I can't turn on my phone ! - XPERIA X10 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Hi there.
Sorry about this thread if it has been disscused but I searched here a little and I didn't found something similar to my problem.
I bought my phone last summer in 2010 from Wien , Austria.
I decoded it here in Romania.
3 days ago I upgraded to 2.1...All good , but a few hours ago the phone was charging and someone called me , I answered talked for 10-15 sec then it turned off. I tried to take out battery , sim , memory card for 5-10 min but it didn't turned on , it was only vibrating.I tried to update again but it was only failing.I tried to take out battery etc etc...only vibrating.
Please help me ! Thanks.

Try flashing the stock 2.1 rom if it doesnt worl try the 2.2
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App

Thanks for this quick reply.There is one problem : ME .
I'm new to this x10 experience.
Don't have knowledge about cell phones their programs and stuff like that.
I searched a bit on google about flashing and really don't want to f**k this up.
Can you please give me a link or explain how I can do what you wrote above?

Try the power button.

So I downloaded the flash tool read all there but the problem is I can't turn on my phone to see the baseband...

When you try to turn it on does the led just flash red? Mine just did this and the problem is the battery was dead. For some reason it didn't charge while plugged into my laptop. I don't know why, but I had to charge it in my car. Not sure if it has something to do with my battery or from when I flashed/rooted to 2.1 a week ago. Been working fine until today.

The battery is full i just tried to charge it is GREEN and then it turns off just like when it's full.So what can i do about the baseband?

Morti mami lui de telefon !

alexspike said:
Morti mami lui de telefon !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nu fi nervos pe telefon !! Nu el este de vina in cele mai multe cazuri, ci utilizatorul !
Acum ca sa te ajut uite ce trebuie sa faci mai intai verifica daca iti intra in flashmode, daca da atunci =>next da se poate rezolva.
Lasa chestia aia cu flashtool-ul daca nu sti basebandul, poti sa sari peste ea folosind softul original de la SE, SEUS acesta recunoaste automat ce baseband ai si iti downloadeaza firmwareul corect. Insa trebuie sa ii dai repair sa iti instaleze de la 0 tot romul, insa vei pierde toate datele.
daca nu si nici nu porneste=> atunci e de rau si trebuie sa duci telefonul in service, si ori ai stricat bootloaderul sau sa dus ceva hardware, oricum la nici unu nu ai acces deocamdata.
Sorry for that how not understand what i wrote, the men is really pissed off, and try to explain how to solve a solution in the native language.

Mersi sa vad ce rezolv revin cu un PM sau reply.

Does that mean it is fixed?

I have the same problem. My phone just cant start. Only green led and vibro....and black screen.

PROBLEM SOLVED SEUS RULZ ! (seus = sony ericsson update service)
@zeera
Well i just didn't do nothing about flash or something like that i just waited and tried to open it. My battery went red , I charged him all good full battery i plugged usb cable to PC runned update service and finally THE UPDATE WAS A SUCCES !
for 3 days I have been in to hell with everyone because a fu**ing phone ( wich I love )
Thanks all who tried to help me !

Sorry was going to post that but forgot my bad for the delay ;(
Sent from my X10i using XDA Premium App

hey can you explain exactly how you did it step by step?
I have this problem too.

isiena said:
hey can you explain exactly how you did it step by step?
I have this problem too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the problem began when the phone was charging , someone called me , i answered , we talked for 10-15 seconds and then the phone turned off. I tried to turn it on but nothing. I didn't tried to flash or something like that instead i tried to install 2.1 again and again with update service from Sony Ericsson. I waited for a few days 2-3 days I guess and tried in these days to update him but was always failing.Yesterday my battery went red , I charged it and updated and it was a succes ! And then i was able to turn it on !
Hope it will be useful for you too.

