I just wanted to get everyone's opnion on the state of development of color calibration on the N10. I bought one of these tablets not too long ago, and while the imperfect color doesn't terribly annoy me, I'd still prefer if there were a solution. I'm currently running AOKP on the KTManta kernel, the latter which claimed to adjust the colors to a degree, but colors are still noticeably imperfect. In comparison to another family member's iPad 3, it's especially bad.
I know there was some discussion before regarding this, but there doesn't seem to be a solution as of right now. If there's a solution that's been found that I'm not aware of, especially one that's robust as the one found in the color control of the Galaxy Nexus, please let us know, as information about this is few and far between. Blues in particular seem especially bad.
To the best of my knowledge no one has crack the color control issue on the N10. As you point out the most documented progress is with the experimental KTManta kernel. Are you sure you are running the experimental version of KTManta? You have to dig in that thread to get the download URL. I have not tried the experimental version myself.
The last I read was that improvements have been made but the ??blues?? were still way off. That comment came from someone who had the proper test equipment which is used to calibrate HDTVs.
Why manufacturers do not either include a calibration app (RBG, gamma control) or documentation how it can be programmed I do not know. It is frustrating, feeling that with a little tweaking, the screen could be better especially during very dark scenes.
Pretty sure all the latest releases still have the color tweaks in them, but ill ask Ktoonsez today to make sure.
All that is done right now is a few minor tweaks to a couple values, which is all that can be found to do. The full color control code is not in the source at all. That means either someone needs to dig really deep and hopefully find something we can use, or port the entire section of code over from another device that has a similar chipset, which there currently isnt one.
EniGmA1987 said:
Pretty sure all the latest releases still have the color tweaks in them, but ill ask Ktoonsez today to make sure.
All that is done right now is a few minor tweaks to a couple values, which is all that can be found to do. The full color control code is not in the source at all. That means either someone needs to dig really deep and hopefully find something we can use, or port the entire section of code over from another device that has a similar chipset, which there currently isnt one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought there was a Chromebook with the same SoC?
Personally, unless I am doing a side by side comparison with my wife's Ipad4 or looking for problems I don't notice any gamma issues. I notice that when I sit down and just enjoy it, it's actually pretty easy to do. I love my Nexus 10.
brees75 said:
I thought there was a Chromebook with the same SoC?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually your right there is a chromebook thqat uses this chipset. I am sure a dev has already at least casually looked through its source. If anyone else wants to look, the Samsung Chromebook is supposed to use this source tree:
http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=c...now-2695.B;hb=refs/heads/firmware-snow-2695.B
source for finding that git tree is:
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os...-for-chrome-os-devices/samsung-arm-chromebook
This device uses Das U-Boot to boot the system. You can find the source in the ChromiumOS u-boot git tree. The system actually boots two different versions. The RO SPI flash uses u-boot from the firmware-snow-2695.B branch. The read-write firmware comes from the latest chromeos-v####.## branch (the version number tracks the respective upstream u-boot release).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to this if its possible, the whites on my nexus 10 look yellow
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
3DSammy said:
To the best of my knowledge no one has crack the color control issue on the N10. As you point out the most documented progress is with the experimental KTManta kernel. Are you sure you are running the experimental version of KTManta? You have to dig in that thread to get the download URL. I have not tried the experimental version myself.
The last I read was that improvements have been made but the ??blues?? were still way off. That comment came from someone who had the proper test equipment which is used to calibrate HDTVs.
Why manufacturers do not either include a calibration app (RBG, gamma control) or documentation how it can be programmed I do not know. It is frustrating, feeling that with a little tweaking, the screen could be better especially during very dark scenes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like someone above mentioned, I believe the latest official release of the kernel comes with the color tweaks baked in.
I've attached a photo of my N10 (top) next to my dad's iPad 3. It's even more egregious in real life, but even in this picture, it's easily seen how much softer and lighter the blue paint looks on the Nexus. Knowing what the car looks like in person, I can attest that the iPad is displaying it much closer to real life.
Is that the same picture or did you take pictures with each device's camera?
They look like different pictures to me(slightly different angles) ... You need to load the same picture(from the same camera) on both tablets and then take a picture of that...
the_boo said:
Is that the same picture or did you take pictures with each device's camera?
They look like different pictures to me(slightly different angles) ... You need to load the same picture(from the same camera) on both tablets and then take a picture of that...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it's the same picture. How would this be a comparison of the screens if I took two different pictures with the tablets' cameras? It's clearly the same photo, and the angles are the same.
The way each device has cropped the image makes it look like different pictures and I totally agree it looks better on the ipad... Especially the first of the trees on the left
The top one looks way better to me. The iPad has a lot less detail and far too over saturated colors.
EniGmA1987 said:
The top one looks way better to me. The iPad has a lot less detail and far too over saturated colors.
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Click to collapse
It's totally up to you to make that subjective call, but I don't think it's up for debate that the iPad has much better color reproduction. The iPad is actually very well calibrated and makes colors pop and look vibrant without cranking up the contrast and saturation too much. I don't see what you mean when you say the iPad has less detail, maybe you're seeing how the camera that took the picture underexposed some of the darker parts of the iPad's display. It's still clear to me that the blue is just waaaay off on the Nexus 10. In real life, the blue is a deep, almost purple-y blue hue. The Nexus displays it almost like a sky blue/baby blue shade. I would attempt a blind comparison between the devices, but it's difficult as it's immediately obvious to distinguish between the devices due to the differing aspect ratios.
Tom's Hardware did a great job in their review on this front, though. Can't post links, but just remove the space in the middle.
tomshardware .com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
Aftershok said:
It's totally up to you to make that subjective call, but I don't think it's up for debate that the iPad has much better color reproduction. The iPad is actually very well calibrated and makes colors pop and look vibrant without cranking up the contrast and saturation too much. I don't see what you mean when you say the iPad has less detail, maybe you're seeing how the camera that took the picture underexposed some of the darker parts of the iPad's display. It's still clear to me that the blue is just waaaay off on the Nexus 10. In real life, the blue is a deep, almost purple-y blue hue. The Nexus displays it almost like a sky blue/baby blue shade. I would attempt a blind comparison between the devices, but it's difficult as it's immediately obvious to distinguish between the devices due to the differing aspect ratios.
Tom's Hardware did a great job in their review on this front, though. Can't post links, but just remove the space in the middle.
tomshardware .com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
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Click to collapse
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nexus-10-benchmark-tablet,3410-6.html
The flower pictures, I can see more detail on the N10 screen. The iPad's screen looks more saturated, but it also seems to have too much contrast, thus losing the finer details.
I like details over over-saturated colors.
I also own both devices, and the colours are definitely a lot better on the iPad
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
Aftershok said:
Like someone above mentioned, I believe the latest official release of the kernel comes with the color tweaks baked in.
I've attached a photo of my N10 (top) next to my dad's iPad 3. It's even more egregious in real life, but even in this picture, it's easily seen how much softer and lighter the blue paint looks on the Nexus. Knowing what the car looks like in person, I can attest that the iPad is displaying it much closer to real life.
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Off topic, but good god do I want a focus st
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
jweitzel24 said:
Off topic, but good god do I want a focus st
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda developers app
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Click to collapse
Brofist. I love the Focus ST, and plan to buy one as soon as I can. Kudos to you for recognizing it! It first occurred to me how bad the blues were on the Nexus 10 when I was frequenting the forum for the car, and it was particularly bad with that particular shade of blue.
For those of you mentioning how there is more "detail" on the N10 display, I'm think detail is something that's better experienced in person. These photo comparisons of the screens serve better to capture the relative difference in color.
At this point, I guess we are to assume that there is not much progress being made as far as color calibration is concerned? How was the nut finally cracked for the color control on the GNex? Did it take more than nearly six months in the product cycle for it to happen? That's about where we're at for the Nexus 10.
Aftershok said:
For those of you mentioning how there is more "detail" on the N10 display, I'm think detail is something that's better experienced in person. These photo comparisons of the screens serve better to capture the relative difference in color.
