How come only 2.49GB is left if this thing has 8GB ? - Thunderbolt Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

Am I missing something here?

I believe that the Thunderbolt only actually has 4 GB. The 8 was falsely spread information. And then some of that is taken up by the stock data to run the Thunderbolt.

Best discussion on this topic i have read.
Code:
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/107/t/10194.aspx

markkal123 said:
Best discussion on this topic i have read.
Code:
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/107/t/10194.aspx
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Thank you for posting that link! Answered my question about that.

Yes, thanks for the link--was curious myself.

markkal123 said:
Best discussion on this topic i have read.
Code:
http://community.htc.com/na/htc-forums/android/f/107/t/10194.aspx
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Click to collapse
haha, I'm not sure I would call that "best discussion" but the answer is buried in that painful *****ing:
Current word in the dev circles is that the device does in fact have 8GB of internal eMMC, but has been partitioned to use a faster/more reliable configuration, called SLC, which results in a practical capacity/density of 4GB of user space, with about 1.5 GB of bloatware installed.
More information on understanding eMMC accessible storage: See here - http://tjworld.net/wiki/Android/HTC/EMMC/UnderstandingUserCapacity/
More information on previous uses of SLC in HTC devices: http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/index.php?title=HTC_Vision#The_Missing_2GB
Is this confusing for an average consumer? Yes.
Is this worth complaining about? Sure, but everyone with this phone still has at least 1 week to decide they don't want it so I don't think anyone is 'owed' anything. At most you might be able to get out of the $35 activation fee, if you were charged one (and most of us with a business discount likely weren't).
Did HTC and/or Verizon lie about specs? Not if the above is true. (Think of a PC manufacturer selling a business class system with 2x640GB HDDs configured in RAID 1. Does it say 2x640GB, yes, is that accurate, yes, is there 1280GB of user accessible storage, no, since RAID 1 mirrors all data 2x for increased reliability.)
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Ultimately, the RAID 1 array analogy works perfectly here. If somebody sells you a RAID array with 2x640GB drives, how much usable storage will you have? Well, the answer is "It depends on how the RAID array is configured." This is the same thing with eMMC. How much storage will you have available? It depends on how it's configured. Just so happens that we get the "RAID1" configuration of eMMC for speed and reliability. They have to configure the eMMC somehow, so how should they do it? The unfortunate thing about eMMC is that once it's configured, it's not reversable (like a RAID array might be).
This is the nature of eMMC. If you buy a product with eMMC, then to determine how much storage you have available, you should ask, "How is it configured?" just like you would if you bought a RAIDed storage unit. Otherwise, you are buying a product you don't understand and you very well may be surprised by what you get.

Quickly sucked up

Related

Transcend 8GB SDHC MicroSD: Thoughts? Experiences?

