http://handsets.utstar.com/view_phone_details.aspx?mcode=XV6800
Idk though, they didn't update the sprint one yet
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Thanks, this is great. I am sure GC or DCD will have this dissected well before it hits Slorizon's website (or the UTStarcom one you posted), but it is exciting none the less.
I'll be sure NOT to hold my breath waiting on their release
So...did you happen to ask him about what it would take for an "Accidental" leak of the beta? Because I am sure a few of us would drop some money into an unknown Paypal account if such a thing were to happon.
OK... so I'm not trying to be a bad news guy, but I pretty much got the exact same story from UTStarcom back in April, but the release date was May.
When I called in May they said it was release to VZW and was up to them to do something with it. I never was able to get anyone at VZW to admit they had the update (in fact some really bad Help guy yesterday told me that a) any updates would come from the mantufacturer and not VZW, and b) anything, and I mean ANY application you add to the PPC is bad for it and will cause it to slow down. (He was a real piece of work, and when I asked what about things like Microsoft's Live Search which was MADE by MS for this type of phone, he said ANYTHING would basically bog it down and if it stopped VZW would not replace it... schmuck).
Anyway... the UTSarcom site is a good one... but where might we search for Verizon updates???
I am surprised anyone told you anything except "let me check another system....no, I don't see anything here....you may want to keep checking the website if they ever have updates for the phone," schmucks for real. Speaking to higher tier techs is probably more realistic information as they will be seeing memos that other people will not.
Anyways, here is the XV6800 page on vzw:
http://support.vzw.com/phones/index.html?p=3411
OK... so I'm not trying to be a bad news guy, but I pretty much got the exact same story from UTStarcom back in April, but the release date was May.
When I called in May they said it was release to VZW and was up to them to do something with it. I never was able to get anyone at VZW to admit they had the update (in fact some really bad Help guy yesterday told me that a) any updates would come from the mantufacturer and not VZW, and b) anything, and I mean ANY application you add to the PPC is bad for it and will cause it to slow down. (He was a real piece of work, and when I asked what about things like Microsoft's Live Search which was MADE by MS for this type of phone, he said ANYTHING would basically bog it down and if it stopped VZW would not replace it... schmuck).
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If you read my post you'd see that I asked about what you're referring to. The "release date" for May was for EVDO Rev A & GPS. They decided to add WM 6.1 at the last minute, which prolonged it. The difference is, you never got anyone from Verizon to admit to it, while I have spoken to several people since May who all have confirmed it.
You guys have to trust that I know what I'm doing....this hasn't been my first time calling and I know what to ask. They pretty much know me by name now when I call lol. In fact, I don't hang up until I speak with someone who knows what they're talking about.
As far as the update itself goes, it will be on HTC's site when it's available, not UTStarcom's or Verizon's.
OK thanks... I had been to that page many times before, but didn't know that they might post anything like a ROM update there.
We'll see....
And yes, senior techs are probably better... just didn't have the time to wait yesterday.
gc14 said:
As far as the update itself goes, it will be on HTC's site when it's available, not UTStarcom's or Verizon's.
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Do you have a link for where you would look for this upgrade on HTC.com? I know you and DCD will be releasing ROMs before I find it but curiosity reigns supreme.
This is what I found but I don't think this is anything more than a marketing page:
http://tytnseries.htc.com/htctytn.html
http://www.htcamerica.net/support/support-product.html
It will be posted on this site under the appropriate phone. Since there have not been any updates for VZW you won't find the xv6800. Correct me if I am wrong GC.
Do you have a link for where you would look for this upgrade on HTC.com? I know you and DCD will be releasing ROMs before I find it but curiosity reigns supreme.
This is what I found but I don't think this is anything more than a marketing page:
http://tytnseries.htc.com/htctytn.html
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First, that link is for the TyTN, not the Titan. 2 Different phones. The TyTN is actually the HTC Hermes, as the TyTN II is the HTC Kaiser.
Second, when it's available you'll be able to find it here:
http://www.htc.com/us/FAQ_Detail.aspx?p_id=82&act=faq&cat=268
except when it's released, there'll be an icon next to "Tips & Tricks" called "Software Download" similar to the Sprint Mogul page located here http://www.htc.com/us/FAQ_Detail.aspx?p_id=75&act=faq&cat=268
gc14 said:
First, that link is for the TyTN, not the Titan. 2 Different phones. The TyTN is actually the HTC Hermes, as the TyTN II is the HTC Kaiser.
