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I've now had enough Primes in my possession at one time to have been able to compare different screens side-by-side, and here's my conclusion: there's significant variation in temperature, colors, and text quality between screens. And, I don't believe it represents different screen manufacturers, but rather variation within the same screens.
I say this because right now, I have three Primes that I'm deciding between as my "final" one. None of them are "perfect," even outside of the real or imagined radio limitations--on two, haptic feedback doesn't work, on a different two, there's what I consider significant light bleed, one has decent haptic feedback and minimal lightbleed, but a stuck pixel that I can't fix and speakers that seem to put out just minimally inferior sound.
What's notable, however, is that all three screens have different temperatures and overall colors. All are Gray units, all BCs, two from Best Buy and one from HH Gregg. And yes, I consider it ridiculous that I have three Primes in my possession in search of an acceptable one (and feel free to blame me or ASUS, it's entirely up to you). Here's the scoop on the screens:
#1: Overly warm, i.e., very yellow. Whites appear to be a dingy yellow. Text is markedly less crisp. Colors are somewhat washed out. Looking at Maps at a location with any detail, it's difficult to tell apart different geographical features by color alone. This is the second screen I've seen of such low quality.
#2: Less warm. Whites appear truer. Text is noticeably crisper. Colors are deeper and more pleasant. Looking at the same location in Maps, can actually distinguish between geographical features by color. Just a much, much better screen that makes the entire experience more pleasant.
Up to now, I'd though that there were two screen types: the "bad" one and the "good" one. However:
#3: Even less warm than #2. Whites even truer. Text even crisper. Colors deeper and even more pleasant. And in Maps, colors are even more delineated and it's even easier to pick out geographical details by color alone. That is, THIS screen is even BETTER than #2, which I'd thought was as good as they get. The difference between #3 and #2 is less than the difference between #2 and #1, but it's still quite noticeable.
Now, I admit that it's distinctly possible that ALL devices with LCDs would show such variability between units when held side-by-side, and that we don't notice them because we typically don't hold so many side-by-side. And, as a case in point, the screen on my Samsung Epic 4G Touch is definitely different than my wife's--my screen shows whites with a much colder (i.e., more blue) cast than hers, and I consider hers much better.
I just find it fascinating that there could be such variation in how these screens show color. I'm inclined to keep #3 in spite of the stuck pixel (it's only visible on higher brightness settings on absolute black screens) and questionable speakers, because the screen is SO much nicer. I could keep trying to get a "perfect" unit, but I wonder if I'd ever get another screen that's as good as this one. Plus, I'm just freaking tired of the whole affair.
I have a #1. It was good before the .33 update. now my colors look washed. My phone is much more saturated and truer colors.
Hmm, maybe that is why my OG TF seems to have a much nicer screen when it comes to colour: thogt it was just an anti-figer print / glare /whatever the hell coating.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Spidey01 said:
Hmm, maybe that is why my OG TF seems to have a much nicer screen when it comes to colour: thogt it was just an anti-figer print / glare /whatever the hell coating.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, the #2 and #3 Primes in my post have better screens (color- and text-wise) than my OG Transformer, looking at them side-by-side. In addition, in general, I think the OG Transformer is a little too cold comparatively, with whites being more bluish. The Primes are also brighter (even without Super IPS+ mode turned on).
However, #1 is much worse than the OG Transformer. As in, if it were a choice between the Prime with that screen and the OG Transformer, I'd take the latter. In a heartbeat. Reading ebooks on #1 is painful given the dingy white background and the jagged text.
d1ez3 said:
I have a #1. It was good before the .33 update. now my colors look washed. My phone is much more saturated and truer colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that I was able to use a #1 before and after the .33 and ICS updates, and at least as far as the temperature and text is concerned, there was no change. I can't remember looking that closely at colors outside of temperature (for example icons and such where the washed out colors are noticeable).
Given the adjustments that ASUS has been making with color relative to the Tegra 3, I wouldn't be surprised if the #1 screen + some adjustment resulted in even more washed out colors.
Hello XDA, not much of a poster around here, though a very frequent lurker
After having HTC Desire for more than 2 years, I'm finally looking forward to buying myself a brand new HTC One X+, but something caught my eye recently on the internet as I oggled for any information regarding the device. It appears than the improved "+" version uses a slightly different panel, perhaps from another manufacturer?
So far, I've found two links describing this problem, but am unable to post them as of yet because of a 10 post requirement.
The first one is on a site tweakers .net, you should be able to find the page by searching for the HTC One X+ review - look for page 4/8 of the review. Beware though, the site is in Dutch language. The tests done there clearly show the differences in brightness, dark values and color temperatures.
The other one is a Youtube video, search for "HTC One X+ vs. HTC One X" video on Pocketnowvideo channel. The difference in brightness is pretty visible.
It would be much easier if someone could post direct links to those pages.
Another curious thing that may be linked to this issue: about a week ago I went to a store to once again check out the regular One X (having done that previously quite a few times during this year), and I couldn't shake the impression that the screen on that particular model was also darker than I could remember previously. I dug through the options to see if something was affecting the brightness - it was set at max, and no power saving mode was activated as far as could tell (though not sure if ICS version of SENSE even has that option). Strange, 'cause I was hugely impressed by the screen previously, and thought it was the best I've ever seen on a mobile device. Perhaps it was the model also using a panel from different manufacturer? Not sure.