Has anyone had any experience with this tech? I searched and see a lot of posts about it's application in Windows Mobile (eww, that left a vomit taste in my mouth, errr fingers...) but not so much for Linux/Android based stuff.
Weigh in, will ya?
Ninjineer said:
Has anyone had any experience with this tech? I searched and see a lot of posts about it's application in Windows Mobile (eww, that left a vomit taste in my mouth, errr fingers...) but not so much for Linux/Android based stuff.
Weigh in, will ya?
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Um, if you look there are many posts with people using a 16gb MicroSDHC card. This will work fine for you, just make sure it is class 6 or higher. I have a class 2 and it works fine, but I'm sure there is a slowdown for me.
No, I am specifically asking about this particular brand of 8GB Class 6. I have seen some brands of media not work particularly well for this sort of thing.
I am fully aware that there are functional 16GB Class 6 cards out there that work, and threads talking about them. That is NOT what this thread was about. If English isn't your primary language, my bad, otherwise, read a post before you tell someone to go looking for the tons of threads that have nothing to do with the question.
I understand what you're asking - and no, I have no personal experience with it and cannot inform you if it's bad or good.
However, I use a TopRam 8gb Class 6 and it was only about 20 dollars (same prices) on eBay, free shipping, and received it in the mail in about 3 days. It works really well, and I have never had any problems with it.
Also, you said you seen your card on all Windows Mobile forums. I don't see how this really matters, but you wanted to know about Linux/Android and my TopRam does just fine with both.
Sorry I couldn't help you on the original question. =[
I use Transcend.
Great company. Just buy it from Newegg, if anything goes wrong, their quick to make you happy.
I had one go bad... not sure what it was, could've been my fault... either case, called them up and they shipped out another one. Didn't even want the old one back.
BTW, that was 1 month into having it... I'm on a year with this one running swap, an EXT3 and FAT32
I too use the 8g class 6 card, only had it for a few months, but so far its good. Unsure on the speed of the class 6, as its all I've used. But its a good company, with a good reasonably priced product. I'll vouch for them.
Ninjineer said:
No, I am specifically asking about this particular brand of 8GB Class 6. I have seen some brands of media not work particularly well for this sort of thing.
I am fully aware that there are functional 16GB Class 6 cards out there that work, and threads talking about them. That is NOT what this thread was about. If English isn't your primary language, my bad, otherwise, read a post before you tell someone to go looking for the tons of threads that have nothing to do with the question.
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Dear illiterate jack,
Firstly, where, in your original post and thread title, do you ask specifically about class 6 cards? There's not one mention of them. You listed a brand, size, type, etc but nothing about class 6 cards. So, please forgive tekkitan if he/she couldn't read your mind and know exactly what you meant.
Secondly, does your need for attention really outweigh logic? There's hundreds of reviews for this exact microSD card on Amazon and other websites, and quite a bit specifically name Android.
Thirdly, before you state "i just wanted a discussion, y0", please remember this: a majority of the time (especially now that xda has become tech support), someone may have had a similar question or problem and may have asked it. If you had searched for "class 6, 8gb" in this very area of the forum you'd have received sixteen other threads discussing this very topic primarily on Android (two threads specifically discussing Transcend 8gb class6 microSD cards, and one post where a user directly states that "I'm currently using Transcend 8GB Class 6, no problems so far".
So, next time, instead of insulting other people because they did not know exactly what you were asking, look back at your original post and ask yourself, "Have I made clear exactly what I'm asking?", "Could someone else have asked this before me?" and finally, "Will my replies make me sound like a prick?".
Now, to answer your question: I have used this specific card (great deal on Amazon, BTW) on the Dream, Passion, and Xperia X10 (stock as well as rooted). Compared to my Sandisk Class2, the difference is dramatic. There were no technical issues in my experience.
Yours truly,
sblmnl
Ninjineer said:
No, I am specifically asking about this particular brand of 8GB Class 6. I have seen some brands of media not work particularly well for this sort of thing.
I am fully aware that there are functional 16GB Class 6 cards out there that work, and threads talking about them. That is NOT what this thread was about. If English isn't your primary language, my bad, otherwise, read a post before you tell someone to go looking for the tons of threads that have nothing to do with the question.
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Please be respectful to other members. tekkitan, or any one of us, after reading your first post, would have had no idea you wanted opinions on a class6 card. I will keep an eye on this thread.
sblmnl, please let us handle this type of situation in the future