Second, when it's available you'll be able to find it here:
http://www.htc.com/us/FAQ_Detail.aspx?p_id=82&act=faq&cat=268
except when it's released, there'll be an icon next to "Tips & Tricks" called "Software Download" similar to the Sprint Mogul page located here http://www.htc.com/us/FAQ_Detail.aspx?p_id=75&act=faq&cat=268
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Thanks, thats the link I was looking for. You are one resourceful dude GC.
Do you work in the phone industry?
Do you work in the phone industry?
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Nope. Computer Engineer specialized in Embedded Systems Design
Sweet
Maybe this seems a bit off subject, but why would a company with proprietary information share there potential release dates and internal memos with a guy that calls in a lot for tech support?
Hope that doesnt sound rude, its more me just being inquisitive. Essentially, how do you manage to be seen as someone worth sharing that information with?
http://phandroid.com/2010/10/05/skype-for-android-now-available-worldwide/
Edit
that's right, is doesn't work on the Vibrant.
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
amorek13 said:
guess what it does not work on vibrant 2.1
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It appears that it doesn't work on any galaxy s phone..
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
It's a POS app
no Video calling
no group calling
They waited this long to release this Garbage?
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
Galaxy S owners get the shaft ... yet again! Maybe we should just recognize the fact that AT&T/iPhone 4 is the best game in town and quit trying to play catch up.
There is a GPS fix that allows it to work excellent. Get over it.
dcchristopher said:
Well, at least we all now know a little more about the two of you. I don't blame you entirely for your disgraceful behavior. Surely your upbringing had a lot to do with it.
I don't see how what I said was inflammatory but perhaps it was misperceived. Allow me to explain: I paid $500 for this device. I honestly don't even need the phone aspect of it. I just need it to access the internet (email, web, etc), then as a media player, and then occasionally as a GPS device. The calling capabilities are literally icing on the cake. Let's just skip the whole GPS part since that needs no introduction. It simply doesn't work (unless you consider your location jumping around every 10 seconds "working" ... yeah, what fun it is to be hearing erroneous directions from your GPS device). T-mobile's voice and data services have been quite paltry in my experience. Calls drop quite often and that's something many Tmo subscribers complain about, especially near downtown and on a NexusOne. Moreover, data takes FOREVER to connect. I could be getting 4mbps/2mbps one second, then 750k/300k the next, then incessant data connection attempts with no data being transmitted ... until I reboot my phone. WTF??? A month ago I was driving from Dallas to San Antonio and got nothing but Edge the whole way down ... all along an interstate highway (albeit one of the worst I've ever seen) ... the phone was even occasionally switching to "G" and it took me forever to remember what that stood for ... GPRS!!! I haven't seen that since the 90s.
If you guys think it is acceptable to get ripped off like that, for hardware and services, by all means continue condoning and promoting Tmo and Sammy's failures and inaction by rewarding them for all that. These phones went on sale 7/15, around the same time Tmo announced their HSPA+ network. Three months later, you expect at least "an" action. No credits, no buy-backs, no remedies ... only failed promises. If you bought a car that couldn't perform as advertised and spec'd, I'm sure you would act differently.
But ... judging from your comments above, you guys are entirely worthy of your fate.
Best,
DCC
P.S. I dislike Apple fanboys just as much as the next guy but at some point we all need to man up to the facts ... the iPhone has the best user experience ... and Windows Phone 7 offers the best development experience (trust me, I have written/am writing apps for all three). The only thing positive about Android in my opinion is the tight integration of all the Google apps and services ... which oddly are not favored by many Android fans on this site ... in addition, they are increasingly being integrated in the other platforms as well (albeit not fast enough). Again, why Android? If it's because you want to be this decade's equivalent of the 90s' Linux geek who spends all day customizing the OS and the environment instead of actually using it and putting to good use, then have fun! Don't feel bad ... most people do not learn from history's lessons either!
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Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
As for the OP, Skype went downhill once they went to bed with the big red.
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
lqaddict said:
Believe me I hear you, but you make your case weak. Individual experience differs from Joe to Jane.
The biggest advantage of Android over the other's is the hardware support for every major mobile manufacturer.
And Windows Mobile 7? We will see how the numbers look by the Xmas.
