It will be possible?
well froyo is doing some problems to the devs.. i think it would be better to get froyo working since gingerbread will take 4 months
NO!
Minimum hardware requirements for Android 3.0 devices are: 1GHZ CPU, 512MB or RAM, displays from 3.5” and higher. (source)
beat me to it.
yea, considering the minimum system requirements for 3.0 I would have to say no. most Hero users cant even overclock past 695MHz so its a no go.
From what Im reading, theyre killing all custom UI with it too. no more Sense, no more Motoblur, no more nothing. just the new stock google UI that theyre working on.
I kinda see it as a good thing. the one problem with Android phones has been that the customization has been too vast. there needs to be more industry standards just like the iphone or we're going to run into phone wars that dont just involve iphone vs android.
I don't think that we won't be able to get Sense etc because that is the beauty of Android,freedom and customization.If we lose a little of both then...I don't know,I just don't want it to turn iPhoney!I think that they only will give a standard UI for apps so that we avoid the current situation,which is that every app has its own UI and there is no consistency.My opinion though...
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
tweedie said:
If the minimum spec is 1Ghz for gingerbread, then all that news about fragmentation that google going on about is a load of rubbish!
I guess it will soon be the end of the road for the htc hero!
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We will first starve to death and then google might face problems!Anyway...Microsoft gave similar specs for WP7 but I've already seen a ported version running on the Diamond!What I've learned here in XDA-Devs is that we can never say never!My opinion?We will see Gingerbread on the Hero but it will never run well or smooth enough...Unless we can change its chipset!
Sent from my HTC Hero using XDA App
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
There's also a Dalvik JIT compiler that improves overall CPU-bound code performance by two to five times compared to version 2.1.
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lost101 said:
Wouldn't the absence of 'HTC Sense' allow JIT to play an even greater role in boosting performance?
Re: Froyo
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Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
Will it be hard...
Hell yeah!!!!
But it isn't impossible just today some developers made ubuntu and Android 2.1 on HTC HD2
tolis626 said:
Nah...I'm sure they can develop some kind of patch to enable JIT with Sense like the ones here on XDA(right now I can remember Feeyo's and Villain's ones).
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Click to collapse
My point was that 'Sense' doesn't seem to benefit from JIT, and that 3.0 will have a superior UI making it unnecessary anyway. If the new UI isn't incredibly demanding (the reason for the 1ghz requirement cited?) and benefits from JIT, chances are that Hero can handle it.
Android 3.0 will also have a completely refreshed user interface. According to UnwiredView, the new UI will resemble the Cooliris-made photo gallery application that's on the Nexus One. It will feature animated transitions between apps and screens.
Google has hired Palm's former webOS user interface designer, Matias Duarte. His new position at Google is with the Android user experience team.
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h**p://tinyurl.com/39s9e3a
I know 2.2 is a different story but I'm curious as to peoples opinions with jit on 2.1 roms since 2.2 is still a little buggy imho.
Well I am running nonsense with jit from froyo (frozen eclair) and netarchy's kernel. I get linpack scores of 19-20, 750 quadrant, and 51 fps. Take that for what its worth. I was getting higher linpack/quadrant scores with CM6, but I am unwilling to sacrifice ALL of my evo's features, namely MMS, consistant cameras, 4G, and qik. Some of these features work for some folks, but not others. You keep all of your evo specific features with a 2.1 rom...
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No, it's not worth it on the Eris it's too unstable. I have a topic about this.
i agree. it's not stable at all. when i first used it, it was working great but over time it started making my phone laggy and just a bunch of problems.
I know that 3.0 is mostly UI improvements but I'm wondering if Google updated the JIT or made any other performance improvements with Gingerbread.
I know there was a CES presentation and we have a gingerbread ROM already... does anyone know if there were speed improvements made?
Oh I got 3.0 and gingerbread confused. I guess I'd be interested in hearing about both! lol
edit:
JVM speed. For Java developers, 2.3 adds a number of speedups, most notably a concurrent garbage collector. According to Google garbage collection pauses will be under 3ms, which is small enough not to be noticed in a 30fps or even 60fps game. New JIT optimizations make Dalvik code run even faster than before.
I remember when 2.2 was coming out we were able to use the JIT on our 2.1 ROMs... will we be able to backport 2.3's JIT?
FWIW, I compared CELBv3.9 to KGBv8 using Linpack @ min=max=748Mhz
(governor set to performance in both cases, but that shouldn't have any effect when min=max)
If you recall, that particular benchmark was/is pretty sensitive to whether JIT is operational.