[INFO] eMMC and Data Reliance

First off, I want to apologize if this information is either or both regurgitated and irrelevant.
I was looking for information on eMMC, and there really isn't much, and I found an old article that describes how data reliance works with eMMC. At least a cursory look.
One of the features of Reliance (and Reliance Nitro) file system is that it never overwrites live data. It will always use free space on disk or in case there is no space, it will give “disk full” error back to the application. Reliance also has a special transaction mode called “Application-controlled”. In this case, Reliance only conducts a transaction point when asked by the application.
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Full article here. Information about integration with embedded linux, here.
What struck me was the "Application-controlled" part. It would explain the technology that is undoing changes to /system when the system kills the temp root. I wonder if its possible for temp root to trigger the "commit" function of reliance once some small changes have been made...
Hope this is of some use.
CyWhitfield said:
First off, I want to apologize if this information is either or both regurgitated and irrelevant.
I was looking for information on eMMC, and there really isn't much, and I found an old article that describes how data reliance works with eMMC. At least a cursory look.
Full article here. Information about integration with embedded linux, here.
What struck me was the "Application-controlled" part. It would explain the technology that is undoing changes to /system when the system kills the temp root. I wonder if its possible for temp root to trigger the "commit" function of reliance once some small changes have been made...
Hope this is of some use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just an FYI, system is an EXT4 FS. This would require not only a custom kernel, but a lot of one offs in the way it's dealing with data. From what I've seen, this isn't what they are using.
But that's a very good find, I am looking into some of the information. Never heard of this before.
Thanks for the info. I would love to find out more about how this memory technology works. More articles are welcome!
Isn't that basically just wear leveling?
Is your name Ben? Or are you perhaps searching on this because of a post that Ben made on HTC? His claim was that even with an unlocked bootloader, that the eMMC could still be locked and prevent us from getting root. This seems far fetched to me.
edufur said:
Is your name Ben? Or are you perhaps searching on this because of a post that Ben made on HTC? His claim was that even with an unlocked bootloader, that the eMMC could still be locked and prevent us from getting root. This seems far fetched to me.
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In all reality, I'm thinking this is the eventuality. Sprint knows that with root access we can circumvent the WiFi tether that they want to charge you for. They would never be OK with that.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Just an FYI, system is an EXT4 FS. This would require not only a custom kernel, but a lot of one offs in the way it's dealing with data. From what I've seen, this isn't what they are using.
But that's a very good find, I am looking into some of the information. Never heard of this before.
Click to expand...
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Given that you have taken a much closer look at the inner workings than I have, I will defer to your observation with a caveat
According to wiki eMMC supports something called Reliable Write. This suggests that the reversion capability is a part of the eMMC standard. Reliance sounds more and more like a commercial implementation of this function decoupled from a specific media type. After looking it over again, nowhere in the article about Reliance is eMMC mentioned.
Isn't that basically just wear leveling?
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Wear leveling is a byproduct of what reliable write is doing. The difference is the ability to defer commitment of file system changes, so that a failed system update wont brick the device.
I do not know if changes made to the device are immediate and revertable (i.e., if eMMC is not told to commit a write, the changes just "go away" when its remounted). Nor do I know if reversions can be made on the fly, as we are experiencing when temp root gets deactivation.
There really isn't much information out there about this that is easy to find.
Is your name Ben? Or are you perhaps searching on this because of a post that Ben made on HTC? His claim was that even with an unlocked bootloader, that the eMMC could still be locked and prevent us from getting root. This seems far fetched to me.
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Click to collapse
Neither. eMMC isn't "locked" per se. HTC is using some mechanism that will revert the contents of /system to a prior state when some unknown condition is met. I do not mean to suggest that this is being done through "reliable write" or "Reliance", since it has already been pointed out by someone much more knowledgable on the subject than I that a standard EXT4 file system is being used. I honestly have no idea. I found this information somewhat by accident, and thought that if it could prove useful I should share it here.
Something is dynamically protecting the contents of /system. Once the phone is rooted, I have no doubt that this "something" will be rendered quite impotent. If it were not possible to do so in the first place, OTAs wouldn't work