Hi when the phone wasn't turning on did it connect to the computer at all? [Mine didn't]

Sony Ericsson Update Service
Hi,
Please have a look at the SEUS software for your phone.
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/support/softwaredownloads/detailed/updateservice?cc=gb&lc=en
Download this and use it to restore your phone to an original state if something went wrong during an update or it has crashed totally and the phone is unusable. It will work!
If you want to customize your phone and use Flashtool to load a custom rom or firmware onto your device, you will need to have it in a working state to begin with and know which basebad you are running.

how can i update some software from SUES...flash it or do anything....if the phone is not detecting on my computer?
my phone was only vibrating for a sec when i switch it on till past few hours...no red light or green light...
but from past few mins i see red light blinking 3 times when i try to switch it on...and no display...and if i connect a charger(which i did for several hours) and the phone was only blinking red all the time..but there is no charge in the phone...
now there is no vibration but the red light blinks infinitely as i charge my phone...but no display when i turn it on....
is this a known issue? how do i flash it or update the software using SEUS on my phone in this condition?? because the phone wont turn on or detect on my computer... http://media.xda-developers.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

nrmr82 said:
how can i update some software from SUES...flash it or do anything....if the phone is not detecting on my computer?
my phone was only vibrating for a sec when i switch it on till past few hours...no red light or green light...
but from past few mins i see red light blinking 3 times when i try to switch it on...and no display...and if i connect a charger(which i did for several hours) and the phone was only blinking red all the time..but there is no charge in the phone...
now there is no vibration but the red light blinks infinitely as i charge my phone...but no display when i turn it on....
is this a known issue? how do i flash it or update the software using SEUS on my phone in this condition?? because the phone wont turn on or detect on my computer... http://media.xda-developers.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My x10 has done this before, it does it when you drain you battery below a certain voltage, which is too low for the phone to begin charging it again. You could try putting your battery in a dock to charge it. All i did was cut the end off a usb cable, stripped the positive and negative wires and just held them against the batteries terminals for ten minutes white the other end of the cable was plugged into the computer. Put the battery back in my phone and it had 20% charge.

Related

x10 dosent power on

Hi, ok so about a month ago i let the phone discharge completly i was on wolf's rom,and when i got home i put it on charge let it like 10 - 15 minutes and then try to turn it on,but all i got was a vibration and a green light flashing once,and then got a new phone arc s and today i kinda miss my x10 xD so i took the battery out and give it 2..3 minutes to rest and then try again ....nothing(i let it another 1:30 minutes to charge ), afterthat i flashed 2.1 official with flashtool clean no mod's the flashtool didnt give me any error but when i try to start ..the phone did the same thing 1 vibrate and green light once blink and now when i put it on charge the phone has the green light on like 5 minute then it turns off,if i take the battery out and put it on charge the green light apears...i tried another battery and the phone has the same problem.. so i came here if anyone know what is wrong with him (i installed SEUS > press repair > said my phone has the latest software,and pc companion the same) (sorry for my english)
Later edit : i am thinking to try unlock bootloader if that dosent give me any what so ever blinking screen or logo or error ... imma going to buy a JTAG cable and try that /// what should i do?? becouse i just want to experiment on this phone cuz i have my arc s and i am good with him xD
Later later edit : ok so i found out the problem..that was i tried to flash 1.6 in the past and that f**ked my boot some how so today i went at a service who has Jtag box ..(is kinda expensive to buy one just for my phone ..no worth it) for x10 an the man fix my phone in like 10 minutes so everyone who has one of the one of the following problmes only jtag can fix it : 1 if u flashed a stock rom and u got only a green light blink and a virbate and then nothing happens 2 if u get a green light and the phone is stuck on virbate and nothing happens..and btw if u get three blink red lights..u need to charge the phone or the battery hope it helps somebody
because i am happy now with the x10 working like new xD (dunno what is the rulles here but u can delete my topic.thx) hi hi only me post here
Since you solved your problem you should update your post from 'x10 doesn't power on' to something like 'SOLVED: X10 doesn't power on '
I also had same no power green light, had to use older flashtool and flash stock generic 2.1. It took 2-3 times for flash to take
from XDA app on my X10S v8.3 on DooMKernel6 @ 1152Mhz
ToledoJab said:
Since you solved your problem you should update your post from 'x10 doesn't power on' to something like 'SOLVED: X10 doesn't power on '
I also had same no power green light, had to use older flashtool and flash stock generic 2.1. It took 2-3 times for flash to take
from XDA app on my X10S v8.3 on DooMKernel6 @ 1152Mhz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
am having the same problem can you plz plz plz help me thx
Maty360414 said:
am having the same problem can you plz plz plz help me thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A little info is needed. Have you tried the way described in this thread? How did this happen?
Sent from my X10S using XDA

