Since the launch of this device is still a couple of weeks away, I assume it's ok to be posting this here (Mods, please move if necessary.) since it will obviously be a hot topic in every custom ROM thread that will appear in this forum after Nov. 11th.
There are obviously three opinions on the matter. Some people like the UI, some people don't care otherwise, and then there's those of us who have been using Android tablets since they first came out (like me. Have had a XOOM from day one) and HATE the change from what we consider a perfect tablet UI for efficient navigation on a 10in landscape orientated tablet.
But, I'm not here to kvetch about the loss of the tablet UI in Android. I'm here to discuss what the options are as far as restoring it to the Nexus 10 (and other tablets going forward) from a development standpoint. Will custom ROM developers have to jump through hoops to bring back all (or even some) of the efficiency (and some of that space wasted by the top bar) back to our 10 inch slates? Of course, this all depends on weather the tablet UI may or may not be hidden in the code giving us the ability to turn it on or off with a little bit of hackery. Unfortunately, it looks like they've phased it out completely, which probably rules out that idea.
I've watched all of the videos and looked at the photos trying to think of ways it could be done. So far, the only idea I can come up with for bringing back a little bit of the magic is forcing the softkeys from the middle of the navigation bar to the left side of the navigation bar (that's something even I could do with a simple edit to an XML file.) This might actually be enough to make things make sense again, and moving the clock could probably be done fairly easily with a few tweaks here and there (I love how big and easy to read the clock is on the current tablet UI). But what about notifications? The way the new setup is, you have notifications on the top left and on the top right you have quick settings (which I don't consider very quick since they buttons just take you to the settings screens. Lame, Google. Lame.) This is where it obviously gets tricky and is beyond my very limited knowledge of Android code.
Any developers care to weigh in? Do any of you already miss the tablet UI and wish to bring it back even for your own use? What are your thoughts on the difficulty of implementing such changes (probably not even a valid question since the source hasn't even dropped yet, but, meh) and is it worth spending time on?
The Nexus 10 should obviously have AOSP support. This should make it pretty simple to add to CM10. Then, Paranoid Android should be pretty easy to compile for this device which brings many tablet mode features so you can have as much or as little tablet mode as you want.
con247 said:
The Nexus 10 should obviously have AOSP support. This should make it pretty simple to add to CM10. Then, Paranoid Android should be pretty easy to compile for this device which brings many tablet mode features so you can have as much or as little tablet mode as you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm getting at. Is the tablet UI code still even going to be in AOSP from 4.2 forward? It looks as if it's not. That's going to mean extra work for the devs, right?
arrtoodeetoo said:
Since the launch of this device is still a couple of weeks away, I assume it's ok to be posting this here (Mods, please move if necessary.) since it will obviously be a hot topic in every custom ROM thread that will appear in this forum after Nov. 11th.
There are obviously three opinions on the matter. Some people like the UI, some people don't care otherwise, and then there's those of us who have been using Android tablets since they first came out (like me. Have had a XOOM from day one) and HATE the change from what we consider a perfect tablet UI for efficient navigation on a 10in landscape orientated tablet.
But, I'm not here to kvetch about the loss of the tablet UI in Android. I'm here to discuss what the options are as far as restoring it to the Nexus 10 (and other tablets going forward) from a development standpoint. Will custom ROM developers have to jump through hoops to bring back all (or even some) of the efficiency (and some of that space wasted by the top bar) back to our 10 inch slates? Of course, this all depends on weather the tablet UI may or may not be hidden in the code giving us the ability to turn it on or off with a little bit of hackery. Unfortunately, it looks like they've phased it out completely, which probably rules out that idea.
I've watched all of the videos and looked at the photos trying to think of ways it could be done. So far, the only idea I can come up with for bringing back a little bit of the magic is forcing the softkeys from the middle of the navigation bar to the left side of the navigation bar (that's something even I could do with a simple edit to an XML file.) This might actually be enough to make things make sense again, and moving the clock could probably be done fairly easily with a few tweaks here and there (I love how big and easy to read the clock is on the current tablet UI). But what about notifications? The way the new setup is, you have notifications on the top left and on the top right you have quick settings (which I don't consider very quick since they buttons just take you to the settings screens. Lame, Google. Lame.) This is where it obviously gets tricky and is beyond my very limited knowledge of Android code.
Any developers care to weigh in? Do any of you already miss the tablet UI and wish to bring it back even for your own use? What are your thoughts on the difficulty of implementing such changes (probably not even a valid question since the source hasn't even dropped yet, but, meh) and is it worth spending time on?
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Click to collapse
I am guessing Google is among for an unified code and even the code is not removed for tablet ui in 4.2, its only a matter of time; the tablet ui presents a learning curve for most android users ( who are mostly smartphone users) thus like the iPad, unified ui would mostly make android tablets more accessible to general public; the reality is most people are not tech savvy like us ( otherwise everyone would been xda) thus casting to their needs would make androids expansion in the tablet market easier ( an endeavor which have been daunting for android and with w8, competition is more fierce than ever)
Sent from my GT-P7510 using XDA Premium HD app
i just wrote the same in another topic of that nature ...