Sprint knows that with root access we can circumvent the WiFi tether that they want to charge you for. They would never be OK with that.
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The first part of your statement is true, Sprint knows full well that we can circumvent their attempts to charge us for WiFi tethering with root access. They have known this for years. They also know that in reality there is no way they can completely prevent someone from tethering their phone in one way or another. Even without root access. Ref: PDANet.
In my opinion, this protection of the eMMC contents was designed to reduce support costs from failed OTA updates bricking phones, and perhaps as protection against malware that can attain root, not unlike what Temp Root does.
I am not as paranoid as some here and refuse to accept that this was done specifically to thwart efforts to root the phone. The vast (and i mean VAST) majority of people who buy this phone will never even consider rooting the devices. This same majority has a subset of people that are easily stupid enough to screw up an OTA update or download and install malware.
I will take it a step further and opine that the only reason HTC is unlocking the bootloader is because we are such a minority AND that by tinkering with an unlocked device, we are actually helping HTC improve their product. They would rather have a more appealing facebook page than worry about losing a minuscule fraction of wifi tethering income.m Moreover, take a good look at where Sprint stands in the market, and what they have done recently to improve their position. They are doing a lot of really cool things, and have taken impressive steps to improve customer service and corporate image. That they would allow this bashing of HTC to continue unabated over a handful of tethering dollars is unlikely.
I appreciate your canter, very informative. A thanks will come your way.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Does pdanet allow wireless tether? I didn't think it did.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
Nutzy said:
Does pdanet allow wireless tether? I didn't think it did.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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It doesn't act as a hotspot, no.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Nutzy said:
I appreciate your canter, very informative. A thanks will come your way.
Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Much appreciated!
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
So, I would be interested in hearing more thoughts on this. Is the eMMC independent of the OS? In other words, would a custom ROM have to obey and work with the eMMC? Or could a custom ROM be made to either disable the eMMC or make it do what we want?
edufur said:
So, I would be interested in hearing more thoughts on this. Is the eMMC independent of the OS? In other words, would a custom ROM have to obey and work with the eMMC? Or could a custom ROM be made to either disable the eMMC or make it do what we want?
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I think you're misunderstanding this. The eMMC is the memory inside the device that everything is stored on. It replaced the old NAND chips in older devices.
The OS is stored & runs off of eMMC memory, it's not independent. If you were to 'turn off' the eMMC the device would do nothing. A lot of the security features available on the chip itself probably aren't in use. HTC has been using their own form of write protection since early last year, even on the NAND based Evo 4G. I'd stake a bet they're using the same system here, and we just need to find a way to flash the ENG bootloader like we did last year to get around it.
I agree with you. reliance is setup to ward against "unauthorized" changes to the /system partitions. i believe the developer community takes way too deep a look at each action made by a corporation (htc) and view them as "big brother", when infact most changes are actually approved, reviewed, and committed by someone in accounting with no technical skills whatsoever. these people are forced to look at the bigger scheme of things and make a decision about it (after working for sprint for almost 2 years now...i can tell you how many decisions are literally made by someone who has no idea what the heck he is making decisions on).
instead of looking at them "trying to stop the development community from unlocking wireless tether" look at them as a CEO (who most of the time has no technical knowledge) and a PR rep (who really only cares about how their company is viewed) and using this kind of encryption is only there to "safeguard" their devices against attacks.
one would think the secret to perm rooting the device is triggering the reliance write function so it commits the changes instead of reloading them. if /system doesnt get changed unless theres an OTA of some sorts....theres more than likely a hash table that reliance would check against to verify...so an OTA would need to write to that table first, then make the changes....
more than likely some other noob has already said something along those lines and been flamed for it as well...just throwing it out there....
newkidd said:
.........
one would think the secret to perm rooting the device is triggering the reliance write function so it commits the changes instead of reloading them. if /system doesnt get changed unless theres an OTA of some sorts....theres more than likely a hash table that reliance would check against to verify...so an OTA would need to write to that table first, then make the changes....
........
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that stuck out in bold to me..... hmmmmmm