Yes, I am a linux geek, but I didn't purchase my phone because I am one.
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I really wanted Android to succeed but it hasn't and I'm not necessarily blaming Android itself. I just don't see how I can choose it when the hardware and carrier are dropping the ball. All three (OS, hardware, carrier) are part and parcel. "Hardware support" is not enough when the hardware itself is not cutting it. First the Hero had build quality and connectivity issues, now the Vibrant has an elusive Froyo build and major GPS issues (in response to a previous post, I have yet to see a truly working "fix" and I have installed most if not all of them ... whoever claims it's now perfectly working is smoking something he/she should share with the rest of us).
Thank you for keeping an open mind and I do agree with you that individual experiences will vary but let's agree that this forum is proof that there are major unaddressed problems with this phone.
junkdruggler said:
So why do you have a tmo vibrant? Why not get an i*hone? There are pros and cons to any device and any carrier...
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Thank you for applying intelligence and not resorting to childish name-calling ... simply put, I left AT&T after a decade of being their customer because my non-iPhone superphones (usually purchased from abroad but compatible with US 3G) were being intentionally disregarded by their network in favor of the iPhone devices out there ... $110 a month for a discriminating data service is not acceptable. iPhones are also a little "too user-friendly" for me. I preferred a more open platform. At this point though, I will settle for a device that "just works". That is what every iPhone user will tell you out there ... the s*** just works. A phone is something that should enable you to do things with it, whether it's productivity, app development, multimedia, services, etc. A phone is not a perpetual hack factory, at least not as a primary device. If people want a side project to play with, great. What I have seen on this forum though is that most people need a phone that works for them, not the other way around.
I am waiting for the first generation WP7 phones to roll out and see what drama will ensue, if any. As you very astutely stated, "there are pros and cons to any device and any carrier". I really enjoy the WP7 mobile app development environment and so long as the phones are not involved in yet another fiasco, I will most likely get one. If not, the iPhone it is.
I'm not trolling and I do not mean to offend hard-core Linux super-users/developers but this business of shoddy phones, shoddy service and endless "hacking" is not right when we're all paying 50-100 a month for service and 200-500 for devices. I am surprised that people are not up in arms about it. There really needs to be a class-action lawsuit over this. I know, a handful of lawyers will just make a shipload of money. Still, companies cannot get away with this sort of negligence. This isn't the first time and it sure as heck won't be the last.
Vote with your dollars and best luck to you,
DCC
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
lqaddict said:
If browse over the iphone forums you will see the plethora of posts complaining about this and that on the iphone too.
There is no magic cookie cater for anything, you will always find something to be not up to your standards.
What confuses me the most is people complaining about the features that are not being the prime in the market cliché they are shopping - for instance, neither Android nor iOS are good examples of the enterprise use, but people still insist that my phone does not integrate well with my corporate Exchange environment the way I *want* hence the product sucks.
Everything has its pluses and minuses, it's up to an individual to weigh in the pros and cons to make a conscious buying decision.
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Click to collapse
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
PaiPiePia said:
It's really disheartening to see android sinking like this because if googles ignorant attitude. I agree with you, if google woukd be a bit more proactive like Apple or Microsoft (now that they revamped) and set a standard for the OS requirement, quality control. We can all breath better. I have a bad feeling that once wm7 hit, Android will be the new WM6.5, a cheap buggy and unorganized akternative for manuftre and carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for chiming in. Hopefully Android will survive, even if only because competition is a good thing. I think most of the issues faced today (so-called fragmentation, etc) will be resolved in the re-architecture being introduced in Android 3.0. I'm more concerned about the carriers and hardware manufacturers closing up shop after a phone has been released and only looking forward to the next model. What good is it if Android survives and succeeds if I am the one left holding the dud? "Oh, just pay another two to five hundred dollars." The worst part is that the user/owner community turns a blind eye to the egregious failures in the name of fandom. That is NOT the way to organize and effect change.
dcchristopher said:
I really want to say "I hear ya" but here's the deal ...
a) I glanced over the iPhone fora and I am not seeing anything glaring ... mostly basic user ignorance (configuration / customization issues)
b) all the iPhone users I have asked what their biggest complaint is about their phone give me the same "huh?" look ... their phone just works
c) all the major issues with iPhone 4 were addressed with some sort of fix or another, even if all it took was a rubber band ... I have friends who exchanged their phone well after the 30 days because of the proximity sensor issue (just as an example) ... clearly, Apple took ownership of resolving the deal-breaking issues
When I walked into a T-mobile store after the first 30 days and said "I will not put up with this GPS BS" they kindly restated their return policy, gave me Samsung's support number and sent me on my not-so-merry way. When I contacted Samsung, I was told to simply wait for the update as there was no fix for it so a replacement wouldn't accomplish anything. The customer service rep literally laughed when I mentioned a return of the product for refund.