I'd be very happy to hear thoughts and personal experiences regarding the screen from you guys! I won't be getting this device for at least another month, so I'm not in a huge hurry, though any info would be quite helpful. Also, any information on this thread may be of benefit to many potential buyers of this device.
Thanks in advance!
Tweakers.net's analysis on brightness
Pocketnow's video:
About the Hue, some iPhone 4/4S screens look bluish, some look yellowish, although they have about the same max brightness. I have personally compared iPhone 4/4S screens a few times before. May be a supplier issue.
Thanks for posting direct links, much appreciated!
I hope what you say holds true to One X+ series.. at least I might "win" a unit with quality display by lottery lol.
If all units end up with darker displays however.. I might not buy it after all, time will tell I guess. I'm eager to see what others will have to say about it.
According to recently posted GSMArena review, the situation might not be as dim (obvious pun intended) after all
The screen indeed apears a bit dimmer, though it doesn't seem as a huge letdown, and it looks like it provides a slight better contrast ratio.
I thought I was the only one who has noticed this. The one x plus has a dimmer screen and the blacks are not as dark as the original one x. There is also that bluish tint. When viewed side by side the one x screen looks a lot better than the one x+. Question is why would HTC change something that's not broken. Why not just maintain the original one x screen ?
My logical guess is that HTC didn't change the display because they thought it was bad, but that it has more to do with their relationship with suppliers. Unlike Samsung and LG for instance, they do not possess productional capacity for making their own displays, instead they depend on making deals with other suppliers, and quite often those suppliers end up being their direct competitors in a smartphone market, which puts HTC at a disadvantage. Often, a supplier cannot meet productional demands for all regions, so they end up depending on a multitude of them to fill those gaps. The fact that the One X ended up with such a quality display at all was a major achievement on their part in my opinion, considering their position. Whatever happened with the original suppliers of One X display panels can be anyone's guess.
EDIT: one wild guess could be that maybe they opted for a dimmer display to conserve their not so great battery life, but I'd say it's a stretch.
Probably had deeper blacks, but in return the max white brightness isn't as good.
According to gsmarena, at 100%, whites are not as bright, but blacks are much darker too, resulting in higher contrast.
Thus, I assume display is better and eats less power... but that's only a guess, as I never owned the one x.
Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2
Has anyone directly compared in person? the screen is one of the highlights of the one x and it will be a shame if the brilliant screen was ruined. thanks
Reviewers are still lauding it's display as superb and one of the best. According to GSMArena, blacks appear a bit darker when at 100% brightness.
What remains to be seen is what users will have to say about it.
I just wanted to get everyone's opnion on the state of development of color calibration on the N10. I bought one of these tablets not too long ago, and while the imperfect color doesn't terribly annoy me, I'd still prefer if there were a solution. I'm currently running AOKP on the KTManta kernel, the latter which claimed to adjust the colors to a degree, but colors are still noticeably imperfect. In comparison to another family member's iPad 3, it's especially bad.
I know there was some discussion before regarding this, but there doesn't seem to be a solution as of right now. If there's a solution that's been found that I'm not aware of, especially one that's robust as the one found in the color control of the Galaxy Nexus, please let us know, as information about this is few and far between. Blues in particular seem especially bad.
To the best of my knowledge no one has crack the color control issue on the N10. As you point out the most documented progress is with the experimental KTManta kernel. Are you sure you are running the experimental version of KTManta? You have to dig in that thread to get the download URL. I have not tried the experimental version myself.
The last I read was that improvements have been made but the ??blues?? were still way off. That comment came from someone who had the proper test equipment which is used to calibrate HDTVs.
Why manufacturers do not either include a calibration app (RBG, gamma control) or documentation how it can be programmed I do not know. It is frustrating, feeling that with a little tweaking, the screen could be better especially during very dark scenes.
Pretty sure all the latest releases still have the color tweaks in them, but ill ask Ktoonsez today to make sure.
All that is done right now is a few minor tweaks to a couple values, which is all that can be found to do. The full color control code is not in the source at all. That means either someone needs to dig really deep and hopefully find something we can use, or port the entire section of code over from another device that has a similar chipset, which there currently isnt one.
EniGmA1987 said:
Pretty sure all the latest releases still have the color tweaks in them, but ill ask Ktoonsez today to make sure.
All that is done right now is a few minor tweaks to a couple values, which is all that can be found to do. The full color control code is not in the source at all. That means either someone needs to dig really deep and hopefully find something we can use, or port the entire section of code over from another device that has a similar chipset, which there currently isnt one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought there was a Chromebook with the same SoC?
Personally, unless I am doing a side by side comparison with my wife's Ipad4 or looking for problems I don't notice any gamma issues. I notice that when I sit down and just enjoy it, it's actually pretty easy to do. I love my Nexus 10.
brees75 said:
I thought there was a Chromebook with the same SoC?