1. the codebase was really, really old. dominated by honeycomb. it got tiny touch-ups with ics but thats it. the whole thing is a complete mess, though.
2. they hid tabUI from sight for the nexus7, lifting the layouts from 600dp (where the UI was situated traditionally) to 720dp, just enough for the nex7 to ignore it.
3. nexus10 will be 720dp or higher. the screenshots make it a fact that they have done something to these layout. either putting them higher still or killing them for good. i believe the second case is more likely, judging from the code.
i believe this is a transition. KLP will probably introduce a new systemUI. the old one is the worst part of the entire android framework. a messy spaghetticode something, breaking their own sdk.
Almost 400k pixels is used by... three buttons on Nexus 10. And you can't even hide them. This is ridiculous. Also I feel offended by what they said about microSD causing confusion - they treat as like idiots.
yeah, the tablet ui like it was has been perfect for tablets!
paranoidandroid for the nexus 10 would be awesome ... love it so much on my HOX. On my xoom I hide the navbar and use gestures to navigate, which is in my opinion the best way to fully use the screen's full potential. The new UI wasts precious space with a navbar AND a statusbar...
Personally I have never like the basic android User interface, it's thin and empty to say the least, it's has not a the beautiful view or a friendly user interface. Indeed I have never understood people running in search of Cyanogen ROM which are basically android base rom ported on other devices. The point of those nexus devices is having a very light ROM so you can have massive use of the play store and install 1000 apps including a better launcher for the home. Actually there is no match in beautiful and usability between android base interface and HTC sense 4.x for exemple ( which in my opinion is the best one out there and now it's also anymore that weight to run for the system ).
molesarecoming said:
i just wrote the same in another topic of that nature ...
1. the codebase was really, really old. dominated by honeycomb. it got tiny touch-ups with ics but thats it. the whole thing is a complete mess, though.
2. they hid tabUI from sight for the nexus7, lifting the layouts from 600dp (where the UI was situated traditionally) to 720dp, just enough for the nex7 to ignore it.
3. nexus10 will be 720dp or higher. the screenshots make it a fact that they have done something to these layout. either putting them higher still or killing them for good. i believe the second case is more likely, judging from the code.
i believe this is a transition. KLP will probably introduce a new systemUI. the old one is the worst part of the entire android framework. a messy spaghetticode something, breaking their own sdk.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you're getting one! Big fanboy here
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
It's just me or anybody else feels like they should get rid of the design of on screen buttons? It think it's a waste of space and has a very bad design, wich is not the case of holo theme that was clearly well concepted.
Any devs been able to poke through AOSP today? How's it looking for options on modifying the UI?
I like the current tablet UI, but will give the new layout an open minded evaluation. The navigation area doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, but maybe I am just unaware of some settings to customize it.
If you have rooted device you can now hide soft keys (and keep notification bar) without modifications and reboots. Just try my new app:
GMD Hide Soft Keys
It also adds Quick NavBar - soft keys that can be opened with simple swipe from bottom and then autohide when not needed.
Related
When I click on a text box I start typng and the box disappears. I type in another box and it wont show the whole box, if I navigate to a word off the screen nothing changes it doesn't move to show the word. These things don't happen every time but they happen enough. Like so many of the crappy things about android, if I didn't have an iPhone to compare it to I'd just think it's normal to experience some type of glitch large or small any time I use my phone's for more than a few seconds. I had a 3g and after I saw the I4's display I had to get one but I still have my vibrant and nexus. The incredible disparity between the I4 display and any android display is a whole different discussion. But when I use my 3g or I4 everything just works and looks nice, i don't get booted to the homescreen from the browser randomly. Things just consistently work. Just all those little glitches are so damn old on android. Its been too long to act like android is still new, its becoming the operating system for the masses which naturally implies less standards than the more exclusive apple OS.. My phone still does random reboots. It freezes without even trying to handle much. But the browser just acts like a 3rd party application compared to apple. As i type this im trying to navigate around the zoom icon thats hiding text, the text box is tiny and jerks around when i try to move the cursor. ts not even close to apple but its almost as old and experienced . People who haven't used an iPhone can tell me to go f myself but the rest of u understand. Isn't it ok to hold android to the gold standard that is the iPhone? Can we expect some elements of android and specifically the browser to "just work" as all of the elements of an iPhone do? I want to prefer android butits so far behind apple in terms of operating system that androids advantage in features is almost negaated by the fact that's so unpleasant to use those features. Anyone think gingerbread can really be the big step android needs? Because it needs a ton
ProTip: Get the XDA App if you want to post on the forums.
The browser works just fine for me. The iPhone utilizes GPU acceleration for the UI which is why it appears smoother overall. Guess what? Gingerbread will use the GPU for its UI also. Gingerbread is mostly focusing on making everything with the UI better so just hang on for that.
Hello there.
I'm a new Archos 101 16GB User having a mixed experience.