I probably was overlooking what eMMC was, however based on the links the user gave, I later learned a little more about its potential. It would appear that HTC is doing something along the lines of the operations expressed in the link. And if they are not fully replicating efforts, it would be a shame. I like the concept of wear leveling and efficient read/writes. It would be my hope that we could integrate all those functions within a custom rom.
I found a page on the Micron site on eMMC. In the tech notes section there are informational downloads for just one chip. Specifically, the Qualcomm QSC6695
You have to register to download them. A process I have already started. Their site claims it takes a half hour to register a new account.
Once I have the PDFs, I will attach them to the OP.
I don't know if this is the chip the evo 3d is using, but if it is these may prove beneficial to have.
EDIT: Nevermind. i'd have to sign an NDA first.
EDIT: Although, this looks interesting.
Geniusdog254 said:
A lot of the security features available on the chip itself probably aren't in use. HTC has been using their own form of write protection since early last year, even on the NAND based Evo 4G. I'd stake a bet they're using the same system here, and we just need to find a way to flash the ENG bootloader like we did last year to get around it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps, but a hint at the design really tells me that it would only make sense to offload this protection to the eMMC. Posted a link just a minute ago with the eMMC "enablement" model in PDF form. Interesting read...
CyWhitfield said:
I found a page on the Micron site on eMMC. In the tech notes section there are informational downloads for just one chip. Specifically, the Qualcomm QSC6695
You have to register to download them. A process I have already started. Their site claims it takes a half hour to register a new account.
Once I have the PDFs, I will attach them to the OP.
I don't know if this is the chip the evo 3d is using, but if it is these may prove beneficial to have.
EDIT: Nevermind. i'd have to sign an NDA first.
EDIT: Although, this looks interesting.
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Click to collapse
VERY interesting link & read for sure
CyWhitfield said:
The first part of your statement is true, Sprint knows full well that we can circumvent their attempts to charge us for WiFi tethering with root access. They have known this for years. They also know that in reality there is no way they can completely prevent someone from tethering their phone in one way or another. Even without root access. Ref: PDANet.
In my opinion, this protection of the eMMC contents was designed to reduce support costs from failed OTA updates bricking phones, and perhaps as protection against malware that can attain root, not unlike what Temp Root does.
I am not as paranoid as some here and refuse to accept that this was done specifically to thwart efforts to root the phone. The vast (and i mean VAST) majority of people who buy this phone will never even consider rooting the devices. This same majority has a subset of people that are easily stupid enough to screw up an OTA update or download and install malware.
I will take it a step further and opine that the only reason HTC is unlocking the bootloader is because we are such a minority AND that by tinkering with an unlocked device, we are actually helping HTC improve their product. They would rather have a more appealing facebook page than worry about losing a minuscule fraction of wifi tethering income.m Moreover, take a good look at where Sprint stands in the market, and what they have done recently to improve their position. They are doing a lot of really cool things, and have taken impressive steps to improve customer service and corporate image. That they would allow this bashing of HTC to continue unabated over a handful of tethering dollars is unlikely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with all of that. Other carriers have taken many steps to try to prevent wireless tethering. They've asked google to filter certain apps from the market from their customers, they've sent out letters to their customers who they suspect of tethering, they've used ECM's to try to stop it.
But Sprint...they've been remarkably silent on that front. Hell they don't even seem to plan on putting any usage caps in place. In my opinion, I suspect that Sprint wants to be different from the other carriers. They can't outright allow tethering because people would go nuts with it and it would saturate their network. Instead they have this approach of telling you that you can't do it without paying extra, but they look the other way when you do.
I don't know if I fully agree on why HTC locks the phone so tight though. I mean they really went out of their way to make sure nobody touches it. There could have been far more simple countermeasures in place to prevent malware yet still be open to somebody who has physical access to the phone.
It can't be that Sprint insisted on it being that way, otherwise Sprint would have insisted that the Nexus S be fully locked, so I don't believe that this is a carrier issue at all, at least not as far as the Evo 3D is concerned.
One of my suspicions is that HTC may make a profit off of having certain apps installed, much in the way that PC OEM's get paid to preload different apps (e.g. norton.) It could be that they want to make sure that you can't remove them. However that profit they make off of these apps may be significantly offset by having a really negative facebook page, hence the decision to unlock.
Hard to say really.