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Click to collapse
Actually your right there is a chromebook thqat uses this chipset. I am sure a dev has already at least casually looked through its source. If anyone else wants to look, the Samsung Chromebook is supposed to use this source tree:
http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=c...now-2695.B;hb=refs/heads/firmware-snow-2695.B
source for finding that git tree is:
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os...-for-chrome-os-devices/samsung-arm-chromebook
This device uses Das U-Boot to boot the system. You can find the source in the ChromiumOS u-boot git tree. The system actually boots two different versions. The RO SPI flash uses u-boot from the firmware-snow-2695.B branch. The read-write firmware comes from the latest chromeos-v####.## branch (the version number tracks the respective upstream u-boot release).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to this if its possible, the whites on my nexus 10 look yellow
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
3DSammy said:
To the best of my knowledge no one has crack the color control issue on the N10. As you point out the most documented progress is with the experimental KTManta kernel. Are you sure you are running the experimental version of KTManta? You have to dig in that thread to get the download URL. I have not tried the experimental version myself.
The last I read was that improvements have been made but the ??blues?? were still way off. That comment came from someone who had the proper test equipment which is used to calibrate HDTVs.
Why manufacturers do not either include a calibration app (RBG, gamma control) or documentation how it can be programmed I do not know. It is frustrating, feeling that with a little tweaking, the screen could be better especially during very dark scenes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like someone above mentioned, I believe the latest official release of the kernel comes with the color tweaks baked in.
I've attached a photo of my N10 (top) next to my dad's iPad 3. It's even more egregious in real life, but even in this picture, it's easily seen how much softer and lighter the blue paint looks on the Nexus. Knowing what the car looks like in person, I can attest that the iPad is displaying it much closer to real life.
Is that the same picture or did you take pictures with each device's camera?
They look like different pictures to me(slightly different angles) ... You need to load the same picture(from the same camera) on both tablets and then take a picture of that...
the_boo said:
Is that the same picture or did you take pictures with each device's camera?
They look like different pictures to me(slightly different angles) ... You need to load the same picture(from the same camera) on both tablets and then take a picture of that...
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Click to collapse
Of course it's the same picture. How would this be a comparison of the screens if I took two different pictures with the tablets' cameras? It's clearly the same photo, and the angles are the same.
The way each device has cropped the image makes it look like different pictures and I totally agree it looks better on the ipad... Especially the first of the trees on the left
The top one looks way better to me. The iPad has a lot less detail and far too over saturated colors.
EniGmA1987 said:
The top one looks way better to me. The iPad has a lot less detail and far too over saturated colors.
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It's totally up to you to make that subjective call, but I don't think it's up for debate that the iPad has much better color reproduction. The iPad is actually very well calibrated and makes colors pop and look vibrant without cranking up the contrast and saturation too much. I don't see what you mean when you say the iPad has less detail, maybe you're seeing how the camera that took the picture underexposed some of the darker parts of the iPad's display. It's still clear to me that the blue is just waaaay off on the Nexus 10. In real life, the blue is a deep, almost purple-y blue hue. The Nexus displays it almost like a sky blue/baby blue shade. I would attempt a blind comparison between the devices, but it's difficult as it's immediately obvious to distinguish between the devices due to the differing aspect ratios.
Tom's Hardware did a great job in their review on this front, though. Can't post links, but just remove the space in the middle.
tomshardware .com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
Aftershok said:
It's totally up to you to make that subjective call, but I don't think it's up for debate that the iPad has much better color reproduction. The iPad is actually very well calibrated and makes colors pop and look vibrant without cranking up the contrast and saturation too much. I don't see what you mean when you say the iPad has less detail, maybe you're seeing how the camera that took the picture underexposed some of the darker parts of the iPad's display. It's still clear to me that the blue is just waaaay off on the Nexus 10. In real life, the blue is a deep, almost purple-y blue hue. The Nexus displays it almost like a sky blue/baby blue shade. I would attempt a blind comparison between the devices, but it's difficult as it's immediately obvious to distinguish between the devices due to the differing aspect ratios.
Tom's Hardware did a great job in their review on this front, though. Can't post links, but just remove the space in the middle.
tomshardware .com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
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Click to collapse
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
The flower pictures, I can see more detail on the N10 screen. The iPad's screen looks more saturated, but it also seems to have too much contrast, thus losing the finer details.
I like details over over-saturated colors.
I also own both devices, and the colours are definitely a lot better on the iPad
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
Aftershok said:
Like someone above mentioned, I believe the latest official release of the kernel comes with the color tweaks baked in.
I've attached a photo of my N10 (top) next to my dad's iPad 3. It's even more egregious in real life, but even in this picture, it's easily seen how much softer and lighter the blue paint looks on the Nexus. Knowing what the car looks like in person, I can attest that the iPad is displaying it much closer to real life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic, but good god do I want a focus st
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
jweitzel24 said:
Off topic, but good god do I want a focus st
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda developers app
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Click to collapse
Brofist. I love the Focus ST, and plan to buy one as soon as I can. Kudos to you for recognizing it! It first occurred to me how bad the blues were on the Nexus 10 when I was frequenting the forum for the car, and it was particularly bad with that particular shade of blue.
For those of you mentioning how there is more "detail" on the N10 display, I'm think detail is something that's better experienced in person. These photo comparisons of the screens serve better to capture the relative difference in color.
At this point, I guess we are to assume that there is not much progress being made as far as color calibration is concerned? How was the nut finally cracked for the color control on the GNex? Did it take more than nearly six months in the product cycle for it to happen? That's about where we're at for the Nexus 10.