I feel that what I've got has huge potential, but just isn't being fulfilled - don't know if anyone else feels that.
I've come straight to tablets from netbooks and an iPhone, and have tried not to have any preconceived notions about how iPad sets the bar for these devices, although it does seem to be the case.
I'm finding, knowing very little about Android, that manufacturers have apparently rushed to force-fit a phone OS in a bigger package, which in respect of certain features makes the A101 seem like a giant (largeprint) smartphone. An example of this is the way in which the small, dainty iPhone-worthy icons for Apps can only be laid out on the 'desktop' panes with massive margins of space between them because the Android system seems to rigidly adhere to strict grid patterns for layout when really what users in this day and age want is user-definable pixel-perfect precise placement of elements. Of course, even iPhone is lacking this configurability.
Anyway, I'm currently trying to overcome my disappointment with the UI and the usability and consistency of desktops across horizontal and vertical orientations (Beautiful Widgets look 'OK' in portrait layout, and fugly in horizontal orientation), indeed the feeling that while what I wanted was the unified visual goodness of a WindowsMobile 7 type platform (or indeed the style brought by both HTC and third party developers (SPB?) to WinMo6, or indeed the carefully tuned visual loveliness of some of the HTC Android skins (Sense?) what I've actually got is a pretty clunky and grumpy Linux build that doesn't play well with its own software applications.
This is only a seventy two hour evaluation so far.
I've been looking at benchmarking, and have been led to Quadrant.
So I've got a batch of results, and I'm wondering if anyone cares to compare results and then compare notes.
I've already wiped and reinstalled the fresh FroYo firmware on the device, and am using gApps4 from these forums. I've populated with some apps and such, and had very unsatisfying attempts to switch from the stock Launcher (LauncherPro and ADW) as well as attempting to find usability in QuickDeskPro, mostly to no avail.
So in this 'stock' but loaded with apps state, Quadrant gives me a result of 780.
Then I've rooted with z4root and run SetCPU to give me 1000mhz on demand, and Quadrant gives me a result of 933.
Since then I've used SetCPU to give me 1000mhz on the 'performance' (non-scaled) setting and I get a result of 974.
With people in various forums talking about Archos Internet Tablet devices running Froyo giving them up to 1200 under Quadrant, I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong or lacking?
The 1200 scores you are talking about came from beta software and not the release software. Something was changed in the release version that brought Quadrant scores back down to those of 2.1. Don't read to much in to Quadrant scores though as they don't really affect real world use.
As for apps, the main issue is screen size and resolution. Many apps were not written with a resolution of 1024X600 in mind. So they don't scale very well. Beautiful Widgets is one of those. Once more developers become tablet aware and as Google increases compatibility with tablets this issue will go away.
The Android home screen is what you make it. There are other launcher, as you mentioned, that can be more customized however, there is no real theming that can be done on the 101 until it is rooted. This is the same for all Android devices unless of course you get a phone from HTC or one of the other OEMs that add their own theme to Android.
I think your main issue is that you know very little about Android and you are expecting it to be as evolved as iOS is even though it hasn't been around as long. New version of Android are coming that will be prettier and more tablet friendly but it will take a little time for it to be perfected.
with another beta beta firmware
the score is 1313
cajl said:
with another beta beta firmware
the score is 1313
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
any rumors regarding the release date?
About the same scores here. Topping out around 1000 in quadrant and a bit over 13 in Linpack.
Not sure about your problems installing launcherpro and adw, but I would try one or both again. The stock browser is horrendous in comparison (laggy, takes much longer swipes to see action, etc).
czesiu said:
any rumors regarding the release date?
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Click to collapse
With the A5A last year they gave us one on 14 Dec and another on 24 Dec.
Allen
AllenPapapetrou said:
and another on 24 Dec.
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Click to collapse
crazy Archos devs
no firmware the friday
cajl said:
no firmware the friday
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?
________________
I get 820 on a temp-rooted archos 101 8GB with 1GHz set by set cpu.
Appearently the H264-coding takes much too long... my htc desire takes a fraction of a second to pass this test while the archos takes several seconds (20+). I read in another thread that the hardware isn't supported yet by Android-API on the Archos, which will be changed in the future, i presume.
Another glitch: The second 3D-test is much slower than on the Desire (7fps compared to 25), with some errors on the moon (black triangles). Perhaps the OpenGLS-driver is faulty in some way. The first 3D-test, however, shows 3-5 frames more per second than the Desire (clocked at 1152 MHz).
Thanks for the input, guys. I'm sure you all know how comforting, and useful it is to be able to geek out on a forum, compare stories and get tips.
BlazingWolf, I'm certain that you're right. Android is entirely new to me other than a quick fiddle (ooh-err) with a Sammy GTab in a branch of PCWorld with a snotty little elf breathing down my neck to see if he could play games on it.
My big mistake in starting to experiment with this device was that I came at it from an iPhone background, expecting to just load up a device with apps from an app store and watch as it sings, dances and performs tricks for me.