You're absolutely right ... there will always be issues but this isn't a matter of preference or individual taste ... these companies are failing to deliver what they promised and what we have paid for and rightfully deserve. I am in no way saying that the iPhone is perfect; I'm sure I would have something to complain about from time to time ... but when I borrow friends' phones to "play" with, the iPhone is fast and responsive and hasn't failed me once. Load SpeedTest side-by-side. The "Begin Test" button lights up literally instantly. I know the Galaxy S phones have the same hardware. Why is it they can't be as responsive?
As I previously mentioned, I was with AT&T (or one of the companies it acquired or merged with) for over a decade until the Hero came out and I switched to Sprint. Then I went to T-mobile for the Vibrant. I will just make my rounds until I find something that works. My problem is that I get way too overexcited about the technology and jump ship before it has had a chance to prove itself. Right now the iPhone 4 has proved itself fairly well. As I said though, as a mobile apps developer, I really want WP7 to work out so I will _try_ to wait and see. The development experience is "magnifique!"
Best,
DCC
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I guess I went to the apple forums before the proximity sensor issues were resolved, and it was Vibrant GPS Redux over there.
I am glad that Apple took care of the problem after a few updates to their iOS, but as with the GPS issues on our phones the proximity sensor should've been caught during the QA, I am not gonna say anything about Antennagate.
Hopefully GPS will be patched for good on the Vibrant too, and no I do not need the proof that it is addressed with the latest update - faster locks does not mean accuracy.
scrizz said:
Fring was doing an excellent job, until Skype shut them down.
UGH SKYPE is a POS company
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Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
cdill3000 said:
Its those bloody Iphone Users that were clogging up the servers using Fring that caused fring to gett banned from skype
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Don't let Skype off the hook though ... I used to be a big fan of theirs but they've been very slow with delivering platform-specific clients and they seem to be playing favorites and such. Closing the door on fring, a very, very open solution out there, was a deplorable thing to do.
It doesn't matter folks ... when Google comes out with their VOIP service, and you KNOW they will (Gizmo5 acquisition, etc), all these other (dis-)services will be obliterated. I predict Google will establish its own data-only cell carrier (cause data is all you need anyway) ... hopefully within the next 2-3 years.
I know this thread kinda derailed off topic, but imma put my two cents in.
I do kinda agree with DCC, at my workplace pretty much everyone has some sort of smart phone. When the subject of phones comes up, I am the first one to bang my chest and yell ANDROID~!
But the sad truth is, iphone users like the iphone because IT DOES WHAT THEY NEED IT TO DO. they really dont care about all the stuff we have come to love about android.
So they are happy and content, while we are up till the wee hrs of the morning trying to make our phones have a milli-second faster lol.
And to me its not really trying to make our phones better than the iphone, its me just making my phone better than it was.
I am disappointed in samsung about the lag issue and the gps issue.
I dont complain about it though, cause we are all here at this website to make our phones better than it is from stock. and I am 100 percent sure , once its said and done, this phone will more than satisfy me.
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
cashless said:
As far as I've read, Fring violated Skype's API and when they were challenged Fring, instead of changing their code, resolved to drop Skype support altogether. It's basically Fring's fault for not playing according to the rules. Fring issued a statement saying that Skype blocked them. It's an unlikely story since Skype has a fairly open API and would be leaving itself open to lawsuit if they did so.
blogs.skype.com/en/2010/07/fring.html
Where are you guys reading or hearing these things from?
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Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
dcchristopher said:
Umm, definitely NOT from either side's highly partial blog, that's for sure ... which, by the way, you are misquoting. Fring did not drop Skype support all together. They temporarily disabled video calls because Skype and the carriers were *****ing about it (due to the excessive load on their networks). Then they were suddenly blocked from routing connections through Skype. This is an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring who stands alone and is one of the most open companies out there.