Aftershok said:
For those of you mentioning how there is more "detail" on the N10 display, I'm think detail is something that's better experienced in person. These photo comparisons of the screens serve better to capture the relative difference in color.
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Click to collapse
It is true they are best served to compare colors, but if you are viewing the images on a proper IPS panle monitor that is calibrated properly you can see how crushed the detail is on the iPad. In the heavy color areas it is so far over-saturated that all detail within those areas is lost completely. I noticed this same thing in the darker areas of your own picture on the first page too. You claim is is probably from underexposure in the camera but that cant be right because then the Nexus 10 would have the same problem. Yet I can see detail fine on the N10 and the dark areas in the iPad are crushed.
With the color adjustments in the KTmanta kernel, after professional measurements were done to the screen we clearly find that the Nexus 10 is pretty close to perfectly calibrated in gamma, and greyscale, and many colors are near dead one. The one big issue remaining is the blue, which is basically almost into cyan color. Everything else is pretty good now.
Aftershok said:
At this point, I guess we are to assume that there is not much progress being made as far as color calibration is concerned? How was the nut finally cracked for the color control on the GNex? Did it take more than nearly six months in the product cycle for it to happen? That's about where we're at for the Nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe Ezekeel created the color control for the Galaxy nexus, or at least he is always credited when a kernel enables color control in it. I bought my GNex a couple months after it was released and the color control was already there in full swing. So I imagine the Galaxy nexus got this feature enabled very soon after its launch, probably cause it was either much easier to do on an OMAP4 processor, or the code was already there and easy to reach. This Exynos5 chipset is brand new, and has had its color control code completely removed from the source. Which is why things are so difficult.
I just wanted to share my own experience with the Nexus 10's color calibration. I "rented" a unit from office depot and returned it 2 days later because the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad. If you just looked at the grass you'd figure it was spring on the ipad and fall on the nexus 10.
Here is my photo gallery comparing the two
http://imgur.com/a/zQ8rF
please don't 'rawr nexus 10 rules' 'rawr your camera sucks' 'rawr pixel 1647 in the upper left 37th quadrant looks superior to pixel 4728 on the ipad rawr' at me.
I took some quick shots with my nexus 4 before i took it back, these are 1000000%%%%% unscientific comparions and should be taken with a grain of salt. If you want to see the full resolutions click on the gear icon on the upper right.
s1lenz said:
I just wanted to share my own experience with the Nexus 10's color calibration. I "rented" a unit from office depot and returned it 2 days later because the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad. If you just looked at the grass you'd figure it was spring on the ipad and fall on the nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
based on this gallery, both are off, IMO. Nexus 10 colours are definitely weaker overall but the iPad is a touch too saturated -- those reds are on fire.
s1lenz said:
the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad.
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Click to collapse
Overall color temp was brought to be a bit "cooler" with the color tweaks in the KTManta kernel. But yes stock colors are warm.
Check this out, I'm not saying its a cure all but it helps
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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Under what settings?
leyvatron said:
Under what settings?
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Click to collapse
Accessibility
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mrwinkle13 said:
Accessibility
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Click to collapse
You can manually adjust it. [emoji1] Nice find.
Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
leyvatron said:
You can manually adjust it. [emoji1] Nice find.
Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Glad you like
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mrwinkle13 said:
Check this out, I'm not saying its a cure all but it helps
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Click to collapse
Thanks. But where do we put it to get close to 6500k ±500. I say ± 500 because some like a slightly cooler screen and some prefer it warmer, and warmer is actually more natural and accurate. I've played around with it a few minutes and the 9000K is just too cool. Comfort view on medium without using this is closest I've gotten to a desired (actually more desirable, but still not ideal) color temp. Every body chime in where they're putting the circle cursor that they gives close to 6500k or thereabouts.
For those who don't know what comfort view is
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OK. Still playing with it but I think I have it close. With comfort view OFF, the screen was way too cool still. I was running medium comfort view already. I turned off comfort view and still couldn't find a happy place. So I turned it back on. I think some people will like it on medium if you like it a little cooler, and out it on high if you want it a little warmer and try it where I put my green circle at. YMMV though because who knows if LG sourced the same supplier, much less type of screen since this screen calibrated to crap for a very very flagship price. Let me know and see what you guys come up with.