I'm back down to earth with a bump (and not in a bad way) because of the greater openness, some would say 'fragmentation' of the Android platform which creates a scenario similar to that in the PC world where we can have any one of a number of preconfigured devices using specific but sometimes unique chipset combinations, with an array of OS's and software that can be installed on them.
I'm sure one day Android will mature to the place where we begin to see such harmony on the software front end in such a way as the hardware backend becomes irrelevant.
My first 72 hours with the device were bitty. I was expecting these instant results and instant satisfaction, and progress didn't really start to be achieved until I'd wiped the A101 and reinstalled 2.2 from scratch. That's a daunting task, especially to a casual user who might buy this off the shelf. Of course, I'm sure Archos are already looking at that and working to fix it so that the product is good to go from the off.
I'm warming very quickly to the A101. I want to like it. I still have an A504wifi which has only ever been used as a much-loved, if clunky looking and with a sucky interface, portable video player, which has had a great deal of use. So I've been excited about the A101 for a while.
And as a device it is an odd one to classify. The inevitable comparison with the iPad is not necessarily as clear cut as it seems. We have to be utilitarian, sometimes, in looking at these things. The iPad fulfils a multiple of tasks, like the Archos, and it does it within a tightly regulated and strictly defined 'controlled' environment which pushes constantly at 'parity' across all contemporary devices (the OS version for example). This gives us an elegant, reliable but inflexible interface, the trade-off for which is the relative safety of the apps in the app store. The Archos, on the other hand, has a less than elegant interface, is suffering from the issues of platform fragmentation and the remote relationship between the OS developer and the hardware manufacturer, has an App Store full of garbage that doesn't work properly but might get fixed one day, and takes a lot of 'taming' as an all-round package in order to get consistent and satisfying results. That said, the nature of the more open platform affords more opportunities, akind to jailbreaking the iDevices, in successfully customising the device to complete satisfaction, and as already said assuming the OS platform is sufficiently developed to catch up with these new 'tablet' formats, especially the larger screen varieties, we could see something really special and really refined happening.
Where the Archos succeeds, however, is that it is clearly a better platform for at least two of the intended functions of the iPad. We've got a better movie player, capable of working with more formats, with instant HDMI output, and with a proper widescreen display instead of the iPad's nearly 4:3 widescreen letterbox squinty vision. We've also got a better e-reader than the Apple ArmBreaker. OK, the bezel on the iPad is easier to grip single-handed than the Archos's much thinner, but much more elegant design, but this is a device I can sit in an armchair with and actually fall asleep while still holding the thing (I know... it happened). With an iPad, I have to keep shuffling position because the thing is so dang heavy.
The Archos seems to be only a few shades shy of perfect, as far as a hardware platform goes.
Granted, Tegra2 might be fun. And definately the low amount of RAM is an inexplicable and bizarre mistake. Plus we could have done with a 32Gb storage option. Oh, and a more easily viewable screen would be nice.
But as I tweek the thing, and accept the failings of OS and softwares, while anticipating future fixes, I'm really getting to like the little fella. I just need a really nice case to cart it around in, and a decent size memory card so I can store more, and I suspect that if someone can make a permanent root happen, that will pave the way to things like 'Startup Managers' so I can stop some of these apps auto loading when I don't need them to.
A question, though... is there any reason why the MicroSD capacity is listed as being limited to 32GB? Is that an actual capacity ceiling, or is it just the number that was most commonly available or tested at the time? Is the hardware limited to 32Gig or is it Android which is limited? Can the Archos 101 'scale' as MicroSD capacities get larger, or are we literally stuck with 32GB?
I've had no issues with build quality, possibly because I don't expect it to be as solid as an iPad, being a cheaper price and different materials. I've never really had much history of busting my devices with rough treatment or accidents, and even my 'expensive' iPhone 3GS has experienced the not-uncommon 'natural' phenomena of cracks appearing in the back casing around the dock port.
One thing I did notice is that when the A101 first arrived fresh from FedEx the box was freezing cold and so was the device, and when I unpackaged it, the top edge of the device (top of the screen when held in landscape) appeared to be quite significantly convex in shape, arced, not separated from the glass in any way, but definitely bulging. I did a lot of pressing back down on the bulge and letting the device get to room temperature before this 'bulge' became minimal. It is there ever so slightly even now, but doesn't appear to be putting any pressure or distortion on the screen.
Oh, and I think it is just the viewing angle issue, but when I hold the device in portrait to browse long pages or long lists, it almost appears as if the screen itself is convex, and I tend to tilt it back and forth to change the viewing angle on each section of the screen. The screen could definately have been executed better, and I don't think it would have raised the price too significantly.
Any other tips for an A101 n00b would be greatly welcomed.
32GB is atm the maximum you can build a sd to.
The std doesn't give more.
There is a new spec by sony that has more, but it seems not compatible.