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Click to collapse
It is true they are best served to compare colors, but if you are viewing the images on a proper IPS panle monitor that is calibrated properly you can see how crushed the detail is on the iPad. In the heavy color areas it is so far over-saturated that all detail within those areas is lost completely. I noticed this same thing in the darker areas of your own picture on the first page too. You claim is is probably from underexposure in the camera but that cant be right because then the Nexus 10 would have the same problem. Yet I can see detail fine on the N10 and the dark areas in the iPad are crushed.
With the color adjustments in the KTmanta kernel, after professional measurements were done to the screen we clearly find that the Nexus 10 is pretty close to perfectly calibrated in gamma, and greyscale, and many colors are near dead one. The one big issue remaining is the blue, which is basically almost into cyan color. Everything else is pretty good now.
Aftershok said:
At this point, I guess we are to assume that there is not much progress being made as far as color calibration is concerned? How was the nut finally cracked for the color control on the GNex? Did it take more than nearly six months in the product cycle for it to happen? That's about where we're at for the Nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe Ezekeel created the color control for the Galaxy nexus, or at least he is always credited when a kernel enables color control in it. I bought my GNex a couple months after it was released and the color control was already there in full swing. So I imagine the Galaxy nexus got this feature enabled very soon after its launch, probably cause it was either much easier to do on an OMAP4 processor, or the code was already there and easy to reach. This Exynos5 chipset is brand new, and has had its color control code completely removed from the source. Which is why things are so difficult.
I just wanted to share my own experience with the Nexus 10's color calibration. I "rented" a unit from office depot and returned it 2 days later because the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad. If you just looked at the grass you'd figure it was spring on the ipad and fall on the nexus 10.
Here is my photo gallery comparing the two
http://imgur.com/a/zQ8rF
please don't 'rawr nexus 10 rules' 'rawr your camera sucks' 'rawr pixel 1647 in the upper left 37th quadrant looks superior to pixel 4728 on the ipad rawr' at me.
I took some quick shots with my nexus 4 before i took it back, these are 1000000%%%%% unscientific comparions and should be taken with a grain of salt. If you want to see the full resolutions click on the gear icon on the upper right.
s1lenz said:
I just wanted to share my own experience with the Nexus 10's color calibration. I "rented" a unit from office depot and returned it 2 days later because the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad. If you just looked at the grass you'd figure it was spring on the ipad and fall on the nexus 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
based on this gallery, both are off, IMO. Nexus 10 colours are definitely weaker overall but the iPad is a touch too saturated -- those reds are on fire.
s1lenz said:
the colors were so overly warm compared to an ipad.
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Click to collapse
Overall color temp was brought to be a bit "cooler" with the color tweaks in the KTManta kernel. But yes stock colors are warm.
Related
i have the photon , but i really dont like the screen quality (sharpness and color wise)compared to my old epic. not trying to troll here, just to ask if anyone think it can be fixed with a software update or is it a hardware issue?
The general consensus is that's just how the phone is. However some lucky people don't seem to notice screens quality (or lack thereof).
Welcome to the PenTile display.
Just the way it is. For best results, try to hold the phone far away.
I think it's actually a pretty cool technology.
irev210 said:
Welcome to the PenTile display.
Just the way it is. For best results, try to hold the phone far away.
I think it's actually a pretty cool technology.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you please share with me whats so cool about this technology? thanks
ericizzy1 said:
i have the photon , but i really dont like the screen quality (sharpness and color wise)compared to my old epic. not trying to troll here, just to ask if anyone think it can be fixed with a software update or is it a hardware issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coming from the Epic, who's Super AMOLED screen also uses a pentile subpixel arrangement also mind you, you shouldn't really be noticing a sharpness difference between them. But yes, any and literally all LCDs do look duller and more muted than the Super AMOLED. It's just a nature of the technology.
ericizzy1 said:
can you please share with me whats so cool about this technology? thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I can say that, due to it's white subpixels, it is a brighter display that is much more viewable in sunlight. It is also much better on toast.
Wilty
I watch videos all the time on my phone and I don't like it. It is too grainy, the color is off, too much sharpness, black is too dark and any hint of light in the scene and its too bright. HD quality videos look pretty good but lower resolution videos just look bad.
I see the problem in dark scenes where there is very little light you can't differentiate any objects in the dark area. Its all a blur. In the same scene the face has little light on it but it will be over satuated. Its like someone is shining a flashlight in his face. If any of you watch Showtime's Dexter you will see what I mean as the show has a lot of scenes in dark warehouses.
Yes I think they can make it better with software. They can turn down the sharpness. They can allow a little light to be on during dark scene rather then let it be all black (total absence of light). They can try different color temperature because right now all the human skin looks too red to me. They can dial down the intensity of white on lighted scenes.
Just got home with my Photon, which I bought primarily because it's a world phone and specs looked pretty good. Gotta agree with OP, the display is piss poor. Just might return it for something else. Kinda mad I turned in my EVO. Overall I played $99. We'll see...sigh.
Fyahstarter said:
Just got home with my Photon, which I bought primarily because it's a world phone and specs looked pretty good. Gotta agree with OP, the display is piss poor. Just might return it for something else. Kinda mad I turned in my EVO. Overall I played $99. We'll see...sigh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First thing you need to do is turn the brightness all the way down and turn off the auto brightness too. The screen will look much better.
ericizzy1 said:
can you please share with me whats so cool about this technology? thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jump over here and do some reading:
http://pentileblog.com/
One thing that is kind of cool, is that the CEO actually replied to (and blogged about) an AndroidForums thread discussing the P4G screen. Spend some time reading that thread for even greater detail about the merits of the Pentile screen.
Granted, it's the CEO of Pentile, so obviously they have a bit of a bias... but she also offers fascinating technical insight behind the technology as well.
I'm very happy with the screen myself, very easy to read in sunlight especially but very bright in general (which i like). The colors were "different" compared to the evo and evo 3d I had prior but after a few hours, I started noticing more color and details in apps that I hadn't ever seen before. I feel it looks much better overall vs the evo and evo 3d. Yes, I do see the checkerboard when the display is off if I look at the right angle but I dont notice it when the screen is on.
This phone has so many pluses, and the screen is one of them to me.
codee said:
I'm very happy with the screen myself, very easy to read in sunlight especially but very bright in general (which i like). The colors were "different" compared to the evo and evo 3d I had prior but after a few hours, I started noticing more color and details in apps that I hadn't ever seen before. I feel it looks much better overall vs the evo and evo 3d. Yes, I do see the checkerboard when the display is off if I look at the right angle but I dont notice it when the screen is on.
This phone has so many pluses, and the screen is one of them to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are seriously making me think that something is wrong with my phone, man. Cuz if what I'm seeing on mine is consistent throughout, there's no way a person can think it looks good. Some of the pictures look like they are in 8-bit. I'm really disappointed.
Fyahstarter said:
You are seriously making me think that something is wrong with my phone, man. Cuz if what I'm seeing on mine is consistent throughout, there's no way a person can think it looks good. Some of the pictures look like they are in 8-bit. I'm really disappointed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, i'd maybe compare it to the store display if possible because I think mine looks excellent, and the display in my local stores looks really good too. I usually keep my display cranked up pretty high, and it has much better blacks and white levels then i ever had on my evo or evo 3d.
codee said:
Yeah, i'd maybe compare it to the store display if possible because I think mine looks excellent, and the display in my local stores looks really good too. I usually keep my display cranked up pretty high, and it has much better blacks and white levels then i ever had on my evo or evo 3d.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I played some Netflix movies and they looked really bad to a point where I'm like Motorola couldn't have released a multi-media phone with such piss poor video and picture quality. I'm taking back the phone tomorrow to switch it out.
Here's another question. I put in my sdcard from my EVO and none of the pictures fill the screen. I noticed the same thing on the carousel view in the FB integration. The pictures don't fill the screen. Any ideas?
Fyahstarter said:
Here's another question. I put in my sdcard from my EVO and none of the pictures fill the screen. I noticed the same thing on the carousel view in the FB integration. The pictures don't fill the screen. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does it look if you use a different Gallery app like QuickPic?
I, for one like the screen. There is no "burn in" like the galaxy s phones and the Nexus S. I can see the pixel separation, but it doesn't bother me a bit. Maybe you guys need to quit making out with your screens.