[Q] Unresponsive Screen

Hello, so this problem really started randomly, doesn't matter what I do, lets say I type a message my Lumia's screen is completely not responding like its dead, the search, windows or back keys, don't work either, but I can lock the phone, when I lock it and unlock it, everything is fine for some time, then again, I did a soft reset to check if there were no apps running that might have been stuck, nothing worked, then I actually did a hard reset, which helped for like 10 minutes and then the problem was there again... I am using Windows Phone 7.8, I don't know if that could be the problem, because I've been using it for few days and the problem came up only today, so, if anyone could help I would be really thankful, because the problem is really annoying.
Archanor said:
Hello, so this problem really started randomly, doesn't matter what I do, lets say I type a message my Lumia's screen is completely not responding like its dead, the search, windows or back keys, don't work either, but I can lock the phone, when I lock it and unlock it, everything is fine for some time, then again, I did a soft reset to check if there were no apps running that might have been stuck, nothing worked, then I actually did a hard reset, which helped for like 10 minutes and then the problem was there again... I am using Windows Phone 7.8, I don't know if that could be the problem, because I've been using it for few days and the problem came up only today, so, if anyone could help I would be really thankful, because the problem is really annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
eu estava com o mesmo problema que você voltei para a 7.5, e esta tudo bem agora.
davifs said:
eu estava com o mesmo problema que você voltei para a 7.5, e esta tudo bem agora.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This forum have only one language. English. Please, respect this fact.
I know its weird, but everythings alright now, I just kept the phone off for the night and in the morning, ta-da!
The thread can be closed.

[Q] Problem on boot

Hi all,
Yesterday I completely drain my battery on my Desire X.
I've recharged it but ... the led still orange (no green as fully recharged) and the phone doesn't boot ... the screen still black ... no vital signs.
If I connect phone to battery recharge, the led become orange ... but the behavior still the same ... black screen and no vital signs.
I've tried with VOL DOWN+POWER but nothing happens ... no recovery screen, only a black screen.
Could anyone help me? Is my phone dead?
Thanks in advance
SR
sreggy said:
Hi all,
Yesterday I completely drain my battery on my Desire X.
I've recharged it but ... the led still orange (no green as fully recharged) and the phone doesn't boot ... the screen still black ... no vital signs.
If I connect phone to battery recharge, the led become orange ... but the behavior still the same ... black screen and no vital signs.
I've tried with VOL DOWN+POWER but nothing happens ... no recovery screen, only a black screen.
Could anyone help me? Is my phone dead?
Thanks in advance
SR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your bootloader is bricked, you can only go to a service.
xpirt
xpirt said:
If your bootloader is bricked, you can only go to a service.
xpirt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot xpirit.
I haven't installed any custom Rom, there is the original one. I've bought the phone in Germany because I was not able to find it in Italy so the Rom is branded T-Mobile.
Could my bootloader be bricked without any action on Rom or phone (it is not rooted)?
Thanks again
SR
sreggy said:
Thanks a lot xpirit.
I haven't installed any custom Rom, there is the original one. I've bought the phone in Germany because I was not able to find it in Italy so the Rom is branded T-Mobile.
Could my bootloader be bricked without any action on Rom or phone (it is not rooted)?
Thanks again
SR
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are on stock maybe is a problem hardware-side.
OT: lol possiamo parlare anche in italiano allora cmq anke io l'ho comprato in germania perchè non esiste neancora in italia penso..
xpirt
Try with another battery... Your battery can't start the phone, and it can't accept charge because you can't boot to android or recovery...
Flowed from my HTC branded muffin...
Stereo8 said:
Try with another battery... Your battery can't start the phone, and it can't accept charge because you can't boot to android or recovery...
Flowed from my HTC branded muffin...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I've tryed to boot without battery plugged to the recharge ... the orange led still on but nothing happen.
I've no another HTC battery ... could I try connecting + and - to another battery for example a Samsung one ... both are 3.6V and mAh are more then 1650 of the HTC battery?
Thanks again
SR