I'm not sure if you're interested, but my Samsung Galaxy S used to only do about 900 on the Quadrant benchmark with Android 2.1, it was laggy and slow and really seemed a bit disappointing! Then came Froyo! My oh my, what a difference, unbelievable! It's snappy, touch, and it's there, spin, and it spins, breath, and it feels you! And, it also performs excellently in a Quandrant test now, usually in excess of 1700, even out performs most Nexus One phones I think.
It's absolutely blown me away that a simple software upgrade could entirely change a user experience so much! Battery life has also improved dramatically, at times giving me upto 12 hours or more with general use (regular texting plus photos etc). Which is really great for a 1500mAh battery.
So, I wouldn't give up. Froyo is a really smooth incarnation of Android, and future releases will no doubt get even better. It's exciting seeing what having a company as powerful as Google, backing an opensource project like Android can achieve.
While Microsoft and other companies are focusing purely on developing products from a financial profitability standpoint, Google seems to be able to focus more on simply developing a really excellent product.
I think the biggest 'downside' to Android is that numerous companies overload it with bloatware and don't optomise it enough for their hard ware. There is maybe just a general lack of understanding on the importance of making Android work WITH not against the hardware it's on.
Keep the faith though, have a play around with it and I'm sure eventually things will improve for you, otherwise, if you're really disappointed just go and buy a Samsung Galaxy tab or something similar! Samsung does a really good job, even though they take a looooooong time for updates!
Just ran quadrant, score was 1380. Gapps5 launcher pro plus non root.
2500 with urukdroid build
Hey all - I am VERY loath to ask any of these questions, as I pride myself on doing research and figuring things out for myself, but I've come to the point where I just need to ask this community. I purchased the Gtab as part of the Woot fiasco, and immediately replaced stock firmware with Vegantab. From a general perspective, it works fine, with all the know quirks. However, this is my first Android device. I've been modifying windows phones and working with jailbroken iphones and other fiddly things with computers for a long time, so I'm not faint-hearted at tweaking. Anyway, my questions are these:
Given the hardware this thing sports, the performance ROTS. Is it because the OS is just not polished? It's slow to shift from screen to screen. It often delays in recognizing my touch when trying to scroll icons that it thinks I actually am trying t launch an app. In general, it just feels inferior in speed and snappiness of, for instance, iOS (I understand it is much easier to have a single platform to put an OS on and optimize it). I get the program not responding screen, wait or close way too frequently for my tastes.
Then there's the fact that every app installed seems to want to run itself in the background at all times. I'm constantly using the task manager to kill everything, which frees up a ton of RAM and then the tab runs better for a little while. I can't seem to find a way to prevent these apps from doing this. There is probably something very obvious that I am missing, but Facebook should not just decide on its own to run in the background when I haven't launched it.
Any thoughts on any of these things, or can someone point me to an obvious FAQ that I'm missing that answers all my questions?
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes. That said, I have advanced task killer widget on my home screen and use it whenever things get a little sluggish. I don't use the Facebook app, but most apps have the option in the in-app settings to disable background updates. There are task manager apps that claim to prevent other apps from launching at start up, or kill them automatically, but these will usually end up eating more resources than they save.
As far as home screen switching, I'm not a fan of the stock froyo launcher on a tablet this size. It always seems that the device is expecting a much larger swipe that should be necessary to switch home screens. I use Launcher Pro and it feels faster and more responsive than the iPad 2 for going between home screens.
The scrolling/ inadvertent selecting issue I can relate to. If your coming from iOS, there is this an expectation that the device will always tell the difference between a scroll and a tap. That expectation isn't unreasonable, because Apple is stellar at making scrolling interfaces feel perfect. They have whole sessions at WWDC about implementing scrolling lists into apps. Android on the other hand requires a more deliberate scrolling. Android has gotten a lot better over time, but it often requires a much more deliberate scrolling action by the user. "Flicking" like on the iPad usually doesn't register perfectly for me.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
brettdwagner said:
In theory Android OS should free up RAM as you need it. Google will swear up and down that task killers are unnecessary, and the user doesn't need to manage background processes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's like automatic garbage collection, isn't it? Really useful, but sometimes you want to explicitly free things.
There is a way to kill foreground apps on Android. Settings > Applications > Development > Stop app via long-press, will kill the foreground app if you "long-press" the Android back key. Background apps you can either kill using task-managers or not start at all using tools like Autorun Manager from Market.
One thing you may notice on the G Tables is that pinch and zoom is wildly unreliable when pinching on the same x or y axis. I'm pretty sure this is a universal issue with the screen. It has trouble recognizing multitouch input when the points of contact are on the same axis. Pinching at an angle is the only way I can zoom reliably.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I've noticed this too. Pinch-to-zoom at the same y-axis is hopeless. Same x-axis works okay, but, at an angle works best.
I actually appreciated your post. You knew the limitations of hte device before buying it...you didn't comment on the atrocious screen (and accepted what was to be)
The biggest downfall with the G-Tablet itself was it's software. You admitted that you immediately flashed VeganTab. When I bought mine, it came with TNT Lite, to which I then immediately also flashed to Vegan 5.1.1. I never experienced the stock rom, and actually considered myself lucky, due to the reviews I've read.