I'm not looking for fantastic. I'm coming from the EVO which, even though washed out compared to a Super Amoled, looked fine to me. The problem appears that in areas of high contrast or in shadows, the blacks are too black so picture actually looks blotchy. Believe me when I tell you I'm not the overly picky type. But image quality is definitely a step down compared to my Evo.
Beknatok said:
Jump over here and do some reading:
http://pentileblog.com/
Granted, it's the CEO of Pentile, so obviously they have a bit of a bias... but she also offers fascinating technical insight behind the technology as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice explanation of PenTile. I also have no issues with the display and think it is quite good in comparison to my E4G. I wonder if the different perceptions are due to astigmatism. Last year I got lens implants that corrected most of my astigmatism (some remaining, but not much). Maybe people with a lot of uncorrected astigmatism are more sensitive to the display? Maybe it's the opposite and astigmatism makes the effect harder to see and I have just enough astigmatism left to make it not noticeable?
I thought the display was fine, and while I could see the screen door effect, only really noticed it while looking for it.
Then I installed a game where blue was a predominant color used in the background, Wisp Lite, currently featured on the Android Market. Anyone would immediately notice the screen door effect on the background, it was so obvious.
Mulling if this matters enough for me to consider returning it.
The colors looked washed out. hey, I just got my z ultra from singapore and everythin seems too bright and washed out.
I'm on version .510
Fuzalert2k said:
The colors looked washed out. hey, I just got my z ultra from singapore and everythin seems too bright and washed out.
I'm on version .510
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
defected unit.
Yeah, the screen definitely doesn't look washed out on a properly working unit.
Must be a lemon.
Sent from my C6802 using Tapatalk 4
The Ultra's screen is nothing short of breathtaking, you've got a defective unit.
Sent from my Xperia Z Ultra using Tapatalk 4
Turn off that optimised backlight under display then you'll see how good the screen can be!
You know, I went back and forth numerous times between having the optimized backlight off and on, and I could never tell any difference. I'm convinced it's the placebo effect making people think they see a difference.
If you're coming from Samsung, then you will see a difference, this screen has much more natural colours and it takes a little getting used to.
Sent from my C6833 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------
AntiLazarus said:
You know, I went back and forth numerous times between having the optimized backlight off and on, and I could never tell any difference. I'm convinced it's the placebo effect making people think they see a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you, no difference at all on my unit.
Sent from my C6833 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
SpyderTracks said:
If you're coming from Samsung, then you will see a difference, this screen has much more natural colours and it takes a little getting used to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you 100%, I am from Samsung Note2 and the screen does look a bit dull especially with white backgrounds in SMS app or others.
One strange thing that the center "horizontal" area seems to be perfect white while the top and bottom of the screen have a brown / yellowish shade to it. This has been irritating me and I am trying to ignore it
I got mine just last night and absolutely love it other than this small issue with the screen. I wonder if I need to take it back to Sony CS for a comparison with another set?
Fuzalert2k said:
The colors looked washed out. hey, I just got my z ultra from singapore and everythin seems too bright and washed out.
I'm on version .510
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Was comparing iPhone 5 and samsung note 2 with z ultra. The z ultra seems pale in colors and doesn't have good contrast/black.
Fuzalert2k said:
The colors looked washed out. hey, I just got my z ultra from singapore and everythin seems too bright and washed out.
I'm on version .510
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after some comparison
I found that it's washed out indeed,, but ONLY IN GOOGLE PLAY
(compare the green button "apps" to some green app icon on home(exp Line) back and forth,,, it's really easy to see that the green in Google Play are washed out)
I dont know what kind of tweak sony done to google apps but after some test and comparison,,, it seems to be the case
anyone agree?
---------- Post added at 05:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 AM ----------
ok,,,,after messing around with it now i found not not only Google Play is washed out
other google apps are also washed out like gmail and such,,,,,,
Now that you mention it, the Gmail app on mine does seem to be a little...I don't know that I'd say "washed out," but for sure the text looks less contrasty. Images don't seem to be affected, though, and the display is brilliant everywhere else.
AntiLazarus said:
Now that you mention it, the Gmail app on mine does seem to be a little...I don't know that I'd say "washed out," but for sure the text looks less contrasty. Images don't seem to be affected, though, and the display is brilliant everywhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
after some further comparison between the same pic file displayed on different displays(including my desktop;screenshot'ed the google play interface on different phones and compared it on my desktop;etc)
i found, at least this time - -! , i think rather than the tweak by sony,, it's actually that our eyes got too accustomized to the over saturated green on samsung AMOLED devices,,, the green of google play/gmail/etc compared to samsung device did look washed out,, but thats becasue that's the accurate color google initially intended,,
Thing is, I've never owned an AMOLED phone. :/ Anyway, it's the text on mine, not images.
AntiLazarus said:
Thing is, I've never owned an AMOLED phone. :/ Anyway, it's the text on mine, not images.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id admit im obssessed with this problem and till now done many comparison,,
(detailed in the thread i made: ,,,http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2472114)
and got to the conclusion,,the screen is indeed wased out , and colors are "light"/less vibrant,, but it wasnt due to defect but rather intended by sony
Just some food for thought.
I am sure you all realise that you are trying to compare different types of screen technology? Let me give an example to help perhaps?
Plasma V LCD or LCD-LED TV's. What produces 'the best' picture? Non of them, they are different. Since the LCD TV has been introduced it was supposed to be the demise of the 'old plasma' screens. Not the case at all and many top brands still make plasma screens that are superior in some aspects to the newer LCD- LCD-LED group.
I am afraid to write that it will come down to choice and preference. I went from Samsung screens to Sony and back to Samsung in terms of phone. I didn't want to as I have a preference for the type of screen Sony produces. I shall be keeping my Xperia 10.1 tablet as the screen just amazes me. The screen on the Note 3 that I now own is back to these over saturated colours and odd definition and contrast. No choice for me as the Ultra is just too big so I had to go back to Samsung but....
Its rather folly to even try and compare an apple with an orange just the same with different screen technology. One can purchase a lemon in any brand. I think to write that the ultra screen looks "washed out" is difficult as it could be a lemon. In general the new screens coming from Sony are very vibrant and more importantly realistic in colour reproduction and tone.
Choice will be ones buying strategy. Manufacturers have been trying to kill of Plasma screens for years but cant as they have something other screen don't.
Regards
I have to disagree. Those tech are replacing older ones cause they obviously produces more correct representation of colours and faster refresh rates. Except plasma which still produces one of the est colour, but unfortunately cant be made in higher resolution because of its inherent limitation. I have to say my preference has always been about correctness. I was hoping someone would say its a defective unit and the good unit would produce display similar to iphone or samsung. But i guess my upgrade have to wait until i am aure the display is at least as good as the IPS-LCD which iphone uses.
Ryland Johnson said:
Just some food for thought.
I am sure you all realise that you are trying to compare different types of screen technology? Let me give an example to help perhaps?
Plasma V LCD or LCD-LED TV's. What produces 'the best' picture? Non of them, they are different. Since the LCD TV has been introduced it was supposed to be the demise of the 'old plasma' screens. Not the case at all and many top brands still make plasma screens that are superior in some aspects to the newer LCD- LCD-LED group.
I am afraid to write that it will come down to choice and preference. I went from Samsung screens to Sony and back to Samsung in terms of phone. I didn't want to as I have a preference for the type of screen Sony produces. I shall be keeping my Xperia 10.1 tablet as the screen just amazes me. The screen on the Note 3 that I now own is back to these over saturated colours and odd definition and contrast. No choice for me as the Ultra is just too big so I had to go back to Samsung but....
Its rather folly to even try and compare an apple with an orange just the same with different screen technology. One can purchase a lemon in any brand. I think to write that the ultra screen looks "washed out" is difficult as it could be a lemon. In general the new screens coming from Sony are very vibrant and more importantly realistic in colour reproduction and tone.