[Q] Upgrading primary SD card

I've been reading about upgrading the 2gb SD card that comes installed in the Streak. Apparently there are two potential benefits of this.
1) A larger card of which the extra space can be used as storage for media, etc. The problem I have with this is that it appears to involve some serious jumping through of hoops to make it work and it doesn't seem to always work. In other words, it is very easy to screw up.
2) Faster card to improve performance.
Has anyone tried this and have any feedback on whether it has had any effect on overall smoothness or stability?
I'm going to be replacing my screen soon so while I have the Streak open it would be a good time to replace it if there is anything to gain. From what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem worth the trouble, but if anyone has evidence to the contrary, please speak up.
mid_life_crisis said:
I've been reading about upgrading the 2gb SD card that comes installed in the Streak. Apparently there are two potential benefits of this.
1) A larger card of which the extra space can be used as storage for media, etc. The problem I have with this is that it appears to involve some serious jumping through of hoops to make it work and it doesn't seem to always work. In other words, it is very easy to screw up.
2) Faster card to improve performance.
Has anyone tried this and have any feedback on whether it has had any effect on overall smoothness or stability?
I'm going to be replacing my screen soon so while I have the Streak open it would be a good time to replace it if there is anything to gain. From what I have seen so far, it doesn't seem worth the trouble, but if anyone has evidence to the contrary, please speak up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have posted about internal card replacement, external card replacement, screen replacement here at xda and at 2 other sites. A forum search would have found it here and a Google search would have found it elsewhere. I don't have the time to keep re-posting my posts.
Sorry
kraz
krazman325 said:
I have posted about internal card replacement, external card replacement, screen replacement here at xda and at 2 other sites. A forum search would have found it here and a Google search would have found it elsewhere. I don't have the time to keep re-posting my posts.
Sorry
kraz
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When you create the title for a new thread it does an auto search. I think the title of this thread is a pretty reasonable search topic. The auto-search gave me nothing useful. Yes, I did bother to look at what it brought up. One title looked promising. I read it. It didn't help.
Besides, if you read the post, I obviously have read threads on the topic. Did you think I just created my opinion from whole cloth?
I'm looking for feedback from anyone who has good reason to think it is worth doing, because at this point I don't believe it is, but since the phone will be opened up soon, if that opinion is mistaken I would like to know about it so I won't miss out on a worthwhile hardware mod.
IF you had done a search for INTERNAL sd card you would have gotten all the answers you need.
So while I am here I will mention that in MY opinion it was well worth it, although I took the simple route and just cut a small bit of plastic that retains my internal card to replace it with the 4GB class 10.
Access to and from the card is greatly improved. What is in your Streak is a class 2 card which will read at about 8-10 MB/s and write at about 4 MB/s, on good days. Real world, knock a couple MB/s off each.
The Class 10 4GB, read speed 16-20MB/s consistent and write between 9-11MB/s, so do the math.
True, under normal conditions it may not seem as much, but I work with a lot of photos and documents out on the road with my phone. The time it took to replace the card has been saved countless times, and for me time is money.