I think that some of our issues may actually be due to the fact that we're using software that wasn't specifically designed for OUR devices. Yes, they are all android, yes, they should all work fine, and do, at times, but if using a froyo or gingerbread rom, we're using software designed for phones. I haven't tried the Alpha version of HC (BOS) yet, but even in Alpha stages, people are raving about it, even with it's limitations.
I just recently started using Brilliant Corners. In the flash process, I had to have Stock 4349 (1.2 stock firmware) on the system. I can honestly say that it really wasn't that bad. The response seemed a tad better, I never got the "Forceclose : Wait" option when a process was "thinking." things would just pop up. I can only think that as bad as it is, it manages itself better than some of the ports and mod's we are using, simply becuase they were MADE for the G-Tablet. Yeah, it's ugly, and you can do half of what I can do on BC.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
What I find intolerable at times is that Angry Birds: Seasons (only that one, no others) will have really choppy graphics. I haven't found a way to fix it, I've overclocked, though I didn't think that would help, I've uninstalled, and installed, I've recovered backups, etc...alas, rebooting will fix it...it's weird. Not one other game will do that, except for AB:S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works for me, although the birds do take off on their own from time to time. Have you tried downloading from a different source? I pulled my angry birds from Amazon. I'm running Vegan-Tabs 7.0.0
Please don't be offended, as I do believe your question is being asked in good faith. However, I have to admit that I haven't experienced any of the problems you're describing. I've had an iPod Touch since gen 1, and I haven't noticed any difference in the responsiveness. My g Tablet responds the same to flicks as it does to slower swipes, without interpretting them as taps.
I also haven't experienced the slow downs you're referring to when running multiple background apps, though that may have to do with the particular apps you have.
I have not had an issue with zooming in and out by pinching along either the x- or y-axis
Finally, I at least don't feel like the swipe to change screens is excesssive, but then again that could be personal taste or because I'm using a Gingerbread-based ROM.
The one issue I do have is with the on-screen touch keyboard. I feel sometimes that it fails to register letters if I type too fast; I haven't had this issue with iOS, but at least I think I can get used to it, and for serious typing I'll probably use a physical keyboard.
Incidently, I'm using Cyanogenmod 7, which seems to be the "pet ROM" of these forums, for better (it's a solid ROM with a large developer community) or worse (it's not nearly as innovative as mods being developed by some "other users" *ahem*roebeet*cough). I'm not saying this is the reason why I have not experienced these issues; maybe they aren't so striking to me or maybe I've been lucky?
EDITTED: Most typos are due to annoyances with using an on-screen keyboard with the g Tab.
Tablet has been fine to me. Screen responsiveness is on par with iphone/ipad/my htc evo screen.
Vegan tab rom is fresh...all .my functions work sure my wifi drops out after sleeping for a while (yes changed sleep settings) but hey I spent 250 not 500 and I have flash sd and usb....all of which I use everyday.
Thanks for all the responses. I rather expected to get somewhat of a range of replies from "I agree with you" to "you're crazy, mine is fine". To be very clear, I'm not trying to rip on the device at all. I knew I was rolling the dice a little and I know that Android really hasn't matured for a Tablet just yet (in my eyes).
I guess I've sort of had my questions answered to some degree.
scyld - I'm not offended in the least. I have an iphone 4 and many of my coworkers use iPads every day. They are definitely more responsive (to me). However, the stock iOS wasn't on my iPhone. Now that I have it jailbroken and can control which apps suck up memory, it behaves flawlessly. What I believe to be the scrolling/flicking issue is actually that the OS interprets spaces IN BETWEEN icons to be part of those icons, where Apple's OS does not. If I tap between icons on the Gtab, it will launch the one closest to my finger. iOS will not do this. That alone may be why the scrolling seems to be more accurate. I may well try Cyanogen. I mostly don't care about bells and whistles - just responsiveness and usability.
I wasn't aware that Google used the same line about memory usage that Apple swears - in fact, my friend and I stopped in the Apple store because she was having a problem with docking her iphone in her car... The tech ran a scan and told her incidentally that she was out of app memory and told her how to 'kill those pesky tasks' by tapping the little red minuses on all the apps in the app dock. I couldn't stop laughing.
I guess what we're dealing with is the result of an open source open hardware landscape. By having such a fractured base of developers, manufacturers, varying hardware specs, etc, it is much harder to optimize any particular build for any particular device. I did use the stock firmware for a few days and simply found it too limiting. Not to mention the lack of a market, etc. Apple's success is in large part due to the way it's app store works. Every device has it. The app warns you what it will work on and what it will not. Application updates tell you what the update fixes or adds (which Market does only very rarely). I appreciate that there are multiple markets for Android, but they should stick to some established rules for the information given.