Choice will be ones buying strategy. Manufacturers have been trying to kill of Plasma screens for years but cant as they have something other screen don't.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guzprom said:
I have to disagree. Those tech are replacing older ones cause they obviously produces more correct representation of colours and faster refresh rates. Except plasma which still produces one of the est colour, but unfortunately cant be made in higher resolution because of its inherent limitation. I have to say my preference has always been about correctness. I was hoping someone would say its a defective unit and the good unit would produce display similar to iphone or samsung. But i guess my upgrade have to wait until i am aure the display is at least as good as the IPS-LCD which iphone uses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You begin by disagreeing then write exactly what I have written
No problem.:highfive:
I have to say, I never had an AMOLED device, but I love the colors of the XZU.
It doesn't look washed out at all, the colors are indeed a lot like the colors on my IPS PC-monitors in color-boost modus (which means the colors are even more colorful than they are normally).
There are devices where the colors look washed out, e.g. the Nexus 4 and 7, but definitely not on the XZU.
If you think the colors are looking washed out you either got a defective unit or you have a very strange impression of what colors should look like.
Ryland Johnson said:
You begin by disagreeing then write exactly what I have written
No problem.:highfive:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, i guess. Lol.
Lets just say if the display unit I was comparing was 80pc like an iphone in color and depth of black. Or like a plasma tv. I would have bought it already. Ill wait and see for now.. cheers
Check this out, I'm not saying its a cure all but it helps
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Under what settings?
leyvatron said:
Under what settings?
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Accessibility
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mrwinkle13 said:
Accessibility
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You can manually adjust it. [emoji1] Nice find.
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leyvatron said:
You can manually adjust it. [emoji1] Nice find.
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Click to collapse
Glad you like
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mrwinkle13 said:
Check this out, I'm not saying its a cure all but it helps
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Click to collapse
Thanks. But where do we put it to get close to 6500k ±500. I say ± 500 because some like a slightly cooler screen and some prefer it warmer, and warmer is actually more natural and accurate. I've played around with it a few minutes and the 9000K is just too cool. Comfort view on medium without using this is closest I've gotten to a desired (actually more desirable, but still not ideal) color temp. Every body chime in where they're putting the circle cursor that they gives close to 6500k or thereabouts.
For those who don't know what comfort view is
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OK. Still playing with it but I think I have it close. With comfort view OFF, the screen was way too cool still. I was running medium comfort view already. I turned off comfort view and still couldn't find a happy place. So I turned it back on. I think some people will like it on medium if you like it a little cooler, and out it on high if you want it a little warmer and try it where I put my green circle at. YMMV though because who knows if LG sourced the same supplier, much less type of screen since this screen calibrated to crap for a very very flagship price. Let me know and see what you guys come up with.
Still hurts my eyes. I'm so used to my note4 still
Hmm.. Am I the only one who likes comfort view off? I'm coming from the note 7v and I still like it off. Why again do people want less blue? I find my screen whites to be really white with comfort view off. Why is that a bad thing? Lol
@rbiter said:
OK. Still playing with it but I think I have it close. With comfort view OFF, the screen was way too cool still. I was running medium comfort view already. I turned off comfort view and still couldn't find a happy place. So I turned it back on. I think some people will like it on medium if you like it a little cooler, and out it on high if you want it a little warmer and try it where I put my green circle at. YMMV though because who knows if LG sourced the same supplier, much less type of screen since this screen calibrated to crap for a very very flagship price. Let me know and see what you guys come up with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used your pic as a guide and got it to a point I'm comfortable with
koppee1 said:
Hmm.. Am I the only one who likes comfort view off? I'm coming from the note 7v and I still like it off. Why again do people want less blue? I find my screen whites to be really white with comfort view off. Why is that a bad thing? Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because your colors and gamma are fubar'ed really bad. You want some semblance of color accuracy for the pictures you take. They look horrible and i mean absolutely horrid looking at the pics taken on the phone. You have to transfer them to a more accurate display to see what you have. There are other more important reasons, but they are rare. And there are less important reasons that I don't care to mention. And as is, the kelvin being so high will probably mess with your sleep patterns. Before and during. And then you have the problem of you and others seeing the same images but you might look like a fool when discussing the color of something. And then there is the fact, you should expect a somewhat decently calibrated display, especially from a company that specializes in displays. Samsung, lg and sharp should have calibrated displays ootb. They should also off some kind of CMS or at least presets to cater to people like you who don't expect a quality display and shrug it off as nothing and desirable. You are in the minority by far. Even apple who has nothing to with manufacturing displays pays a slight premium to have their displays calibrated before the phone is sold. At the very least we should be getting displays in the 6-7000k range which is ±500K from 6504K and a gamma of ±.2-.3 from 2.2. also, it would be nice to get a LCD than can display blacks lower than .02 luminance with lower brightness and less than .030 with higher or max brightness but that last part is more wishful thinking and reality dictates that around .04±.005 is more reasonable to expect. I wonder if some manufacturers goes out on a limb and makes a FALD display. It's feasible but would probably add too much thickness to a phone even if 1cm thick phones were the norm.
As an aside, I wish more phones were about 1cm thickness to accommodate bigger batteries, designs with passive cooling in mind like some recent Samsung flagships, better drop handling and quality control because everything is so crammed sometimes engineering doesn't take into consideration how everything will act in the real world in consumer hands. Thicker phones would give engineers more wiggle room to make better phones with bigger batteries and probably more innovation would come out instead of being held back or dropped altogether. I think many consumers have any idea the implications and far reaching depths of the tango phone. It is stuff like that that will make navigating easier among other things. And when holograms are in everybody's house tango phones will surely be a contributing factor into the foundation of the quality of those holograms. For now some of the data will probably be repurposed for VR.
@rbiter said:
Because your colors and gamma are fubar'ed really bad. You want some semblance of color accuracy for the pictures you take. They look horrible and i mean absolutely horrid looking at the pics taken on the phone. You have to transfer them to a more accurate display to see what you have. There are other more important reasons, but they are rare. And there are less important reasons that I don't care to mention. And as is, the kelvin being so high will probably mess with your sleep patterns. Before and during. And then you have the problem of you and others seeing the same images but you might look like a fool when discussing the color of something. And then there is the fact, you should expect a somewhat decently calibrated display, especially from a company that specializes in displays. Samsung, lg and sharp should have calibrated displays ootb. They should also off some kind of CMS or at least presets to cater to people like you who don't expect a quality display and shrug it off as nothing and desirable. You are in the minority by far. Even apple who has nothing to with manufacturing displays pays a slight premium to have their displays calibrated before the phone is sold. At the very least we should be getting displays in the 6-7000k range which is �±500K from 6504K and a gamma of �±.2-.3 from 2.2. also, it would be nice to get a LCD than can display blacks lower than .02 luminance with lower brightness and less than .030 with higher or max brightness but that last part is more wishful thinking and reality dictates that around .04�±.005 is more reasonable to expect. I wonder if some manufacturers goes out on a limb and makes a FALD display. It's feasible but would probably add too much thickness to a phone even if 1cm thick phones were the norm.
As an aside, I wish more phones were about 1cm thickness to accommodate bigger batteries, designs with passive cooling in mind like some recent Samsung flagships, better drop handling and quality control because everything is so crammed sometimes engineering doesn't take into consideration how everything will act in the real world in consumer hands. Thicker phones would give engineers more wiggle room to make better phones with bigger batteries and probably more innovation would come out instead of being held back or dropped altogether. I think many consumers have any idea the implications and far reaching depths of the tango phone. It is stuff like that that will make navigating easier among other things. And when holograms are in everybody's house tango phones will surely be a contributing factor into the foundation of the quality of those holograms. For now some of the data will probably be repurposed for VR.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing to bear in mind...
Just about no one IRL owns a color accurate display. Further just because they do in no way means their OS properly utilizes it. Windows of all flavors has for years has been renowned for this. Web browsers also almost all fail at color management too.
People live to squawk about accurate colors, tbh despite their best efforts, only photogs really ever pull it off whereas lay consumers almost never do.
Who on XDA owns a colorimeter? I rest my case.
Skripka said:
Thing to bear in mind...
Just about no one IRL owns a color accurate display. Further just because they do in no way means their OS properly utilizes it. Windows of all flavors has for years has been renowned for this. Web browsers also almost all fail at color management too.
People live to squawk about accurate colors, tbh despite their best efforts, only photogs really ever pull it off whereas lay consumers almost never do.
Who on XDA owns a colorimeter? I rest my case.