I get it, no one here really knows what happened when and why but ... Skype is no victim. On the other hand, the Objectivist in me says Skype should have every right to deny Fring (or any individual, company or group in the world) access to their systems. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of being all sly about it.
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Saying that a company violated API publicly when they didn't is libel.
Just answer the question, your smugness, where did you get your info (especially seeing as you're stating that it's an obvious behind-closed-doors ganging up of Skype+carrier(s) against Fring. I guess you're one of these people behind these closed doors?
Lemme get your "jump to conclusions" board for you.
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
What do you think of having everyone from XDA and the CM community using the DINC 4G LTE file Better Business Bureau complaints against verizon? It made a business decision not to give us updates, and has deliberately removed the DINC 4g from the HTC Unlock program. They shouldn't be allowed to abandon the platform and to remove unlocking ability that was there.
BBB asks them to respond within 14 days. [edit: link removed]
or have you already tried this route?
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I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal). HTC can justify the ability to unlock the bootloader pre-public availability as a means to let developers directly related to software development and quality assurance alter the ROM before release. To a handful of end users who get the device in the early days of release, they get to sneak in and use the unlocker under the "Other devices" category of the program. I suspect we owe HTC a thank you for dragging their feet for a week before disabling the unlock ability for this (and several other) device(s). There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
On the topic of abandoning the platform, software-wise, the last available software update for the Incredible 4G still works with reasonable stability and all advertised features are enabled. It is natural for technology devices to age and need replacement; a balance has to be struck between user content or disdain and extent of support. Verizon has apparently deemed there will be very little blowback by prematurely ending software updates. Considering the number of users I see in the XDA forum section for this phone, I'd guess they're right. About the only sticking point that could be leveraged to force a software update out of Verizon is if there are security vulnerabilities that are either being actively exploited or pose a real threat of being exploited in the near future.
Succinctly, we are at the mercy of Verizon's "generosity" concerning extended functionality of, and software updates for, the phones on their network. With these thoughts, I believe we can only ask them to help us out... with reason, anger, begging, or whatever tactic you find most influential. I don't think we can force their hand.
Your thoughts XDAers?
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone. While I did not expect this phone to be the left-handed, red-haired step-child twice removed orphan of Verizon, it is a great phone with a 4" screen. The size is good (still prefer OG Droid) and the processor and internet speeds are great. I personally am quite content with this phone. We have been blessed with some extremely talented developers and supporters who have
Developed a method to unlock despite HTC/Verizon
Developed two methods for s-off:
DirtyRacun - IMHO, unlimited.io did a great job
FacePalm - Haven't tried, but looks great
Two great recoveries:
Official CWM Recovery, Plus PhilZ
TWRP Recovery
Developed an Incredible Rock Solid Sense ROM in ViperLTE
Developed a solid, official CyanogenMod ROM .
There are probably more, but those are just off of the top of my head. I am also still seeing great ongoing development work for ROMs for this phone. Sure, this phone doesn't have the plethora of ROMs that the OG Droid, Dinc2, Rezound, or [insert model here], but what we do have is solid.
I'm not exactly sure what Verizon owes us. We have a great phone with a great 4GLTE network (at least in my area). It should also be noted that Verizon actually put out an OTA for the OG Dinc around 2+ years after its release with "Improvements and fixes". I would expect the same for this phone as well. I too believe that threats, anger, etc. will not do anything more than generate ill will.
Just my $0.03.
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock? As mentioned above, we have a proved method to unlock bootloader and/or gain s-off. Even HTC's site says that unlocking bootloader through their "official" site may void your warranty.
HTC Dev said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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The only thing to take away from this is to avoid Verizon and HTC. They may not owe us anything more than we received, but they are clearly sub-par companies compared to others. Unfortunately, I can't ditch Verizon just now because I'm on a shared plan, but I will never buy an HTC phone again.
junkmail9 said:
I agree with mdmower. Having come from the OG Droid, I had zero expectation for HTC or Verizon to let me unlock the phone....
P.S. Why do we still care if there is an "official" bootloader unlock?
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Just to clarify, I'm not content with the support Verizon has offered for this phone, I just realize that we cannot expect them to continue support. I am still not sure about the best avenues of communication with Verizon Wireless, so in a feeble attempt to get their attention, I write a short #openletter on G+.