Sony e5823 boot loop

Hello.
I have some problem with Z5c.
After i Replaced fullset(lcd+digitizer) my phone stopped working. I can charge the battery but when i turn it on, it only tries to boot for a few secconds. After that the red led blinks 4 times and phone restarts again and again. LCD is new and working. I've tried to flash many rom's using many softwares(se-tool, flashtool, xperia companion) but without result. I'm not sure, if it's a software problem.
Does anyone of You solved such issue? Any suggestions, what to do, where to find sollution?
I'd be grateful for any help.
Best Regards.
Olo
olszewek said:
Hello.
I have some problem with Z5c.
After i Replaced fullset(lcd+digitizer) my phone stopped working. I can charge the battery but when i turn it on, it only tries to boot for a few secconds. After that the red led blinks 4 times and phone restarts again and again. LCD is new and working. I've tried to flash many rom's using many softwares(se-tool, flashtool, xperia companion) but without result. I'm not sure, if it's a software problem.
Does anyone of You solved such issue? Any suggestions, what to do, where to find sollution?
I'd be grateful for any help.
Best Regards.
Olo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bonjour avez vous trouvez une solution a* votre probleme, j'ai le meme cas sur 2 Z5 compact de clients, cela fais 3 ecrans que j'ai deja acheter et ne trouve pas de solutions
I this problem help me ?plase
[email protected]
olszewek said:
Hello.
I have some problem with Z5c.
After i Replaced fullset(lcd+digitizer) my phone stopped working. I can charge the battery but when i turn it on, it only tries to boot for a few secconds. After that the red led blinks 4 times and phone restarts again and again. LCD is new and working. I've tried to flash many rom's using many softwares(se-tool, flashtool, xperia companion) but without result. I'm not sure, if it's a software problem.
Does anyone of You solved such issue? Any suggestions, what to do, where to find sollution?
I'd be grateful for any help.
Best Regards.
Olo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello.Have you solved the problem? I have the same. You wrote that you have a new screen and it works .But how did you test it? I did the following thing: I disconnected the cable connecting the motherboard and display, reassembled the phone and turned it on. He has successfully booted up, I identified the sound from the speakers. Charging the phone went normally and the battery is fully charged soon. I think it's all about low-quality display in my case it is from China, will have to buy a new one. Maybe you have a different solution? Write some. Sincerely.