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Click to collapse
Lol. Wrong. Samsung TVs are known for their color accuracy ootb. I calibrated my laptop display. Haven't bothered calibrating my Samsung JS9500 with tools and just used a disk because it only needed minor adjustment.
Photographers aren't the only one. Studios that make movies use calibrated displays. Professional calibrators use calibrated, and some even bring smaller monitors to show their customers what it will look like since the average consumer doesn't know how much it will affect what they're used to and the calibrator wants the customer to know what they're getting and not have to deal with angry customers who have no clue. And as I mentioned, I left some leniency on the color temp 6504K ±500 should suffice. The pics I've taken on my v20 look like garbage until I made the adjustments. Wouldn't you expect some reasonable color accuracy from your phone display? Especially phones that cost $600+? I definitely expect it from the v20 being an $800 phone. For those that night the pixel, pixel xl and 256GB iphone should expect no less than very very minor deviations. And colorimiters and spectrometers aren't too expensive for decent brands and can get a lot of noise as tv ages or hook up their friends. Light meters otoh can get expensive quick. The cheap ones aren't worth using on an amoled or FALD display. A cheap one would work with most smartphone displays just fine unless you're measuring below .02 I believe.
Is too much too ask for a closely calibrsted display? I mean geez. Smartphone OEM's are already talking about HDR and HDR+ on these small displays. Why jump ahead if you can't get the basics good enough? And it's also amusing some Samsung fanboys were bragging their displays could go over 1000nits. It is very possible that mightve had something to do with the phones combusting. That is a very high draw on the battery and the power circuits and power management. 1000nits would kill your OLED lifespan much more quickly, the longevity of your SEALED battery shortened and could easily bulge the battery sooner than later drawing that much current for a display smaller than 6".
Anyways, I think consumers should expect no less than a 6504K display ±500 and a gamma of 2.2 or close to it. On flagship phones at least. The display used on the v20 should be in less than $400 phone. The blacks even suck. Contrast is decent though but I'm guessing that is because of the 9000K temperature where whites look whiter but in reality they are bluer.
@rbiter said:
Lol. Wrong. Samsung TVs are known for their color accuracy ootb. I calibrated my laptop display. Haven't bothered calibrating my Samsung JS9500 with tools and just used a disk because it only needed minor adjustment.
Photographers aren't the only one. Studios that make movies use calibrated displays. Professional calibrators use calibrated, and some even bring smaller monitors to show their customers what it will look like since the average consumer doesn't know how much it will affect what they're used to and the calibrator wants the customer to know what they're getting and not have to deal with angry customers who have no clue. And as I mentioned, I left some leniency on the color temp 6504K ±500 should suffice. The pics I've taken on my v20 look like garbage until I made the adjustments. Wouldn't you expect some reasonable color accuracy from your phone display? Especially phones that cost $600+? I definitely expect it from the v20 being an $800 phone. For those that night the pixel, pixel xl and 256GB iphone should expect no less than very very minor deviations. And colorimiters and spectrometers aren't too expensive for decent brands and can get a lot of noise as tv ages or hook up their friends. Light meters otoh can get expensive quick. The cheap ones aren't worth using on an amoled or FALD display. A cheap one would work with most smartphone displays just fine unless you're measuring below .02 I believe.
Is too much too ask for a closely calibrsted display? I mean geez. Smartphone OEM's are already talking about HDR and HDR+ on these small displays. Why jump ahead if you can't get the basics good enough? And it's also amusing some Samsung fanboys were bragging their displays could go over 1000nits. It is very possible that mightve had something to do with the phones combusting. That is a very high draw on the battery and the power circuits and power management. 1000nits would kill your OLED lifespan much more quickly, the longevity of your SEALED battery shortened and could easily bulge the battery sooner than later drawing that much current for a display smaller than 6".
Anyways, I think consumers should expect no less than a 6504K display ±500 and a gamma of 2.2 or close to it. On flagship phones at least. The display used on the v20 should be in less than $400 phone. The blacks even suck. Contrast is decent though but I'm guessing that is because of the 9000K temperature where whites look whiter but in reality they are bluer.
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D65 is not the be all end all of accuracy. Stop harping like it is. It is one and only one aspect. You can have a panel with good D65 that still does not reproduce accurate colors. And even on an accurate panels, color output varies across it.
You want to talk accuracy you need to be addressing issues like sRGB versus ARGB, and also presently the LCD panel makers are hoping to force the rec.2020 colorspace (which has a huge range of greens), in order to con you the consumer into replacing your otherwise good monitor. You also need to be addressing not just the panels output but also the colorspace of the content-which is why OS matters-because Windows as stated fails supremely at managing color spaces. Hell most content isn't even managed right to sRGB that has been around for 20+ years as an ISO standard....For a brief while the panel makers were pushing ARGB and "vivid" colors....now with UHD broadcast content they want to force a universe where even sRGB hasn't caught on into rec.2020
Thanks for admitting you don't have a colorimeter. As much as you harp on color accuracy, you only talk the talk and only talk the talk about D65. You have no idea what your colors actually are or if they are accurate be they on your TV or your computer monitor or your phone. Sorry. Thems the harsh facts. Photogs are really the only ones who know about this stuff and walk the walk, all other consumers harp on it--but really they're all talk and no cattle IRL.
Well aware of other standards. But is asking for D65 and CMS too much. No. This screen is wack and as mentioned should expect better from a display manufacturer and a flagship phone. Well aware of the other standards tr here trying to push and many OEMs haven't even got the current ones right. If we have passive attitude like yours do you think it will ever be fixed? And yes, photographers are probably the most prominent activists of color accuracy so I'm quite sure they want us to see it on a reasonably somewhat accurate display. We are in the 21st century far from black and white and many years of innovation and improving. I don't think it is much to ask for this especially when they're outsourcing the labor to save pennies.
@rbiter said:
Well aware of other standards. But is asking for D65 and CMS too much. No. This screen is wack and as mentioned should expect better from a display manufacturer and a flagship phone. Well aware of the other standards tr here trying to push and many OEMs haven't even got the current ones right. If we have passive attitude like yours do you think it will ever be fixed? And yes, photographers are probably the most prominent activists of color accuracy so I'm quite sure they want us to see it on a reasonably somewhat accurate display. We are in the 21st century far from black and white and many years of innovation and improving. I don't think it is much to ask for this especially when they're outsourcing the labor to save pennies.
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Click to collapse
Capitalism is fundamentally a race to the bottom dollar and highest margin. Making an outstanding product gets in the way. Given how long it has taken for even top shelf professional ridiculously expensive LCD displays to get as good as CRTs like FW900 were 20 years ago...you'll probably be waiting a while.
Come to think of it, does Android as a platform even support CMS? And does Google bake it into the source they send OEMs? And then do any apps actually use it? I'd guess no, no, and no... But but I haven't checked.
Well that was all very informative. Thank you.
All that said, can any of you extremely intelligent experts tell us simple minded ones how that helps to calibrate V20 screen colors?
Skripka said:
Capitalism is fundamentally a race to the bottom dollar and highest margin. Making an outstanding product gets in the way. Given how long it has taken for even top shelf professional ridiculously expensive LCD displays to get as good as CRTs like FW900 were 20 years ago...you'll probably be waiting a while.
Come to think of it, does Android as a platform even support CMS? And does Google bake it into the source they send OEMs? And then do any apps actually use it? I'd guess no, no, and no... But but I haven't checked.
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure android doesn't support CMS baked in. The screens get calibrated at factory to my knowledge. Or not calibrated. Samsung might support CMS somewhere deep in the firmware but as mentioned before they're usually calibrated pretty well ootb and have 3-4 options for modes. One of the modes even caters to people that like cooler screens. Just wishing that LG had implemented something like this in the V20 and not have to use the half baked workaround to get decent color accuracy. Took some pictures of the sunset yesterday with incoming rain clouds and was much happier with what I am using now than previously. And from what I've read, it costs approximately $1-3 USD to calibrate smartphone displays if your phone is manufactured and/or assembled in China. Cuts into profit yes, but I think at least flagships, especially the top tiered camera ones should get it. What's the use of a good camera if the pictures look like crap on the display. Makes editing it to make it more appealing or artistic harder or less desirable, on the smartphone at least in this social media age. I just want my nephew pictures and scenery pictures to look good when I look at them right away. I dont think that is too much to ask for, profits be damned.