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
The open letter seems pointless, besides maybe allowing other people to see and take note that Verizon ignores certain customers. As far as our phone though, no point really. Anyone you reach through G+, Facebook, Twitter, Verizon's customer service contacts, etc. will have no real power to do anything. They just give the typical "sorry, we're doing our best" garbage. The message never reaches anyone important enough to actually do anything. The only way a message may get to them is if the user base is very large, but even if we all wrote to them everyday it wouldn't help. Not enough people for them to care. As you said, we're at their mercy. Just have to wait.
mdmower said:
A far as the official bootloader unlock, it is a little important. An example is the recently advertised CM installer (by the way, I do not have any insider knowledge about CM Inc.). The installer will almost surely be available only to devices with legitimate unlock ability. While the fireball is pretty much "a bit"-out-of-luck even if it did get official unlock, due to the inability to flash the boot partition while in recovery, at some point users need to convince Verizon Wireless to allow unlocked bootloaders for phones on their network. This is especially relevant to the many, many users who are wise enough to not tinker with their phones because of lack of knowledge. They deserve the opportunity to safely replace the legacy operating system on their phone, and this will only be possible if the carrier and manufacturer allow it.
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This is an excellent point I had not considered. I was not thinking about the larger issue, (nor am I savvy with the upcoming CM installer). Unfortunately, I have run into a few companies that have seriously dummied down their products because, as one tech support person told me, "some users may have a problem with the advanced features so we removed them." While I can try and understand that point, it was really frustrating because some advanced features I had come to rely on were removed in the product upgrade. Simply because some people could not comprehend how to use it properly? Is Verizon trying to protect us from ourselves, dummy down the phones for "the uneducated masses," or simply trying to force their customers to live with Verizon-installed bloatware?
Okay I have My own say to this.!
Okay so I left AT&T network when I owned the HTC Inspire 4g and moved on to Verizon because there service was better in my area and I purchased the HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE as my first phone with Verizon, I came to like the phone because it was fast, snappy, and good on battery....... But I constantly waited for update to jellybean ( Sense 4+ ) which in reality would make the device more efficient and smoother than it was on Ice Cream Sandwich... And finally I heard the news that we were going to get an update to jellybean in the beginning of 2013.. But after so much time of waiting I finally gave up hope and said ***k the device and went back to AT&T...... and bought the HTC One XL because it recieved updates to sense 5. The device is like an older sibling to the inc4g with close to the same specs. I sold the Incredible 4g because I hated the lack of support for this device... The only good thing going for it was CM10 and the amazing sense kernel. This community deserves more than what has been given to them so far... So my question is why Verizon drop support for us.???? If this community received jelly bean j defiantly would sell my XL and come back to this community......
This is my only my concern.
Sincerely,
24ky
Sent from my HTC One XL using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds". i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago ( also how come htc bent over backwards because verizon wanted the bootload unlock for the ONE removed). instead of open letters or angry tweets and emails, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you. how do you think verizon got so good? the used to listen to their customers. now that they are self sustaining they dont need to listen to us anymore. but i bet if their wallet was hit the would. they would bring back unlimited data, remove the block of google wallet, ect....
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
synisterwolf said:
Here is a weird thought. let your money do the talking. leave Verizon. if enough of us leave we dont need to "change their minds" i brought this up in an HTC elevate detection not to long ago. instead of open letters or angry tweets, just take your money to someone that appreciates you as a customer? put your money into a company that understands the development community and is willing to support you.
You wouldn't take your car to a mechanic that does great work but also makes you spend $$ money on things that don't need to be fixed.
my $.02
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This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
somerandomname1 said:
This is my point from before. This is the only thing you can really do. I wish I could dump Verizon right now, but I can't. For now I'll just settle for never buying HTC again.
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this too. maybe if HTC where to step in and help us it would be different.
OP not trying to troll or anything or start a war. i just wanted to get that out their. we do have an option to take our money somewhere else. or at least when this contract is over. ive said it before, i need unlimited data. i dont have wifi anywhere i work and im barely at home so if i have to give up my data plan i will give up my business too. im going to miss there unbeatable coverage but i cant stand to be hit in the balls over and over again with a smile on their face. :/
mdmower said:
I received the below e-mail today. I did not appreciate being contacted out of the blue via e-mail; if you feel the need to contact me, use XDA's tagging feature. With that said, I thought I'd reply in public with my thoughts on the matter, hoping to drive a constructive conversation about Verizon Wireless' restrictions for devices on their network. My initial response is in post 2.