Still hurts my eyes. I'm so used to my note4 still
Hmm.. Am I the only one who likes comfort view off? I'm coming from the note 7v and I still like it off. Why again do people want less blue? I find my screen whites to be really white with comfort view off. Why is that a bad thing? Lol
@rbiter said:
OK. Still playing with it but I think I have it close. With comfort view OFF, the screen was way too cool still. I was running medium comfort view already. I turned off comfort view and still couldn't find a happy place. So I turned it back on. I think some people will like it on medium if you like it a little cooler, and out it on high if you want it a little warmer and try it where I put my green circle at. YMMV though because who knows if LG sourced the same supplier, much less type of screen since this screen calibrated to crap for a very very flagship price. Let me know and see what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used your pic as a guide and got it to a point I'm comfortable with
koppee1 said:
Hmm.. Am I the only one who likes comfort view off? I'm coming from the note 7v and I still like it off. Why again do people want less blue? I find my screen whites to be really white with comfort view off. Why is that a bad thing? Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because your colors and gamma are fubar'ed really bad. You want some semblance of color accuracy for the pictures you take. They look horrible and i mean absolutely horrid looking at the pics taken on the phone. You have to transfer them to a more accurate display to see what you have. There are other more important reasons, but they are rare. And there are less important reasons that I don't care to mention. And as is, the kelvin being so high will probably mess with your sleep patterns. Before and during. And then you have the problem of you and others seeing the same images but you might look like a fool when discussing the color of something. And then there is the fact, you should expect a somewhat decently calibrated display, especially from a company that specializes in displays. Samsung, lg and sharp should have calibrated displays ootb. They should also off some kind of CMS or at least presets to cater to people like you who don't expect a quality display and shrug it off as nothing and desirable. You are in the minority by far. Even apple who has nothing to with manufacturing displays pays a slight premium to have their displays calibrated before the phone is sold. At the very least we should be getting displays in the 6-7000k range which is ±500K from 6504K and a gamma of ±.2-.3 from 2.2. also, it would be nice to get a LCD than can display blacks lower than .02 luminance with lower brightness and less than .030 with higher or max brightness but that last part is more wishful thinking and reality dictates that around .04±.005 is more reasonable to expect. I wonder if some manufacturers goes out on a limb and makes a FALD display. It's feasible but would probably add too much thickness to a phone even if 1cm thick phones were the norm.
As an aside, I wish more phones were about 1cm thickness to accommodate bigger batteries, designs with passive cooling in mind like some recent Samsung flagships, better drop handling and quality control because everything is so crammed sometimes engineering doesn't take into consideration how everything will act in the real world in consumer hands. Thicker phones would give engineers more wiggle room to make better phones with bigger batteries and probably more innovation would come out instead of being held back or dropped altogether. I think many consumers have any idea the implications and far reaching depths of the tango phone. It is stuff like that that will make navigating easier among other things. And when holograms are in everybody's house tango phones will surely be a contributing factor into the foundation of the quality of those holograms. For now some of the data will probably be repurposed for VR.
@rbiter said:
Because your colors and gamma are fubar'ed really bad. You want some semblance of color accuracy for the pictures you take. They look horrible and i mean absolutely horrid looking at the pics taken on the phone. You have to transfer them to a more accurate display to see what you have. There are other more important reasons, but they are rare. And there are less important reasons that I don't care to mention. And as is, the kelvin being so high will probably mess with your sleep patterns. Before and during. And then you have the problem of you and others seeing the same images but you might look like a fool when discussing the color of something. And then there is the fact, you should expect a somewhat decently calibrated display, especially from a company that specializes in displays. Samsung, lg and sharp should have calibrated displays ootb. They should also off some kind of CMS or at least presets to cater to people like you who don't expect a quality display and shrug it off as nothing and desirable. You are in the minority by far. Even apple who has nothing to with manufacturing displays pays a slight premium to have their displays calibrated before the phone is sold. At the very least we should be getting displays in the 6-7000k range which is �±500K from 6504K and a gamma of �±.2-.3 from 2.2. also, it would be nice to get a LCD than can display blacks lower than .02 luminance with lower brightness and less than .030 with higher or max brightness but that last part is more wishful thinking and reality dictates that around .04�±.005 is more reasonable to expect. I wonder if some manufacturers goes out on a limb and makes a FALD display. It's feasible but would probably add too much thickness to a phone even if 1cm thick phones were the norm.
As an aside, I wish more phones were about 1cm thickness to accommodate bigger batteries, designs with passive cooling in mind like some recent Samsung flagships, better drop handling and quality control because everything is so crammed sometimes engineering doesn't take into consideration how everything will act in the real world in consumer hands. Thicker phones would give engineers more wiggle room to make better phones with bigger batteries and probably more innovation would come out instead of being held back or dropped altogether. I think many consumers have any idea the implications and far reaching depths of the tango phone. It is stuff like that that will make navigating easier among other things. And when holograms are in everybody's house tango phones will surely be a contributing factor into the foundation of the quality of those holograms. For now some of the data will probably be repurposed for VR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing to bear in mind...
Just about no one IRL owns a color accurate display. Further just because they do in no way means their OS properly utilizes it. Windows of all flavors has for years has been renowned for this. Web browsers also almost all fail at color management too.
People live to squawk about accurate colors, tbh despite their best efforts, only photogs really ever pull it off whereas lay consumers almost never do.
Who on XDA owns a colorimeter? I rest my case.
Skripka said:
Thing to bear in mind...
Just about no one IRL owns a color accurate display. Further just because they do in no way means their OS properly utilizes it. Windows of all flavors has for years has been renowned for this. Web browsers also almost all fail at color management too.
People live to squawk about accurate colors, tbh despite their best efforts, only photogs really ever pull it off whereas lay consumers almost never do.
Who on XDA owns a colorimeter? I rest my case.
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Lol. Wrong. Samsung TVs are known for their color accuracy ootb. I calibrated my laptop display. Haven't bothered calibrating my Samsung JS9500 with tools and just used a disk because it only needed minor adjustment.