---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------
BroJack said:
Well that was all very informative. Thank you.
All that said, can any of you extremely intelligent experts tell us simple minded ones how that helps to calibrate V20 screen colors?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a thread to help those who want a warmer or more accurate screen. I made a thread about using comfort view to help. The op found a setting in accessibility where you can manually change color profiles or manually change how colors are presented. My picture above was just a starting point for those who decide to use this where I found my screen to be more desireable, easy on the eyes and much closer to color accuracy. Might have to use the xrite on this screen and see if it helps. I am not a pro and between the software and having to use a guide each time is difficult. Just use that green circle, if that is the right color (lol), to get a base line of what you want your screen to look like. You can get a little more punch, cooler, warmer or just off the charts inaccurate colors.
@rbiter said:
I'm pretty sure android doesn't support CMS baked in. The screens get calibrated at factory to my knowledge. Or not calibrated. Samsung might support CMS somewhere deep in the firmware but as mentioned before they're usually calibrated pretty well ootb and have 3-4 options for modes. One of the modes even caters to people that like cooler screens. Just wishing that LG had implemented something like this in the V20 and not have to use the half baked workaround to get decent color accuracy. Took some pictures of the sunset yesterday with incoming rain clouds and was much happier with what I am using now than previously. And from what I've read, it costs approximately $1-3 USD to calibrate smartphone displays if your phone is manufactured and/or assembled in China. Cuts into profit yes, but I think at least flagships, especially the top tiered camera ones should get it. What's the use of a good camera if the pictures look like crap on the display. Makes editing it to make it more appealing or artistic harder or less desirable, on the smartphone at least in this social media age. I just want my nephew pictures and scenery pictures to look good when I look at them right away. I dont think that is too much to ask for, profits be damned.
---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 AM ----------
Just a thread to help those who want a warmer or more accurate screen. I made a thread about using comfort view to help. The op found a setting in accessibility where you can manually change color profiles or manually change how colors are presented. My picture above was just a starting point for those who decide to use this where I found my screen to be more desireable, easy on the eyes and much closer to color accuracy. Might have to use the xrite on this screen and see if it helps. I am not a pro and between the software and having to use a guide each time is difficult. Just use that green circle, if that is the right color (lol), to get a base line of what you want your screen to look like. You can get a little more punch, cooler, warmer or just off the charts inaccurate colors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From some cursory reading....with the much maligned G5 LG actually targeted rec.2020 (alias DCI-P3) colorspace.
So far I haven't found any reference to what colorspace the v20's panel was intended to fit. Nor if anyone has tried measuring the screen in anything other than sRGB.Given that they were actually able to ship a rec2020 panel in the previous flagship....their very hot D65 value for v20 is more strange. I mention it as the rec2020 space is MUCH more deep in the blue/green department. Just a hairbrained theory, I don't own a colorimeter to check-but mnaybe the hot screen on v20 comes from calibrating more for rec.2020 as opposed to sRGB/ARGB.
It's been floating around for a bit. Compared to the note 8 it looks absolutely horrible. Really bad. Was thinking about getting this phone till I saw this!!
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/lg-v30-hands-on-lgs-oled-displays-still-have-quality-issues/
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nano303 said:
It's been floating around for a bit. Compared to the note 8 it looks absolutely horrible. Really bad. Was thinking about getting this phone till I saw this!!
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/lg-v30-hands-on-lgs-oled-displays-still-have-quality-issues/
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Hopefully just pre-production issues.
LG actually makes the best OLED panels for TVs that even Sony uses for their TVs. So, there's no reason there should be any quality issues, except LG Display is a "separate" company from the LG company that makes cell phones. However, Google gave them almost $1 billion to get another line up and running to help out with the 2017 Pixel XL. Google used Samsung displays last year, but will be using LG displays this year and LG will be making the 2017 Pixel XL. So, if you are worried, wait a few months until the Pixels especially are in production before buying an LG V30. Because Google will make them straighten out any problems.
FYI, in the reader comments, someone mentioned another reviewer PRAISED the LG V30 display as being excellent. So, the Ars Technica guy may have just gotten a lemon or again, just pre-production issues.
It's one pre production unit. Can't really pass judgement on this yet.
milan187 said:
It's one pre production unit. Can't really pass judgement on this yet.
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Correct, a sample of one. I don't stare at black screens so uneven lighting doesn't bother me in actual use. Most people have praised the screen. So, as long as it looks good when it actually displaying images, I will be happy.
I know other don't feel the same.
It's disturbing.
There are at least two reviews that note banding and screen uniformity issues. There will be more. This issue is cause by the P-OLED manufacturing process LG employs. Screen colors are vibrant and gorgeous ... that is, until you start reducing the LED color input (or dimming the screen). Then the problems start showing up. Few will notice due to the high QHD+ screen resolution and keeping a normal screen brightness.
Side by side comparison to a Note 8 has proven this issue given that the V30 has a higher pixel density.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt the production units will be any different.
The Simple said:
It's disturbing.
There are at least two reviews that note banding and screen uniformity issues. There will be more. This issue is cause by the P-OLED manufacturing process LG employs. Screen colors are vibrant and gorgeous ... that is, until you start reducing the LED color input (or dimming the screen). Then the problems start showing up. Few will notice due to the high QHD+ screen resolution and keeping a normal screen brightness.
Side by side comparison to a Note 8 has proven this issue given that the V30 has a higher pixel density.
I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt the production units will be any different.
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No,it's not disturbing. Most reviewers say it's fantastic. You will find a couple of reviewers will always give critical reviews no matter what.
http://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/artic...erb-photos-and-gorgeous-display-top-hard-beat
This switch in display tech, along with further refinement of the already slim bezels of the G6, makes the V30’s screen hands down the best LG smartphone screen ever. All colours look lush and gorgeous, especially the blacks and red, and the display and glass back both curve towards the metal frame for that symmetrical “glass sandwich” look that Samsung pioneered.
The V30 ticks just about every smartphone box, including a whole bunch that most people never asked for. It has a large, gorgeous OLED display with slim bezels, cameras that excel in low light situations and the newest mobile processor. It is IP68 water-resistant, comes with hi-fi audio capabilities and can be charged wirelessly.
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http://www.t3.com/reviews/lg-v30-review
Okay, the next thing you'll notice is that brilliant 6-inch screen. LG has switched to using OLED panels, and the result is fantastic
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It's not even 50/50. I can find you 10 positive reviews for every negative one.
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 PM ----------
The Simple said:
Few will notice due to the high QHD+ screen resolution and keeping a normal screen brightness.
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Click to collapse
Yes, my light bulbs tend to turn dark when I turn them off.
These reviewers are using pre-production models, so actual retail won't be any worse and will probably be better. And even with that caveat, it's about 10/1 rave reviews.
Ok...Find me a pre-review that compares the V30's screen quality directly to another phone's screen quality. You'll find a lot of Note 8 and G6 reviews reference the V30's change to OLED but no direct OLED quality comparison.
Secondly, have you owned any P-OLED screen phones before? I have. Still have em. Their screens get better with each iteration but that banding (and graininess) is still there. OG G Flex - saturated screen bad, grainy 720p. G Flex 2 - Crispy saturated OLED colors noticeable banding, less grain on 1080p. V30 looks great brightness all the way up but....it's 1440p right?
I know the hope is real, but this is a hardware issue. Much harder to figure out than a camera software fix.
Think about this: When the V10 and V20 pre-review units went out, LG never revised their hardware - only the software was updated.
....Like I said I hope I'm wrong.
The Simple said:
Ok...Find me a pre-review that compares the V30's screen quality directly to another phone's screen quality. You'll find a lot of Note 8 and G6 reviews reference the V30's change to OLED but no direct OLED quality comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found plenty comparing LG to Samsung OLED quality. Here's three below.
Then "worst" review is first... The only quibble mentioned on the first review (in one pre production unit) was "low light" issues, not banding nor uniformity. And the first reviewer even mentions LG"s crappy P-OLED efforts years ago and says that's not evident on this LG V30. He praises the current phone display as does the 2nd reviewer and third -- and ALL compare to Samsung's OLEDs, like the S7, S8, S8+.