The results? Over about 10 repeated trials each,
CELBv3.9: 4.75 - 5.05*
KGBv8: 4.68 - 5.28
There is an observable, but modest increase in the peak (maximum) value of the benchmark score in KGBv8 - roughly a 5% increase. But at the same time, note that the "scatter" in the benchmark actually worsened. I take that to mean that in real-world performance, it is unlikely that you will be able to notice a perceptible difference. Hard to know, really - synthetic benchmarks are pretty crappy predictors of the "pleasure of use" for an arbitrary application mix.
* Peak quadrant score was 429 for CELBv3.9 @ 748Mhz - quadrant currently fails in the 3D graphics tests in KGBv8
Thank you bftb0, very interesting results.
I think it's fair to attribute that scatter to the lack of optimization currently in place with that ROM. It is nice to see that it is capable of more though. Certainly when you use that ROM it's easy to see that the stable 2.2 ROMs are still going to give you better real world performance.
And idea as to whether we can backport the 2.3 JIT?
02/12/11: Froyo boots, stability issues resolved, all used modules from source except graphics. Problems: radio does not work, camcorder crashes the camera app, likely more issues. Big thanks to TheBirdman, SuperCurio and all the other devs working like myself out there to make this dream a reality. Gingerbread will come after Froyo is stabilized. As promised progress is being made.
This is not a Blazed kernel but will share in code fixes and versatility.
Thanks to TheBirdman, SuperCurio and others who's patches are pulled from TheBirdmans git to improve Fascinate compatibility.
The Eclair source appeared to be coded by multiple seperate teams simultaniously whilst Froyo source appears to be developed by one team and the sammy sources for the devices with Froyo are incrementally getting more updates as they move from one device to another.
Source will be posted soon, i am traveling right now and wanted to share this breakthrough from earlier today. Hint for those who can not wait the I9000 Samsung source contains almost everything you need except a graphics driver and a proper config, compare fascinate_defconfig, aries_eur_defconfig and the eclair defconfig or pull config from this kernel ;-)
The link below is for an alpha quality non-voodoo test kernel with ext4, ipv6, and full netfilter built in plus alot of extra modules stored in /system/kmodules:
02/16/11: Froyo Source Now Online!
03/10/11: Source pulled from laststufo's ULTIMATE SUPER OPTIMIZED Kernel for Galaxy S I9000
Wifi is working as client, Sound is working again, 3G radio that sometimes worked has stopped working again. This maybe a good thing though as it has indicated we may have been side stepping too much and avoiding drivers that may be more compatible than what we were actually using. The cpu is spot on, the sound is now using wm8994 aries and not wm8994 universal master. I suspect many incompatibilities in the platform still, but progress is being made. I think we were all just seeing too little with tunnel vision because of stress and perhaps a lack of sleep.
There are a number of goodies from laststufo in this tree (ramzswap, compcache, what appear to be usb host otg support just to name a few) non of which I have tested on fascinate but all of which compiled without error. I have tested overclock up to 1200Mhz, it supports up to 1.6Ghz (I would be very careful about anything past 1.2Ghz). VSF (Variable Screen Frequency) sync is broken ( a new feature from laststufo ) until replacement for the accel_xyz function of the smb380 is found, as the smb380 is not supported on the Fascinate, just as the yamaha compass driver is not supported. VSF's purpose is to save battery by reducing screen refresh rate when the device is being used in a minimal activity type situation.
I have not posted working binaries or full source to git yet, but I plan to have a new binary voodoo and non-voodoo up with source hopefully by sometime monday (but please don't hold me to it if I'm a little late)
Source:
GITHUB: http://www.github.com/sirgatez Last Updated 02/12/11
Binaries:
Non-Voodoo: http://db.tt/Y66iNVu - Proof Of Concept Alpha 02/12/11
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
I think I'm in love with you.
Sad news: it would only be bromance.
Anyhow, thank you so much for your hard work, and please keep it up!
It's incredible what you guys can do.
yay.. its just a matter of time till u make some magical work in froyo kernel.
i think punkkaos mentioned in one of his tweets that he was working on kernel, and got hardware acceleration on UI working but had graphical glitches, but he said that it was awesome fast.
Would that be possible here too ?
I will be looking forward to seeing this beast run on my phone once it hits the beta stage.
Maybe I'm mislead, but doesn't the i9000 froyo kernel use an rfs filesystem?
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papstar said:
Maybe I'm mislead, but doesn't the i9000 froyo kernel use an rfs filesystem?
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the nexus s is the only recent Samsung phone not using rfs. The rfs drivers in this kernel are in the stock i9000 source.
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I should have source up by the end of the day heading home from hospital now.