Photographers aren't the only one. Studios that make movies use calibrated displays. Professional calibrators use calibrated, and some even bring smaller monitors to show their customers what it will look like since the average consumer doesn't know how much it will affect what they're used to and the calibrator wants the customer to know what they're getting and not have to deal with angry customers who have no clue. And as I mentioned, I left some leniency on the color temp 6504K ±500 should suffice. The pics I've taken on my v20 look like garbage until I made the adjustments. Wouldn't you expect some reasonable color accuracy from your phone display? Especially phones that cost $600+? I definitely expect it from the v20 being an $800 phone. For those that night the pixel, pixel xl and 256GB iphone should expect no less than very very minor deviations. And colorimiters and spectrometers aren't too expensive for decent brands and can get a lot of noise as tv ages or hook up their friends. Light meters otoh can get expensive quick. The cheap ones aren't worth using on an amoled or FALD display. A cheap one would work with most smartphone displays just fine unless you're measuring below .02 I believe.
Is too much too ask for a closely calibrsted display? I mean geez. Smartphone OEM's are already talking about HDR and HDR+ on these small displays. Why jump ahead if you can't get the basics good enough? And it's also amusing some Samsung fanboys were bragging their displays could go over 1000nits. It is very possible that mightve had something to do with the phones combusting. That is a very high draw on the battery and the power circuits and power management. 1000nits would kill your OLED lifespan much more quickly, the longevity of your SEALED battery shortened and could easily bulge the battery sooner than later drawing that much current for a display smaller than 6".
Anyways, I think consumers should expect no less than a 6504K display ±500 and a gamma of 2.2 or close to it. On flagship phones at least. The display used on the v20 should be in less than $400 phone. The blacks even suck. Contrast is decent though but I'm guessing that is because of the 9000K temperature where whites look whiter but in reality they are bluer.
@rbiter said:
Lol. Wrong. Samsung TVs are known for their color accuracy ootb. I calibrated my laptop display. Haven't bothered calibrating my Samsung JS9500 with tools and just used a disk because it only needed minor adjustment.
Photographers aren't the only one. Studios that make movies use calibrated displays. Professional calibrators use calibrated, and some even bring smaller monitors to show their customers what it will look like since the average consumer doesn't know how much it will affect what they're used to and the calibrator wants the customer to know what they're getting and not have to deal with angry customers who have no clue. And as I mentioned, I left some leniency on the color temp 6504K ±500 should suffice. The pics I've taken on my v20 look like garbage until I made the adjustments. Wouldn't you expect some reasonable color accuracy from your phone display? Especially phones that cost $600+? I definitely expect it from the v20 being an $800 phone. For those that night the pixel, pixel xl and 256GB iphone should expect no less than very very minor deviations. And colorimiters and spectrometers aren't too expensive for decent brands and can get a lot of noise as tv ages or hook up their friends. Light meters otoh can get expensive quick. The cheap ones aren't worth using on an amoled or FALD display. A cheap one would work with most smartphone displays just fine unless you're measuring below .02 I believe.
Is too much too ask for a closely calibrsted display? I mean geez. Smartphone OEM's are already talking about HDR and HDR+ on these small displays. Why jump ahead if you can't get the basics good enough? And it's also amusing some Samsung fanboys were bragging their displays could go over 1000nits. It is very possible that mightve had something to do with the phones combusting. That is a very high draw on the battery and the power circuits and power management. 1000nits would kill your OLED lifespan much more quickly, the longevity of your SEALED battery shortened and could easily bulge the battery sooner than later drawing that much current for a display smaller than 6".
Anyways, I think consumers should expect no less than a 6504K display ±500 and a gamma of 2.2 or close to it. On flagship phones at least. The display used on the v20 should be in less than $400 phone. The blacks even suck. Contrast is decent though but I'm guessing that is because of the 9000K temperature where whites look whiter but in reality they are bluer.
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D65 is not the be all end all of accuracy. Stop harping like it is. It is one and only one aspect. You can have a panel with good D65 that still does not reproduce accurate colors. And even on an accurate panels, color output varies across it.
You want to talk accuracy you need to be addressing issues like sRGB versus ARGB, and also presently the LCD panel makers are hoping to force the rec.2020 colorspace (which has a huge range of greens), in order to con you the consumer into replacing your otherwise good monitor. You also need to be addressing not just the panels output but also the colorspace of the content-which is why OS matters-because Windows as stated fails supremely at managing color spaces. Hell most content isn't even managed right to sRGB that has been around for 20+ years as an ISO standard....For a brief while the panel makers were pushing ARGB and "vivid" colors....now with UHD broadcast content they want to force a universe where even sRGB hasn't caught on into rec.2020
Thanks for admitting you don't have a colorimeter. As much as you harp on color accuracy, you only talk the talk and only talk the talk about D65. You have no idea what your colors actually are or if they are accurate be they on your TV or your computer monitor or your phone. Sorry. Thems the harsh facts. Photogs are really the only ones who know about this stuff and walk the walk, all other consumers harp on it--but really they're all talk and no cattle IRL.
Well aware of other standards. But is asking for D65 and CMS too much. No. This screen is wack and as mentioned should expect better from a display manufacturer and a flagship phone. Well aware of the other standards tr here trying to push and many OEMs haven't even got the current ones right. If we have passive attitude like yours do you think it will ever be fixed? And yes, photographers are probably the most prominent activists of color accuracy so I'm quite sure they want us to see it on a reasonably somewhat accurate display. We are in the 21st century far from black and white and many years of innovation and improving. I don't think it is much to ask for this especially when they're outsourcing the labor to save pennies.