1) LG V30 initial review: The no-BS flagship
I'm happy to report that the company has made a huge amount of progress over the past two years, to the point where V30's screen is almost as good as Samsung's SuperAMOLED. That sounds like faint praise, but I'm actually more than satisfied with what LG has brought to the table here. It's not Galaxy S8 good, but it's surprisingly close, and that's an achievement in itself.
Samsung is still the king of smartphone displays, there's no doubt about that. But LG's latest screen, at Quad HD+ resolution, looks fantastic and punchy, and unlike some of those older P-OLED panels, is clear enough to use outdoors in bright daylight.
If anything, this display's major weakness is in low light. It has an unfortunate tendency to crush shadow details at lower brightness levels, to the point where dark areas become illegible — and that's not great if you're watching Netflix by candlelight, or trying to judge exposure in a low-light photo. This is a disappointing holdover from older OLED efforts, and it's easily fixed in software by simply raising the floor for brightness, but that's not exactly ideal.
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The display, despite some low-light issues, is a step beyond any previous LG phone in terms of quality and daylight legibility. The size is near perfect for me, providing an expansive display in a more ergonomic handset than Samsung can currently offer.
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The V30's going to have its work cut out going up against the Note 8s and Pixels and iPhones of the world when it launches. But for the moment, it's easily among the best Android phones I've used, and has every chance of being a sleeper hit for late 2017.
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Click to collapse
2) LG's Upcoming V30 May Be Its Best Smartphone Yet
“Is that the new Samsung phone?” I’ve been asked that several times the past few weeks, as I’ve been testing out LG’s upcoming V30 smartphone. And I get it, as the phone is thin, black-fronted, sleek, large, and has rounded edges with a big screen that covers a massive area. No doubt that at quick glance, the resemblance to what I've seen of the Samsung Galaxy Note8 in photos is close.
And because I regularly use a two-year-old Samsung phone, I’ve noticed that the similarities extend beyond sheer looks. For instance, the V30 has a vibrant screen. It’s the best one I’ve seen on an LG phone yet. Colors are intense while blacks are pitch dark. Photos truly pop -- something that I find beautiful in all of the latest Samsung models but lacking in recent LG phones. In this case, LG attributes that radiance to “QHD+ resolution” plus a 6-inch OLED display. Apparently, self-lighting pixels help generate infinite contrast. Sparing you the tech jargon, it’s just a terrific display that can be adjusted to be very bright -- although it doesn’t quite max out as bright as the display on my Samsung.
This makes looking at photos and videos a pleasure.
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3) LG V30 hands-on: Believe the hype
LG is back in the game
LG has talked a lot about the improvement in image quality as it switches from LCD to OLED in the V30. For me, the six-inch, Quad HD+ display (2880 x 1440) is one of the handset’s best elements. The colors look bright and vivid, almost popping off the screen – watching HDR YouTube content on it is breathtaking.
I’ve found the contrast between black and white makes reading text so good that I’m now using the V30 instead of my iPad Air 2 to peruse web articles. The phone's screen trounces my Galaxy S7 Edge, and while I only compared the two briefly, I also preferred it to the S8+.
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And after using it for about a week, I still got that “wow” feeling every time the gorgeous display came to life.
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So, there's three specific comparisons to Samsung, talking specifically about the display and how GREAT it is. You want more, I'll give them to you.
Now two more facts...
1) Google PIXEL XL2 will have the same LG OLED display as found in the LG V30.
2) LG Display’s OLEDs Coming on Premium Phone from Huawei, OPPO, Vivo and Xiaomi
https://www.gizmochina.com/2017/09/...coming-premium-phone-huawei-oppo-vivo-xiaomi/
Well, production unit issues are backing up my previous statements.
https://www.androidheadlines.com/20...screen-exhibiting-color-imbalance-issues.html
"According to a recent report from South Korea, LG customers who have had the opportunity to purchase the LG V30 after its September 21 debut in the country have started raising complaints in regards to the quality of the display. Apparently, the issue lies in the P-OLED panel’s inability to distribute colors and brightness evenly across the entire surface, resulting in an undesirable effect similar to the so-called “light bleeding” usually exhibited by backlit LCD panels."
Things to Keep In Mind:
1. The screen is still beautiful and vivid despite this issue
2. LG is aware, and price will come in lower (will continue to go down slightly as all units will have this issue)
3. Screen will not take away all the features packed into the phone
4. Consumers will have to decide between light uniformity issues vs. the better battery life and weight advantages the P-OLED screen brings.
The Simple said:
Well, production unit issues are backing up my previous statements.
https://www.androidheadlines.com/20...screen-exhibiting-color-imbalance-issues.html
"According to a recent report from South Korea, LG customers who have had the opportunity to purchase the LG V30 after its September 21 debut in the country have started raising complaints in regards to the quality of the display. Apparently, the issue lies in the P-OLED panel’s inability to distribute colors and brightness evenly across the entire surface, resulting in an undesirable effect similar to the so-called “light bleeding” usually exhibited by backlit LCD panels."
Things to Keep In Mind:
1. The screen is still beautiful and vivid despite this issue
2. LG is aware, and price will come in lower (will continue to go down slightly as all units will have this issue)
3. Screen will not take away all the features packed into the phone
4. Consumers will have to decide between light uniformity issues vs. the better battery life and weight advantages the P-OLED screen brings.
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I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Google is also using LG OLED for the Pixel 2 XL, so they're satisfied with the quality.
As are all the reviewers I quoted, directly comparing to Samsung AMOLED.
ChazzMatt said:
I'm taking it with a grain of salt. Google is also using LG OLED for the Pixel 2 XL, so they're satisfied with the quality.
As are all the reviewers I quoted, directly comparing to Samsung AMOLED.
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You make a good point here. If Google is using lg's P-OLED panels. Then they seem to be good enough. I'm taking all this news with a grain of salt. I'll wait till the V30 actually launches in the US and US reviewers start reviewing production models.
Funny thing is that reputable tech reviewers like MKBHD, Pocket now, Mr. Mobile, etc have had nothing but praise and thye all had pre production models. I usually don't trust all these others tech sites as they are biased most of the time or too critical/take it out of proportion.
We'll see how the pixel is received and I can tell you that most of these site won't says anything about the pixel's display.
Just because Google is using them, doesn't make them great. The Nexus 6 had horrible screens.
Actually, the screen on the Nexus 6 was the main appeal. It was gorgeous at the time and it might still be my daily driver if it only had SD.
20degrees said:
Just because Google is using them, doesn't make them great. The Nexus 6 had horrible screens.
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No, not really. The screen on Nexus 6 is beautiful. I have a Nexus 6. It is a tab but warm compared to other screens bit it doesn't take away from the experience at all.
harpin14789 said:
No, not really. The screen on Nexus 6 is beautiful. I have a Nexus 6. It is a tab but warm compared to other screens bit it doesn't take away from the experience at all.
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I had 3 Nexus 6's and all had screen banding on gray backgrounds, just like the Galaxy s2 and S3.
20degrees said:
I had 3 Nexus 6's and all had screen banding on gray backgrounds, just like the Galaxy s2 and S3.
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Dude, looks like you had bad units all three time. My phone doesn't have that problem. And I know a lot of people who don't have the banding problem.
harpin14789 said:
Dude, looks like you had bad units all three time. My phone doesn't have that problem. And I know a lot of people who don't have the banding problem.
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I had one, wife had one, son had one. I swapped mine twice. No way 5 in a row were just a "bad run".
There's threads on here about the Nexus 6 screen issues.
20degrees said:
I had one, wife had one, son had one. I swapped mine twice. No way 5 in a row were just a "bad run".
There's threads on here about the Nexus 6 screen issues.
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I know there are threads about screen issues. I'm saying that I never had these issues. And I know atleast 10 others that don't have the issue. My dad, some devs and couple friends.
20degrees said:
I had 3 Nexus 6's and all had screen banding on gray backgrounds, just like the Galaxy s2 and S3.
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harpin14789 said:
Dude, looks like you had bad units all three time. My phone doesn't have that problem. And I know a lot of people who don't have the banding problem.