Please, think through your responses before posting. Make sure they ADD to the conversation.
I will leave it up to the writer of the e-mail if he/she would like to make himself/herself known here.
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My 2 cents on this from bitter experience. You will get zilch. You will waste precious amounts of your life trying hard to convince a rigid management who can care so little they'd be happy to break your phone to pieces and hand you another from their stockpile of dinc4g's just to get rid of them ASAP. I've gone through the whole lot with BBB complaints etc. for the Droid X2 by Motorola. haha, wasted my life there. And the countless pleadings to release the ICS ROM that HTC clearly developed for the Dinc2 (Incredible S, international variant got the ICS update) only to get on the Verizon chopping block and get its head unceremoniously severed, taught me one thing and that is we as consumers have knowingly chosen this path, that will give us limited to no flexibility on customization to stay on VZW and we have to "deal" with it.
With all good intentions, I request all to keep your expectations rock bottom. You have better chances of going to the moon on a future Russian spacecraft than convincing Verizon as to why this may be a good idea.
Sincerely,
A disgruntled Droid™ user.
here has been my android experience. started on og inc oct 2010 first droid phone considered ''high-end'' at the time (8 mp camera saaaaay whaaaat??!) then dinc2 great phone but compared to the galaxy S II and the galaxy nexus at the time it was a ''mid range" phone. now with the inc4g it is very ''mid range'' compared to what is out now. the galaxy notes and s4's and the 50 different htc One(s). if you want many different roms to flash to fix your ''addiction'' go nexus or one of the mainstream phones. you will find 100 different "Unofficial CM10.X" roms with "user tweaks" and "kernel tweaks" that in all actuality are nothing more then a reposync from source. yeah they might have a few different mods but they are usually so similar that you will not/could not tell the difference. like someone mentioned earlier I would rather have a few solid roms. a good sense (viper) or if you're an aosp guy like me there's cm. I think anybody who saw the specs of this phone (incredible 4g) and thought, "hey this is going to be the next BIG THING." I'm sorry to tell you that you were mistaken. xda dev support of a phone is only as good as the devs that own the device, and in our case we have a very small amount of active devs.
So I am the a-hole that emailed mdmower. I apologize profusely. When I saw your first post, I almost slunk away in shame, never to show my face here again. I am not even being a little bit facetious. You do great work for a community of people and I abused (what obviously is) an important rule. And I'm really sorry.
In an attempt to redeem myself just a little bit, let me point out one thing that you might not know:
mdmower said:
Can you point to a single advertisement by either HTC or Verizon that the Droid Incredible 4G LTE would ever be included in HTCDev's unlocked bootloader program? Even HTC's generic advertisements include disclaimers that some devices may not be included due to various restrictions (the most obvious being carrier refusal) [SNIP] There is no legitimate complaint that can be filed towards Verizon concerning this matter since they never advertised this as an available feature.
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Actually, some states may have more favorable law here. First and foremost, many states have an unfair/deceptive business practices law that are distinct from the false advertising law. Example: New York has GBL Section 349 (trade practices), and 350 (Advertising). These are consumer-oriented statutes and so they have some bite.
On this point, while Verizon has never said they would provide us with Jelly Bean, there are some nice facts here like how many people were locked into 2 year contracts on a phone that Verizon stopped updating during their two year period. I've seen suggestions that Verizon is pulling this with older phones in order to force upgrades, and if true, that would be the basis for a claim. But here, I think the HTCDev unlock is actually pretty damning. We should be entitled to take discovery into the real reasons why Verizon forced HTC to remove the phone from the program. Given the repeated warnings about waiver of warranty, and the presence of other VZW phones in the program, it's hard to believe it's a support issue.
Finally -- of note is that the ACLU has filed an FTC complaint on this subject earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot post the link since I just registered for this post (long time lurker) but it's the 2nd hit for "april FTC complaint android" (see pages 6-9) Their basis is the potential for security flaws which go unfixed. The relief they are requesting is pretty broad. I'm actually surprised that there haven't been follow-on civil suits already.
Anyway, I am really sorry again. I'm going to crawl back under the rock I came from now.
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
PrimePalaver said:
If it's any comfort: my punishment is that my D4INC is a flicker model.
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Haha burn! Just kidding... it's cool.