@rbiter said:
Well aware of other standards. But is asking for D65 and CMS too much. No. This screen is wack and as mentioned should expect better from a display manufacturer and a flagship phone. Well aware of the other standards tr here trying to push and many OEMs haven't even got the current ones right. If we have passive attitude like yours do you think it will ever be fixed? And yes, photographers are probably the most prominent activists of color accuracy so I'm quite sure they want us to see it on a reasonably somewhat accurate display. We are in the 21st century far from black and white and many years of innovation and improving. I don't think it is much to ask for this especially when they're outsourcing the labor to save pennies.
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Capitalism is fundamentally a race to the bottom dollar and highest margin. Making an outstanding product gets in the way. Given how long it has taken for even top shelf professional ridiculously expensive LCD displays to get as good as CRTs like FW900 were 20 years ago...you'll probably be waiting a while.
Come to think of it, does Android as a platform even support CMS? And does Google bake it into the source they send OEMs? And then do any apps actually use it? I'd guess no, no, and no... But but I haven't checked.
Well that was all very informative. Thank you.
All that said, can any of you extremely intelligent experts tell us simple minded ones how that helps to calibrate V20 screen colors?
Skripka said:
Capitalism is fundamentally a race to the bottom dollar and highest margin. Making an outstanding product gets in the way. Given how long it has taken for even top shelf professional ridiculously expensive LCD displays to get as good as CRTs like FW900 were 20 years ago...you'll probably be waiting a while.
Come to think of it, does Android as a platform even support CMS? And does Google bake it into the source they send OEMs? And then do any apps actually use it? I'd guess no, no, and no... But but I haven't checked.
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I'm pretty sure android doesn't support CMS baked in. The screens get calibrated at factory to my knowledge. Or not calibrated. Samsung might support CMS somewhere deep in the firmware but as mentioned before they're usually calibrated pretty well ootb and have 3-4 options for modes. One of the modes even caters to people that like cooler screens. Just wishing that LG had implemented something like this in the V20 and not have to use the half baked workaround to get decent color accuracy. Took some pictures of the sunset yesterday with incoming rain clouds and was much happier with what I am using now than previously. And from what I've read, it costs approximately $1-3 USD to calibrate smartphone displays if your phone is manufactured and/or assembled in China. Cuts into profit yes, but I think at least flagships, especially the top tiered camera ones should get it. What's the use of a good camera if the pictures look like crap on the display. Makes editing it to make it more appealing or artistic harder or less desirable, on the smartphone at least in this social media age. I just want my nephew pictures and scenery pictures to look good when I look at them right away. I dont think that is too much to ask for, profits be damned.
---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------
BroJack said:
Well that was all very informative. Thank you.
All that said, can any of you extremely intelligent experts tell us simple minded ones how that helps to calibrate V20 screen colors?
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Just a thread to help those who want a warmer or more accurate screen. I made a thread about using comfort view to help. The op found a setting in accessibility where you can manually change color profiles or manually change how colors are presented. My picture above was just a starting point for those who decide to use this where I found my screen to be more desireable, easy on the eyes and much closer to color accuracy. Might have to use the xrite on this screen and see if it helps. I am not a pro and between the software and having to use a guide each time is difficult. Just use that green circle, if that is the right color (lol), to get a base line of what you want your screen to look like. You can get a little more punch, cooler, warmer or just off the charts inaccurate colors.
@rbiter said:
I'm pretty sure android doesn't support CMS baked in. The screens get calibrated at factory to my knowledge. Or not calibrated. Samsung might support CMS somewhere deep in the firmware but as mentioned before they're usually calibrated pretty well ootb and have 3-4 options for modes. One of the modes even caters to people that like cooler screens. Just wishing that LG had implemented something like this in the V20 and not have to use the half baked workaround to get decent color accuracy. Took some pictures of the sunset yesterday with incoming rain clouds and was much happier with what I am using now than previously. And from what I've read, it costs approximately $1-3 USD to calibrate smartphone displays if your phone is manufactured and/or assembled in China. Cuts into profit yes, but I think at least flagships, especially the top tiered camera ones should get it. What's the use of a good camera if the pictures look like crap on the display. Makes editing it to make it more appealing or artistic harder or less desirable, on the smartphone at least in this social media age. I just want my nephew pictures and scenery pictures to look good when I look at them right away. I dont think that is too much to ask for, profits be damned.
---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------
Just a thread to help those who want a warmer or more accurate screen. I made a thread about using comfort view to help. The op found a setting in accessibility where you can manually change color profiles or manually change how colors are presented. My picture above was just a starting point for those who decide to use this where I found my screen to be more desireable, easy on the eyes and much closer to color accuracy. Might have to use the xrite on this screen and see if it helps. I am not a pro and between the software and having to use a guide each time is difficult. Just use that green circle, if that is the right color (lol), to get a base line of what you want your screen to look like. You can get a little more punch, cooler, warmer or just off the charts inaccurate colors.
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From some cursory reading....with the much maligned G5 LG actually targeted rec.2020 (alias DCI-P3) colorspace.
So far I haven't found any reference to what colorspace the v20's panel was intended to fit. Nor if anyone has tried measuring the screen in anything other than sRGB.Given that they were actually able to ship a rec2020 panel in the previous flagship....their very hot D65 value for v20 is more strange. I mention it as the rec2020 space is MUCH more deep in the blue/green department. Just a hairbrained theory, I don't own a colorimeter to check-but mnaybe the hot screen on v20 comes from calibrating more for rec.2020 as opposed to sRGB/ARGB.