Reliable Write: The reason /system reverts back to stock

This is a quote from the Sprint forums. I happened to subscribe to the thread and got this through e-mail:
I have seen first hand the current level of protection HTC has built into the device, and it is impressive. Should some rogue software use an exploit to obtain root, and make changes to the /system partition, the system detects this, revokes the root priveledge from the process that obtained it, then reverses all changes to /system. The technology behind part of this is a feature of eMMC called reliable write. A write-up on a commercial adaptation of this is http://blog.datalight.com/doing-in-place-os-updates-for-embedded-devices here. This sounds ideal for ensuring that a failed OTA update won't break the phone, and protection against malware and the like, but it also makes it impossible to flash roms or make other customisations to the core of the phone.
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-Posted by some guy named MS072467
Here is the link to the original discussion on Sprint.com:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/313016#313016
Wow is all i can say thatrs really involved thanks a lot HTC (eyes roll)
Sucks for root but makes the phone much safer from malware.
Seriously, it's a piece of brilliance as far as system security goes, and I hope we can continue to use it to our advantage once we've cracked the phone open, as it's a great idea. The problem is not that the system reverts writes, it's that we can't tell it what writes are good. We're locked out of our own devices, and the built-in security measures are being used against the owners. That's not good.
canteenboy said:
Sucks for root but makes the phone much safer from malware.
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Malware is really that big of a problem to warrant a complete lock-down of the phone? Been using Android for over a year, downloading any app I felt like, and never once had a "virus" take over my phone.
Mike
mikeyxda said:
Malware is really that big of a problem to warrant a complete lock-down of the phone? Been using Android for over a year, downloading any app I felt like, and never once had a "virus" take over my phone.
Mike
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Click to collapse
Does that mean we ignore system security? Malware might not have been a serious problem before, but you throw something like this in, and it all but guarantees that it will continue to not be a problem for some time to come.
Again, the problem here is not that the phone is locked down, the problem is that the owners didn't get the key when they bought the property.
I honestly dont see this as a big saving grace. After all, most malware is likely to come in the form of rogue legit looking apps like a keyboard that could log our passwords without needing root.
IMO they weren't thinking of malware when they implemented this, they were thinking of xda!
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
naw they were more thinking about how much $$$ they would save from being able to effectively push a software update correctly the first time...
if they were really that worried about keeping "xda" out of the phone they wouldnt be unlocking bootloaders. i cant even begin to tell you how much easier my job would be if i didnt have to replace one more device because they did an update and now their phone doesnt work.
sn0b0ard said:
This is a quote from the Sprint forums. I happened to subscribe to the thread and got this through e-mail:
-Posted by some guy named MS072467
Here is the link to the original discussion on Sprint.com:
http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/313016#313016
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Click to collapse
That would be me I started a similar thread on the subject here. It was moved to General from Dev some time ago.
Just to clarify, Reliable Write being the culprit was just an assumption, based on what we all see happening when /system reverts, and that it would be the most logical mechanism for performing the reversions, given that it is a feature of eMMC to begin with.
There was a dev who replied to the original thread that disagreed, and thought it may be a proprietary emulation of similar technology.
I contacted Micron to get permission to view the documentation of the technology but never received a reply.
sn0board - Many thanks for the helpful info.
The Shift uses eMMC and we had perm root after a fairly short time - lotta work (tip of the topper for the many who worked that) - but we got it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=932153
I wonder if they'd implemented that feature for the Shift - visionary or z4root provide workable temp root without the difficulties here.
CyWhitfield said:
That would be me I started a similar thread on the subject here. It was moved to General from Dev some time ago.
Just to clarify, Reliable Write being the culprit was just an assumption, based on what we all see happening when /system reverts, and that it would be the most logical mechanism for performing the reversions, given that it is a feature of eMMC to begin with.
There was a dev who replied to the original thread that disagreed, and thought it may be a proprietary emulation of similar technology.
I contacted Micron to get permission to view the documentation of the technology but never received a reply.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh makes sense now. The more information we can get on the protection mechanisms behind eMMC and the Evo 3D, the better.
It's odd that they keep moving these posts that talk about the protection of the eMMC. I mean, if we can't disable this write protection, then how are we going to develop ROMs for it in the first place?
sn0b0ard said:
Ahh makes sense now. The more information we can get on the protection mechanisms behind eMMC and the Evo 3D, the better.
It's odd that they keep moving these posts that talk about the protection of the eMMC. I mean, if we can't disable this write protection, then how are we going to develop ROMs for it in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Given that arguably the largest obstacle to loading the ENG bootloader is this eMMC protection, I don't understand how its considered irrelevant to development either.
In a way, I hope it is irrelevant. I hope its easier to break this thing than what I have read in the articles I posted would suggest.
eMMC JEDEC standard
I'm not sure who makes the eMMC chips in our phones even though I heard someone say Micron, but I would assume the support or use JEDEC standards which attempts to standardize environment, data handling and such. I am not sure what the current standard is even though I think it is 4.41. Here is an interesting pdf on mapped commands and bit setting used to handle the writing of data to eMMC. Standard in this PDF is 4.4.
http://rere.qmqm.pl/~mirq/JESD84-A44.pdf
Jason0071 said:
I'm not sure who makes the eMMC chips in our phones even though I heard someone say Micron, but I would assume the support or use JEDEC standards which attempts to standardize environment, data handling and such. I am not sure what the current standard is even though I think it is 4.41. Here is an interesting pdf on mapped commands and bit setting used to handle the writing of data to eMMC. Standard in this PDF is 4.4.
http://rere.qmqm.pl/~mirq/JESD84-A44.pdf
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting find

Will Verizon "ever" carry a 32GB S4 model? Update: Yes, finally.