V60 Demo Unit Questions

Has anyone successfully flashed stock firmware to one? I just got a brand new one on ebay for $65 so if I can't do it it's not a huge deal but it sure would be nice to bypass the 50% battery software lock. I've seen a couple people say they did it successfully in youtube comments and stuff but I'm not sure if they actually did or not.
If you just want to bypass battery lock, try charging via factory reset menu or download mode
jjy_0503 said:
If you just want to bypass battery lock, try charging via factory reset menu or download mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Device should be here tomorrow. I will definitely give this a try. Makes sense that it would work.
jjy_0503 said:
If you just want to bypass battery lock, try charging via factory reset menu or download mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just charging while off allows it to go past 50%.
Edit: Before setting the phone up it would charge past 50% while powered off - after setup it will not go past 50. Will try charging in recovery mode and see what happens. I have a feeling if you flashed a retail ROM on the demo unit before actually powering it up and letting it go into the operating system for the first time it would probably work.
Edit 2: Charging in recovery mode works even post setup.
Cheesequake said:
Just charging while off allows it to go past 50%.
Edit: Before setting the phone up it would charge past 50% while powered off - after setup it will not go past 50. Will try charging in recovery mode and see what happens. I have a feeling if you flashed a retail ROM on the demo unit before actually powering it up and letting it go into the operating system for the first time it would probably work.
Edit 2: Charging in recovery mode works even post setup.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, curious how you got into recovery mode. I have demo unit with retail mode removed. I tried holding vol down and power button after turning off, and it doesn't work. Also tried pw down + accessory button + power and didn't work either
Thanks. PS. I wouldn't try flashing a retail firmware /rom because everything that I have read it results in a brick..which recovering from is still being figured out.
EDIT: I remembered I can ADB into recovery. Combo buttons do not seem to work for recovery mode.
1) But rebooting into recovery only shows DEAD ANDROID GUY WITH red "!". And this mode will just auto reboot after a few minutes.
2) Rebooting into FACTORY RESET mode (using button combos after completely turning off device) .......charging beyond 50% seems to work, but the phone screen remains on and fairly bright. I wonder if repeatedly leaving the device on for an hour or 2 every day will eventually give screen burn.
jjy_0503 said:
If you just want to bypass battery lock, try charging via factory reset menu or download mode
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, does either mode have the option of turning screen off and or monitoring battery charge?
I managed to get into factory reset mode (vol down + power, release and repress power) but it appears it sits with screen on always .
Also how do you get into recovery mode? Tried many ways, cannot seem to get into it.
Thanks...
EDIT...remembered I could ADB into recovery. Although recovery mode on my demo unit with retail mode removed does not seem to have proper recovery mode anymore. Only can get dead android guy with red "!" when going into that mode.
Can report going into factory reset mode does seem to work for charging beyond 50%
Hello, has anyone noticed that the demo unit has reduced the maximum frequency of all cores by about 1 Gh, maybe the same applies to the video core. Is it possible to fix this or not to bypass the firmware limitation? Thank you in advance
Hello guys, what's new about 50%?
I see that now we can unbrick and root the demo.
Does anyone win the challenge?
poog said:
Hi, does either mode have the option of turning screen off and or monitoring battery charge?
I managed to get into factory reset mode (vol down + power, release and repress power) but it appears it sits with screen on always .
Also how do you get into recovery mode? Tried many ways, cannot seem to get into it.
Thanks...
EDIT...remembered I could ADB into recovery. Although recovery mode on my demo unit with retail mode removed does not seem to have proper recovery mode anymore. Only can get dead android guy with red "!" when going into that mode.
Can report going into factory reset mode does seem to work for charging beyond 50%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe you can use EDL mode which is used for QFIL..
Entering method is same with other phones such as V40
sribnyy said:
Hello, has anyone noticed that the demo unit has reduced the maximum frequency of all cores by about 1 Gh, maybe the same applies to the video core. Is it possible to fix this or not to bypass the firmware limitation? Thank you in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can modify or remove the thermal engines
Cheesequake said:
Has anyone successfully flashed stock firmware to one? I just got a brand new one on ebay for $65 so if I can't do it it's not a huge deal but it sure would be nice to bypass the 50% battery software lock. I've seen a couple people say they did it successfully in youtube comments and stuff but I'm not sure if they actually did or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes there is only one option to flash cross lg v60