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20degrees said:
I had one, wife had one, son had one. I swapped mine twice. No way 5 in a row were just a "bad run".
There's threads on here about the Nexus 6 screen issues.
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but let me tell you a story. I work professionally in broadcast TV, on the technical side. I know about video, and now specifically about HD video. My experience includes not only content creation but QC at the highest levels for global #1 brand.
We have the BEST equipment, the best video displays -- so I know what's good and what's crap. I watch HD video for a living you might say. Back in early 2008, I personally bought my first HD TV, a 60" Sony Bravia 1080p. It was FANTASTIC. In the years since, I've replaced it with another 60" TV, but this story is about that Sony. I did my research, and I bought that TV because it was the best TV for the money at the time. (I couldn't afford Panasonic plasma back then.)
In a forum much like this one, there were a few OCD people who found issues with that specific model Sony Bravia 1080p TVs. Light leakage, banding, blah, blah, blah. One guy took back his TV THREE TIMES to get replacements. Yet, that year, THAT TV model won Best HD TV of the Year award. I kept my TV for 6 years, finally replacing it in 2014 when the technology got so much better. There was NOTHING wrong with that TV.
So, where's the disconnect? I think some people look for flaws that aren't there and find them. Looking through the threads, these same people seem to take back ALL their TVs. I don't know why, and I don't want to disparage them. Maybe it made them feel superior to see flaws that weren't there.
But remember, I know more about video displays than they do, and how good HD video should look (FROM THE SOURCE!). Seeing that TV in my living room looking at the exact same video I had seen at the source back at work, I knew what looked "good" and what didn't. That TV looked fantastic. So, I think there were other issues going on than the actual TV. (Yes, you have to set up all HD TVs -- tweak the settings. You can't just use them out of the box, or you often have cartoonish skin tones. But these people also claimed extensive knowledge in how to set up a TV, so it wasn't that.)
Yes, there will be lemons in a production run of a million units, but those occasional lemons don't tarnish the whole model. That guy that took three back, I'm very skeptical he got three bad TVs in a row and I got the only "perfect" one. You know?
It's my profession, so video is very important to me. But right now, I have to say I take professional reviewers word over "reports" from South Korea. And if Google and many others are using LG OLED displays, and Google is using it for their XL flagship this year, they must have great quality.
harpin14789 said:
I know there are threads about screen issues. I'm saying that I never had these issues. And I know atleast 10 others that don't have the issue. My dad, some devs and couple friends.
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See above. That's not to say there may not be early production issues, but U.S. units will be shipped later so it should be all straightened out. I'm just VERY skeptical of when a few people find "problems" like this. Then when you look at their history, they are the only ones who seem to be plagued with these problems over and over.
You got me all wrong. You can do whatever profession or job you want, doesn't make you an expert because you work with certain equipment. Car salesman work with cars all day long, doesn't make them experts on engines.
I know what I look for because I know what I pay for, I know my first s8+ had red tint on the top right side of the screen. This one don't, I've looked and looked on this one, can't find it. You can't find something that isn't there. But if something's there and you look for it, you'll find it.
Either or, to each their own.
One interesting thing that most people aren't talking about is the fact that Samsung's new displays are actually TUV Rheinland certified for significantly less blue light emission (advertised 42% reduction), while still maintaining optimal colors and picture quality.
To me this is a huge selling point. Most people probably don't care, but blue light is shown to cause significant eye strain, and slow the development of melatonin in the brain., destroying your sleep quality. Just curious on everyone's thoughts about this.
Here's some more info if anyone's interested;
https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/design/
https://news.samsung.com/us/samsung...rp-reduction-blue-light-emission-oled-panels/
Samsung discussed it at their event. Reviewers/Youtubers and tech sites rarely comment on blue light emission. You'll come across more articles on how to kill Bixby! The Honor 8X was certified too, but few speak about it.
Ace42 said:
Samsung discussed it at their event. Reviewers/Youtubers and tech sites rarely comment on blue light emission. You'll come across more articles on how to kill Bixby! The Honor 8X was certified too, but few speak about it.
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Didn't know about the honor 8x. Is that also a Samsung display? I'm curios to know exactly what manufactures use Samsung displays aside from Apple.
hope this doesn't mean the screen will be more yellow. I hate that. loved Samsungs bc of their nicer, bluer screens tbh. my pixel 2 looks nasty compared to my note 9.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
jayochs said:
hope this doesn't mean the screen will be more yellow. I hate that. loved Samsungs bc of their nicer, bluer screens tbh. my pixel 2 looks nasty compared to my note 9.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Blue-light filters usually make things yellow, but I checked the s10/s10+ in a shop and the display is PERFECT, the white levels are incredibly pure and it looks cleaner than my XZ1's IPS which I thought would have unbeatable whites when compared to oleds, that's no longer the case.
I always hated OLED but Samsung found a way to reduce its drawbacks while creating a super accurate panel, if you want to buy one last AMOLED device while waiting for Micro-led to be a thing in mobile, this looks like a very wise choice.
Corv0 said:
Blue-light filters usually make things yellow, but I checked the s10/s10+ in a shop and the display is PERFECT, the white levels are incredibly pure and it looks cleaner than my XZ1's IPS which I thought would have unbeatable whites when compared to oleds, that's no longer the case.
I always hated OLED but Samsung found a way to reduce its drawbacks while creating a super accurate panel, if you want to buy one last AMOLED device while waiting for Micro-led to be a thing in mobile, this looks like a very wise choice.
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Didnt even know about micro led until now. Does look very promising. Hopefully we see in on the S12 if not sooner.
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Didnt even know about micro led until now. Does look very promising. Hopefully we see in on the S12 if not sooner.
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They're still trying to shrink it for the average TV size, I hope it will come soon.
Did some more research on the Honor 8x, it appears they are advertising blue light reduction with their "eye comfort mode" which tweaks the colors you are seeing. While on the other hand, Samsung is pointing out the 42% reduction from previous OLED's still maintains the same colors you're seeing. So based off that, the S10 is capable of reducing exposure without software tweaks.
It also appears that out of the box, the S10 is defaulted to the "Natural" color setting, and provides a "Vibrant" setting, which does increase color saturation. I wonder if the higher color setting changes your exposure by much...
Low_Key_Slaps said:
Did some more research on the Honor 8x, it appears they are advertising blue light reduction with their "eye comfort mode" which tweaks the colors you are seeing. While on the other hand, Samsung is pointing out the 42% reduction from previous OLED's still maintains the same colors you're seeing. So based off that, the S10 is capable of reducing exposure without software tweaks.
It also appears that out of the box, the S10 is defaulted to the "Natural" color setting, and provides a "Vibrant" setting, which does increase color saturation. I wonder if the higher color setting changes your exposure by much...
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Then the Honor 8x's solution is nothing more than a software re calibration tweak, I'm glad the S10 comes with a hardware solution that doesn't impact viewing experience.
But yeah using Vivid mode will increase your exposure to blue light depending on the displayed colors, I wouldn't worry that much, it is in no way as dangerous as the exposure to TVs, Desktop monitors or even daylight.
Can someone link to a bluelight study that shows its harmful. I lost my ebsco access when I left college. I always thought this was an overreaction. I've been staring at cool temp computer screens since the 90s, and my recent eye exam says my eyes are still perfect.
I've found the press release, but no peer reviewed papers.
http://utnews.utoledo.edu/index.php/08_08_2018/ut-chemists-discover-how-blue-light-speeds-blindness
YellowGTO said:
Can someone link to a bluelight study that shows its harmful. I lost my ebsco access when I left college. I always thought this was an overreaction. I've been staring at cool temp computer screens since the 90s, and my recent eye exam says my eyes are still perfect.
I've found the press release, but no peer reviewed papers.
http://utnews.utoledo.edu/index.php/08_08_2018/ut-chemists-discover-how-blue-light-speeds-blindness
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You can get peer reviewed content from google. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0194218
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734149/
Glad to know I'm not the only one. I even wear reading glasses with blue light filter due to my extreme light sensitivity, so yes, totally big deal for me too
Pwm is for losers. Now Sony is also on the oled bandwagon.