I'm writing a novel - sorry - All this being said, I love the idea of Android (and hate iTunes with a passion) and I'm looking forward to a generation or two down the road of the tablet ROMs. I'll give the other ROMs a shot and see if there is improvement. I really appreciate the developers work on the platform thus far. I'll keep reading and messing with settings, tips, tricks to improve what I can.
for me its a toss up between the ipad 2 and the prime. I wanted to know why the people here are after the prime instead of going for the ipad 2.
keep in mind, i don't know what androids like at all, so please answer in more detail then: I like android more then apple.
people talk about freedom of the device, whats that about? i can download stuff using something like utorrent? could i install games not made for android? i wish i knew more about this thing, but im bad at research.
Please don't tell me why you like the ipad2 better, i just want to know stuff about the prime that the ipad2 is missing for you.
Well for one, its hasn't been released yet, so for most people its a competition between old technology and new technology. Plus you are on an Android/Palm/Windows dominated forum.
As for why people prefer Android to Apple, there are many reasons. For a majority of the people on XDA it has to do with the ability to completely customize the entire operating system, something that apple cant do (either by restrictions or a less dedicated mod community), anything from modifications to stock or a completely independent new rom, thats what XDA does.
For many people they don't trust Apple for the way they trick customers and do buisness. There are hundreds of reason, too many for me (one person to list) as for why people prefer Android to IOS.
In addition to Android being a more open system than iOS, it also seems to be getting updated at a quicker pace. If (or when) your device gets outdated, you will always have a dedicated community keeping your device up to date for a long time.
Also, the connectivity on a device like Prime seems to be above and beyond what you get on the iPad.
You have Micro HDMI out (need dongle for iPad), Micro SD card slot for expanding memory (not available on iPad), option to get a keyboard dock w/extra battery (only wireless option that drains battery for iPad)
With the dock you get even more connectivity with a regular USB port (needs another dongle on iPad) that supports regular mouse/keyboard. Also supports a USB hub should you want to use your regular PC Mouse/Keyboard.
I might be biased since I have only played with iPads and never owned one. Did sell my Galaxy Tab 10.1 and pre ordered the Prime though.
Just my $0.02
IMHO, it's because the Transformer Prime is a true convergence device. Apple could have easily made something like it, but to protect their profits, they kept the iPad and MBA separate (i.e. crippled) instead.
If the iPad could do everything a Mac can do, Apple would stand to lose a lot of profits. So that's why the smart money is on the Transformer Prime.
Blueman101 said:
Well for one, its hasn't been released yet, so for most people its a competition between old technology and new technology. Plus you are on an Android/Palm/Windows dominated forum.
As for why people prefer Android to Apple, there are many reasons. For a majority of the people on XDA it has to do with the ability to completely customize the entire operating system, something that apple cant do (either by restrictions or a less dedicated mod community), anything from modifications to stock or a completely independent new rom, thats what XDA does.
For many people they don't trust Apple for the way they trick customers and do buisness. There are hundreds of reason, too many for me (one person to list) as for why people prefer Android to IOS.
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Click to collapse
true, its not out yet, but a lot of people have watched a crap ton of videos or have had some hands on. I also would like to know how android works for the tablet.. lol im a complete nub at this stuff.
joe_dude said:
IMHO, it's because the Transformer Prime is a true convergence device. Apple could have easily made something like it, but to protect their profits, they kept the iPad and MBA separate (i.e. crippled) instead.
If the iPad could do everything a Mac can do, Apple would stand to lose a lot of profits. So that's why the smart money is on the Transformer Prime.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great answer, this makes me lean towards the prime.
Truth be told, im MOST likely getting the prime, i just would like to hear good things about it.
Obvisously it being the tube first quad core tablet and being 32gb at the same price point as the 16gb iPad 2 are huge reasons. Of course with the dock the price is 650 but I believe it's a worthy addition. It's also thinner, has way more connectivity, I.e. hdmi out, SD slot, etc. The promise of having ICS (Google's new OS) before the end of the year.
You can't really tinker with ios and I don't actually consider it an OS anyways. Just homescreen after homescreen of start menus. Ios is boring and just overall not an enjoyable experience. Everytime I use my EVO 3d I still get excited about all the stuff i can do with it. Google is just more enticing in my opinion.
If you really are bad at research you might consider sticking with the iPad2. I think of Android as the tinkerer's OS. I have IT degrees and certs and still have to research pretty hard to keep up with all the work that the great devs here do. It's not the simplest platform out there. However if you want to get better at researching this stuff and like learning about your tech from the inside out I say get the Prime and watch these forums closely.
The biggest upside to this tablet over any other tablet for me though is the keyboard dock. It's an ingenious innovation in tablets that is sure to be copied at some point. A peripheral that actually adds battery life while providing not one, not two, but three or more excellent options (usb, sd, keys) to the device is pretty amazing.
skeptikal said:
If you really are bad at research you might consider sticking with the iPad2. I think of Android as the tinkerer's OS. I have IT degrees and certs and still have to research pretty hard to keep up with all the work that the great devs here do. It's not the simplest platform out there. However if you want to get better at researching this stuff and like learning about your tech from the inside out I say get the Prime and watch these forums closely.