I did some googling, correct me if I am mistaken but I can not seem to find the kernel module source for s3c_bc, s3c_lcd, or pwrsrv outside of Eclair. The eclair module for pwrsrv fails to boot, and the sizes of all 3 compiled binaries do not come close to the froyo ones from samsung. Both s3c modulea are less that or about 100k in froyo, eclair and eclair compiled against froyo are closer to 300k each. PowerVR driver is like 350k on froyo, and eclair and eclair compiled against froyo are 1.8/1.9MB. I did find a newer powervr driver from imagination last night but have to rework some code make it compile, and ti has the most recent driver from imagination but will not share unless you purchased a 1,600 evaluation board.
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SirGatez said:
ti has the most recent driver from imagination but will not share unless you purchased a 1,600 evaluation board.
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Click to collapse
I can send a lot curse words TI's way atm.
Btw, how much performance do these drivers improve ?
3d accel nor graphics work without them. Sammies binary works as shown in the alpha posted but ti isnt to blame, imagination (imageon) makes and releases/licenses the driver and its code.
Just read an article saying they may opensource it in 3rd quarter this year I dont see that hindering us much right now with froyo, we can always dissassemble and recompile the binaries if we are left no other options to ensure gingerbread compatibility. Nexus S binary modules should work for gb testers at the moment, not sure how different froyo and gb powervr sgx drivers are right now but their are seemingly major internal changes from eclair to froyo. Every google result says both use the same gpu.
But Samsung is to blame for the lack of opensource froyo s3c_bc and s3c_lcd modules. But they look portable to froyo at the moment, will delve deeper into rabbit hole soon...
Edit: I have not tried to boot without loading these modules but when I compile and use the eclair powervr driver for froyo it driver load loops then boot loops then shuts down. The phone may work in 2d without them but I am doubtful. The kernel does have enough internal code (s3c_fb, s3c_cfb, etc) to display the i9000 startup image but the rest of the drivers are supposed to load before the bootanimation plays.
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SirGatez said:
Just read an article saying they may opensource it in 3rd quarter this year I dont see that hindering us much right now with froyo, we can always dissassemble and recompile the binaries if we are left no other options to ensure gingerbread compatibility. Nexus S binary modules should work for gb testers at the moment, not sure how different froyo and gb powervr sgx drivers are right now but their are seemingly major internal changes from eclair to froyo. Every google result says both use the same gpu.
But Samsung is to blame for the lack of opensource froyo s3c_bc and s3c_lcd modules. But they look portable to froyo at the moment, will delve deeper into rabbit hole soon...
Edit: I have not tried to boot without loading these modules but when I compile and use the eclair powervr driver for froyo it driver load loops then boot loops then shuts down. The phone may work in 2d without them but I am doubtful. The kernel does have enough internal code (s3c_fb, s3c_cfb, etc) to display the i9000 startup image but the rest of the drivers are supposed to load before the bootanimation plays.
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Damn, that's neat info. Where does one go to learn all this neat stuff about kernel, decompiling binaries and then compiling them again for another OS ?
StDevious said:
Damn, that's neat info. Where does one go to learn all this neat stuff about kernel, decompiling binaries and then compiling them again for another OS ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kernel hacking is very similar to any other reverse engineering effort, an under standing of asm is needed, as well as the file layout of thr target binaries.
Although technically reverse engineering by way of of binary decompilation is copyright infringement and a breach of most software usage licenses, but so is sharing binaries from one platform to another dispite the purpose.
Either way that isn't something I will be working on just yet unless an opensource driver for this surfaces we will use sammies for now and concentrate on making what we have stable. Fixing the radio and testing the other hardware are priority since the current binary froyo graphics driver does work atm. We will get an opensource version working later, if not then we worry about the the black box problem.
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About 2 hours more research later I learned that a portion but not all of the PowerVR SGX/MDX drivers are open source, they are released like binary blobs with the open sourced portion of the driver enclosing the closed sourced blobs to function (much like how NVidia and ATI began their Linux Driver crusade), I will attempt to contact TI / Imagination for the open source portion of the drivers, they do not have them posted for public consumption but should have no problem providing access under the OSS/GPL. If anyone has these already they can send me a PM and it will save some time, likely the closest port that should work will likely be TI's OMAP34xx PowerVR SGX with modifications as it is already Linux compatible. There are about 3-4 versions of the driver, the external installer version does not match the internal library versions, v1/v2 is Pre-Samsung-Eclair/Samsung-Eclair, and I have downloaded v3 and attempting to get it to work with Froyo, I am not sure what version Froyo uses, v4 is avail for OMAP3xxx developers from TI linked to a development board that they sell. Not sure what version is available by request. I downloaded v3 but the problem I'm having with v3 is compiling has a data type conflict that I am attempting to resolve between the portions I pulled from v2 for Samsung compatibility.
Go SirGatez go
Good go, appreciate the effort for the greater good.
SirGatez said:
Kernel hacking is very similar to any other reverse engineering effort, an under standing of asm is needed, as well as the file layout of thr target binaries.