Cheesequake said:
Has anyone successfully flashed stock firmware to one? I just got a brand new one on ebay for $65 so if I can't do it it's not a huge deal but it sure would be nice to bypass the 50% battery software lock. I've seen a couple people say they did it successfully in youtube comments and stuff but I'm not
DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for any damages this may cause as I am merely translating the guide, I am not responsible for you bricking your device because of a missed step so read carefully,
Also, Please backup your data beforehand as this does wipe the phone.
Requirements
1-LGUP 1.16.0.3 .
2-LG Mobile Driver 4.4.2
3- LG FIRMWARE V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz
!!BE CAREFUL TO DO EXACTLY AS THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY OR YOU WILL BRICK THE PHONE!!!
1. Make a backup .
2.put youR lg v60 demo into Download Mode".
1. Open LGUP.
2. Pick V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz .
3. Select "PARTITION DL".
4. Press Start. And a pop-up window will appear. In this window you can select which partitions to be flashed
5. uncheck these partitions: XBL_A , XBL_B,XBL_CONFIG_A,XBL_CONFIGE_B ,SID_A and SID_B.
after completing the process it will boot up in some minutes .
sure if they actually did or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for any damages this may cause as I am merely translating the guide, I am not responsible for you bricking your device because of a missed step so read carefully,
Also, Please backup your data beforehand as this does wipe the phone.
Requirements
1-LGUP 1.16.0.3 .
2-LG Mobile Driver 4.4.2
3- LG FIRMWARE V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz
!!BE CAREFUL TO DO EXACTLY AS THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY OR YOU WILL BRICK THE PHONE!!!
1. Make a backup .
2.put youR lg v60 demo into Download Mode".
1. Open LGUP.
2. Pick V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz .
3. Select "PARTITION DL".
4. Press Start. And a pop-up window will appear. In this window you can select which partitions to be flashed
5. uncheck these partitions: XBL_A , XBL_B,XBL_CONFIG_A,XBL_CONFIGE_B ,SID_A and SID_B.
after completing the process it will boot up in some minutes .
Bahmale said:
DISCLAIMER: I am not responsible for any damages this may cause as I am merely translating the guide, I am not responsible for you bricking your device because of a missed step so read carefully,
Also, Please backup your data beforehand as this does wipe the phone.
Requirements
1-LGUP 1.16.0.3 .
2-LG Mobile Driver 4.4.2
3- LG FIRMWARE V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz
!!BE CAREFUL TO DO EXACTLY AS THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY OR YOU WILL BRICK THE PHONE!!!
1. Make a backup .
2.put youR lg v60 demo into Download Mode".
1. Open LGUP.
2. Pick V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz .
3. Select "PARTITION DL".
4. Press Start. And a pop-up window will appear. In this window you can select which partitions to be flashed
5. uncheck these partitions: XBL_A , XBL_B,XBL_CONFIG_A,XBL_CONFIGE_B ,SID_A and SID_B.
after completing the process it will boot up in some minutes .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you already tried on V60 demo and have some proof?
dEFLASH said:
Did you already tried on V60 demo and have some proof?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes work fine but no gsm network in lg v60 demo and battery full charge and wifi work fine
Bahmale said:
Yes work fine but no gsm network in lg v60 demo and battery full charge and wifi work fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
firmware 20f also works?
is the one seen in the captures
Raify4 said:
firmware 20f also works?
is the one seen in the captures
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only you firmware V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz and after install it will show you as 20f
Bahmale said:
Yes work fine but no gsm network in lg v60 demo and battery full charge and wifi work fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No gsm module in demo it's ok
Thanks for info, will try.
probado con el lgup de este hilo
funciona
THANS
Bahmale said:
DESCARGO DE RESPONSABILIDAD: No soy responsable de ningún daño que esto pueda causar, ya que simplemente estoy traduciendo la guía, no soy responsable de que bloquees tu dispositivo debido a un paso perdido, así que lee con atención.
Además, haga una copia de seguridad de sus datos de antemano, ya que esto borra el teléfono.
Requisitos
1-LGUP 1.16.0.3.
2-Controlador móvil LG 4.4.2
3- LG FIRMWARE V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz
¡¡¡TENGA CUIDADO DE HACER EXACTAMENTE LO QUE DICEN LAS INSTRUCCIONES O LADRILLARÁ EL TELÉFONO !!!
1. Haga una copia de seguridad.
2. Ponga su demo de LG V60 en modo de descarga ".
1. Abra LGUP.
2. Elija V600EA20c_00_0526.kdz.
3. Seleccione "PARTICIÓN DL".
4. Presione Iniciar. Y aparecerá una ventana emergente. En esta ventana puede seleccionar qué particiones se actualizarán
5. desmarque estas particiones: XBL_A, XBL_B, XBL_CONFIG_A, XBL_CONFIGE_B, SID_A y SID_B.
después de completar el proceso, se iniciará en unos minutos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
!
is this

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