One interesting thing that most people aren't talking about is the fact that Samsung's new displays are actually TUV Rheinland certified for significantly less blue light emission (advertised 42% reduction), while still maintaining optimal colors and picture quality.
To me this is a huge selling point. Most people probably don't care, but blue light is shown to cause significant eye strain, and slow the development of melatonin in the brain., destroying your sleep quality. Just curious on everyone's thoughts about this.
Here's some more info if anyone's interested;
https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/design/
https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung...rp-reduction-blue-light-emission-oled-panels/
Samsung discussed it at their event. Reviewers/Youtubers and tech sites rarely comment on blue light emission. You'll come across more articles on how to kill Bixby! The Honor 8X was certified too, but few speak about it.
Ace42 said:
Samsung discussed it at their event. Reviewers/Youtubers and tech sites rarely comment on blue light emission. You'll come across more articles on how to kill Bixby! The Honor 8X was certified too, but few speak about it.
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Didn't know about the honor 8x. Is that also a Samsung display? I'm curios to know exactly what manufactures use Samsung displays aside from Apple.
hope this doesn't mean the screen will be more yellow. I hate that. loved Samsungs bc of their nicer, bluer screens tbh. my pixel 2 looks nasty compared to my note 9.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
jayochs said:
hope this doesn't mean the screen will be more yellow. I hate that. loved Samsungs bc of their nicer, bluer screens tbh. my pixel 2 looks nasty compared to my note 9.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Blue-light filters usually make things yellow, but I checked the s10/s10+ in a shop and the display is PERFECT, the white levels are incredibly pure and it looks cleaner than my XZ1's IPS which I thought would have unbeatable whites when compared to oleds, that's no longer the case.
I always hated OLED but Samsung found a way to reduce its drawbacks while creating a super accurate panel, if you want to buy one last AMOLED device while waiting for Micro-led to be a thing in mobile, this looks like a very wise choice.
Corv0 said:
Blue-light filters usually make things yellow, but I checked the s10/s10+ in a shop and the display is PERFECT, the white levels are incredibly pure and it looks cleaner than my XZ1's IPS which I thought would have unbeatable whites when compared to oleds, that's no longer the case.
I always hated OLED but Samsung found a way to reduce its drawbacks while creating a super accurate panel, if you want to buy one last AMOLED device while waiting for Micro-led to be a thing in mobile, this looks like a very wise choice.
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Didnt even know about micro led until now. Does look very promising. Hopefully we see in on the S12 if not sooner.
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Didnt even know about micro led until now. Does look very promising. Hopefully we see in on the S12 if not sooner.
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They're still trying to shrink it for the average TV size, I hope it will come soon.
Did some more research on the Honor 8x, it appears they are advertising blue light reduction with their "eye comfort mode" which tweaks the colors you are seeing. While on the other hand, Samsung is pointing out the 42% reduction from previous OLED's still maintains the same colors you're seeing. So based off that, the S10 is capable of reducing exposure without software tweaks.
It also appears that out of the box, the S10 is defaulted to the "Natural" color setting, and provides a "Vibrant" setting, which does increase color saturation. I wonder if the higher color setting changes your exposure by much...
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Did some more research on the Honor 8x, it appears they are advertising blue light reduction with their "eye comfort mode" which tweaks the colors you are seeing. While on the other hand, Samsung is pointing out the 42% reduction from previous OLED's still maintains the same colors you're seeing. So based off that, the S10 is capable of reducing exposure without software tweaks.
It also appears that out of the box, the S10 is defaulted to the "Natural" color setting, and provides a "Vibrant" setting, which does increase color saturation. I wonder if the higher color setting changes your exposure by much...
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Then the Honor 8x's solution is nothing more than a software re calibration tweak, I'm glad the S10 comes with a hardware solution that doesn't impact viewing experience.
But yeah using Vivid mode will increase your exposure to blue light depending on the displayed colors, I wouldn't worry that much, it is in no way as dangerous as the exposure to TVs, Desktop monitors or even daylight.
Can someone link to a bluelight study that shows its harmful. I lost my ebsco access when I left college. I always thought this was an overreaction. I've been staring at cool temp computer screens since the 90s, and my recent eye exam says my eyes are still perfect.
I've found the press release, but no peer reviewed papers.
http://utnews.utoledo.edu/index.php/08_08_2018/ut-chemists-discover-how-blue-light-speeds-blindness
YellowGTO said:
Can someone link to a bluelight study that shows its harmful. I lost my ebsco access when I left college. I always thought this was an overreaction. I've been staring at cool temp computer screens since the 90s, and my recent eye exam says my eyes are still perfect.
I've found the press release, but no peer reviewed papers.
http://utnews.utoledo.edu/index.php/08_08_2018/ut-chemists-discover-how-blue-light-speeds-blindness
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You can get peer reviewed content from google. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0194218
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734149/
Glad to know I'm not the only one. I even wear reading glasses with blue light filter due to my extreme light sensitivity, so yes, totally big deal for me too
Pwm is for losers. Now Sony is also on the oled bandwagon.