Although technically reverse engineering by way of of binary decompilation is copyright infringement and a breach of most software usage licenses, but so is sharing binaries from one platform to another dispite the purpose.
Either way that isn't something I will be working on just yet unless an opensource driver for this surfaces we will use sammies for now and concentrate on making what we have stable. Fixing the radio and testing the other hardware are priority since the current binary froyo graphics driver does work atm. We will get an opensource version working later, if not then we worry about the the black box problem.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is there like a link to guide or a book to learn ?
I know it's too early for feature requests... so I'm just going to leave this here... you know, for fun.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=709135
No pressure.
SirGatez said:
Although technically reverse engineering by way of of binary decompilation is copyright infringement and a breach of most software usage licenses, but so is sharing binaries from one platform to another dispite the purpose.
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Click to collapse
Nearly all of the innovators that make beautiful things happen with technology are in violation (or at least a gray area) of the law. It really is a shame.
I wonder how much bribe money it took to get the DMCA passed? I'm sorry, I meant "political funding".
Source is online now! Sorry for the delays, Enjoy!
http://www.github.com/sirgatez
I'm working on porting some features from Blazed into Froyo now, git will be updated once I verify everything works. To compile Froyo use the Fascinate_Blazed_defconfig. You will need need to use the stock modules pvrsrvkm.ko, s3c_lcd.ko, s3c_bc.ko for graphics to work. Use of hotspot_event_monitoring.ko, dhd.ko, dpram.ko, dpram_recovery.ko may also allow for operation radio and wifi although I have not tested this, so consider radio operations to still be broken, I am working on the issue.
I did manage to compile versions 2 (From Eclair, did not try Eclairs older EGL libraries with Froyo), 3 (Had android EGL libraries 1 subversion lower than stock Froyo) and 4 (no android egl libraries were included) of the PowerVR drivers and something is amiss and still results in a boot loop, something doesn't seem to be compatible, seems like I get missing library defines no matter how I try.
If someone has intimate knowledge about the PowerVR 3D and EGL on android and could PM me I would like to get some help on getting a fully working compile from source of the drivers that works. Any TI/OMAP3 experience with this driver should be applicable to this situation. I have not posted these drivers on git because there is a clickwrap license on the, you can get them from TI's website, some of them require a login to download, some of them are instant with no login.
I expect full source working drivers for all other devices except graphics within 7 to 14 days once the bugs and incompatible code is resolved, again the dhd wifi drivers are NOT compiling to the same size as the one provided by Samsung, so something seems fishy. If anyone from the internal Samsung Froyo dev team would like to help shed some light on why dhd.ko, pvrsrvkm.ko, s3c_lcd.ko, s3c_bc.ko all compile from the posted source to files 3-8 times the size of those included in Samsung's stock roms it would help progress greatly. Oh yes and I will not reveal any identifying information in exchange for your help unless you request it
Making progress with dpram/gpio control lines. Once I get this right the radio will be working like a charm. Dpram also controls operation of other major hardware such as camera, bluetooth, wifi, in addition to cellular. These devices all work independantly of each other but the dpram module handles the traffic and control i/o.
The galaxy phones while all sporting similar hardware have slightly different ways of controlling them.
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Samsung released the source for froyo for the epic today.
http://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-releases-source-epic-4g-eb13-froyo-update
This is most likely of limited usefulness but hopefully a sign we wont have to wait long for the fascinate source.
Well I have tried several times with different kernels from different people, and none of the kernels that allow for overclocking seem to run. I dont know if its an issue with the roms not being compatible with the kernel. I am also running the RED clockwork recovery. I would just like some help to possibly get a kernel that allows overclocking to actually work.
Well the overclocking kernels are all for eclair android. There are no overclocking kernels for froyo roms and eclair kernels will not work with froyo roms.
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tbh, overclock is overrated anyway....give me underclocked, optimized kernels, and im happy
I figured it had to do with the roms, are there any decent eclair roms available?
whd1736 said:
I figured it had to do with the roms, are there any decent eclair roms available?
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stick with froyo, eclair is old
Overclocking will give you big numbers you can show off to all your friends, but does very little in terms of improving real-world performance.
imnuts said:
Overclocking will give you big numbers you can show off to all your friends, but does very little in terms of improving real-world performance.
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While I largely agree, I will say it depends on your hardware. With this phone, overclocking will do little good, as the hardware has more than enough power for most anything already. On the Eris though, overclocking from the factory stock 528MHz to 710MHz made quite a significant and very noticeable boost in performance. That, however, was because the CPU was underpowered and struggled to do the most basic tasks, obviously any speed boost would be noticeable. That's not the case on the Fascinate.
Sent from XDA Premium on my Super Clean Fascinate
ok thanks for the info....came from the eris so I figured that overclocking would make a slight noticeable difference.