The only near official info from Verizon so far appears to be to CNET, which basically said, "We (VZW) have no current information on a 32GB model". That of course is not a confirmation that they will or will not, but considering AT&T has a 32GB and even tweeted the week of their launch they would- Seems anecdotally bad for a VZW 32GB.
Seems if we do not keep this issue "alive" in some manner and VZW has no current plans, they probably never will.
Get an SD card. That's what they're for.
Sent from my Droid DNA
Based on the device you have only has 11gb out of box and no sd, seems you might not use a bunch of apps. Especially not the newer 3d games that take 2gb of storage.
Apps can not go on the sd card, so not an applicable option for some people. What MOS are you? I was an 0331.
I was tempted to wait for the 32 but was scared that by the time it got released (if ever) Verizon would have patched the boot loader exploit. Not worth the gamble for me.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Hey guys, sign the petition I have in my signature
rushless said:
Based on the device you have only has 11gb out of box and no sd, seems you might not use a bunch of apps. Especially not the newer 3d games that take 2gb of storage.
Apps can not go on the sd card, so not an applicable option for some people. What MOS are you? I was an 0331.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can install apps to the SD card, and most games allow you to save all of that extra data to the SD.
I'm a 7599 right now.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
i think not
TheBiles said:
You can install apps to the SD card, and most games allow you to save all of that extra data to the SD.
I'm a 7599 right now.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can not install or move data with the S4, nor any Jellybean OS device. Android got rid of the option. Some devs offer the ability to install data to the card, but most do not due to customer complaints when the app messes up (swapping cards is example how apps mess up and users do not make the connection why). No conjecture on my part, but one of several actual Android team reasons why the feature was removed. The main reason was they hated the feature to begin with.
You can root, but the results with virtual mounting apps have been mixed, depending on the apps.
rushless said:
You can not install or move data with the S4, nor any Jellybean OS device. Android got rid of the option. Some devs offer the ability to install data to the card, but most do not due to customer complaints when the app messes up (swapping cards is example how apps mess up and users do not make the connection why). No conjecture on my part, but one of several actual Android team reasons why the feature was removed. The main reason was they hated the feature to begin with.
You can root, but the results with virtual mounting apps have been mixed, depending on the apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, today I learned. I never realized they actually removed this feature because I didn't actually use it.
Understandable considering your device Even Samsung was saying that and they should know better.
I think that that's the problem of everyone. Most of those upgrading to S4 are coming from S2. They are saying: "F**k, I'm buying the 16gb because that's enough space and I can move the apps to the sdcard". Most of S2 users are still running on 4.0
I think in a few months there will be more than expected complaints and customers will point out that Samsung and Verizon CSR/Sales misled that you can put apps on sd.
It makes no sense not to offer larger models for this device. If you will not use the storage buy the 16, and buy the 32 if you will. Verizon are being arrogant a$$e$ for at least not giving a public answer. Verizon have not responded to customer or media inquiries beyond a generic, "We have no current information". This same lame answer is from their Sales & Marketing department. The very people that WOULD know.
I guess a, "We are not going to carry it, because we are milking customers at the same price point for a two year as the 32 model last year" is too honest.
Make your voice heard
http://aboutus.verizonwireless.com/leadership/executive/profiles/Tami_Erwin.html
Verizon Wireless Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer
I have sent a note and others as well last week, but no response. Not even a generic one. Same link.
good luck to you guys hoping for the 32gb version. my 16gb came with 9.8gb of device storage available. i've got about 70 of the downloaded apps i normally use installed and still have 7.7gb of internal memory free. admittedly i don't use my s4 for gaming, that's what the n7 is for. i do, however, have over 30gb of media and docs loaded up to my 64gb sd card. hopefully they come out with higher capacity sd cards since that's where i'll see the crunch sooner. either way very nice device, the s4 is. and i'm already rooted!
rushless said:
I have sent a note and others as well last week, but no response. Not even a generic one. Same link.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. Some sort of reply would be a nice thing just to confirm the message got somewhere. Hopefully someone is seeing the messages and figured customer feedback is never a bad thing.
when i found this post. i thought i would find my answer . i guess know one knows.
The ones that do, appear too arrogant to bother saying, in spite of requests for an answer.
This is the reply I got when inquiring about the 32gb S4 using the link listed above.
Your inquiry would need to be directed to the manufacturer.* You may contact Samsung at 1-888-987-4357.* Samsung makes the decisions on what devices and the timeframes in which they are released.
*
Regards,
*
Shenika Frederick
Executive Office
Verizon Wireless
I guess they are just passing the buck and blaming Samsung.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
There are no current plans for a 32gb model from Verizon. That being said, if they do release a 32gb version it will be months from now as to make sure they get sales for the 16gb now. This is common practice for years. Same goes for different colors and such.
Officially no plans to release a 32gb version. Doesn't mean there won;t be one down the road.

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