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Click to collapse
im sure ill be able to get the most of it.
Pretty simple. its not Apple. that is the biggest selling point
I considered the iPad2 for about 10seconds after the whole Amazon cancelling orders fiasco, but then I realize how boring and expensive the thing really is. 64GB model is 120$ more expensive, no option for a decent keyboard dock, gated community iOS crap.... BUT they do have some apps I do want that aren't out YET for Android. I don't know, I want a tablet with functionality, customizability, and with next year's tech in it. Honestly, after ICS I probably won't bother rooting and flashing the device... But I still prefer an Android. It's a fun OS, ICS looks amazing, and if I ever decide to root and flash, I can! The iPad doesn't really offer that much. It hardly lets you do decent word processing last I checked.
I mean, since Dropbox and all that stuff, syncing docs between devices is a joke, I remember the iPad1 being kinda lame in that respect (plus it was using that Apple word processing suite... ick). I don't know... and the whole Gamestop getting behind Tegra 3 is really awesome. Gives me hope that Android might get more exposure, get more popular, and therefore more devs actually working to release games on the platform rather than iOS only.
I just think it's kinda lame that Asus didn't have enough stock to go around to release these things before Christmas... Regardless, I'm staying away from iPads THIS year and getting the Prime.
I own an iPad2 for about half a year.
And I am an Android user, my phone is HTC Desire, Nexus S, and pre-ordered Galaxy Nexus.
First of all, please excuse my english language
Previously, I was waiting a good decent Android tablet, good hardware profile, good battery life, screen is nice, etc.
My eyes was on Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, but Honeycomb 3.0 at that time really put me off with issues like "slow text input on web page". And the fact that it came very late in Europe (even barred in Germany!).
ASUS Transformer 1 just does not cut it, I don't like the hardware profile, thick and heavier than GTab 10.1. Sure, I use iPad2 as reference because as Android user, I always want a device that is better (or on par) than fruit device!
I could wait and wait, but nevertheless my wife asked me a tablet and I thought iPad2 will suit her (as non power user).
After half a year using this iPad2, here are some things that I don't like:
1. The virtual keyboard.
Why on earth, Apple created virtual keyboard like that? No lower case indication, no easy way to output numeric chars (on Android, I can long press), and way too much click to output []+ for example (I hate this when I create a post in XDA starting with "[Q]" ... or typing "Google+"). Really, I wish I can change the keyboard. Alas, I cant.
With Android, you can change it the way you want. There are many good virtual keyboard apps!
2. Non-unified file system
All right, in iOS, there is no unified file system. Each app has its own storage space. That's make a bit difficult to manage files. Granted, I always want to use my device as storage for my files. There is nothing wrong with it, right?
If I got a file attachment in iOS, how do I download it? How can I access that file from other apps?
3. Sharing thing
On Android, if I have something, like a file, an app, or anything, I can easily share it with other users via intuitive user interface, using WhatsApp, Facebook, Google+, email, what not.
I simply cannot do this with iOS. You can say, this is not a big deal, but that's disadvantage.
Right now, I always go back to my Nexus S to share things!
4. Boring home screen
Yeah, this is obvious. There is nothing you can do with iOS home screen. Icons icons and loads of icons. I want "direct information" right in the home screen, like weather, news, system status, etc. You cannot have that, you must access each app manually to get that information. With Android, you can have widget, simple.
------------
So, now, with the Prime, I think I found the right tablet for me I still hate Honeycomb, but it will get ICS.
The hardware profile is much better than the iPad2, with SD card slot, HDMI, and decent keyboard dock. While still maintaining thinner and lighter profile.
Why shouldn't I get one?
People complaint about "smoothness" and "fluidity" of the scrolling / home screen. Yes, most probably iOS is better on this, but ICS is not that bad! I don't think you will experience choppy and laggy user interface or such. I will opt for all those advantages on Android rather than just smoothness.
Apps, apps and apps. Yeah, this is personal. So far, I am satisfied with all apps that I can get from Android. ... Of course, except Facebook app! But, I think I can use the web browser
Hope this helps
Here's what can be done on android that can't on iOS. (expect maybe by jailbreaking but it become way less convenient than your usual iOS expérience)
_ widget : widget are great on tablet where you have big screen. Lot of usefull and funny stuff can be had to the homescreens.
_lives wallpapers : many cool looking or even usefull interactive wallpapers.
_ acces to files. You can dl torrents and every thing else easily.
_ google stuff intégration. Google is the best on the internet. Android is where google shine the most.
_ change every thing in the os. Homescreens, keyboard, everything can be change by a single tap in the market.
_ custom rom. Developpers can build thing that completly change the way android works.
_ geeky funny stuff like easter egg
_flash
Overall, with Android you'll never find yourself unable to do something that a low power device should be able to do (don't expect to do a CG short movie on your tablet...) And the experience of the OS itself (outside of each individual apps) is way less boring than iOS.
gogol said:
People complaint about "smoothness" and "fluidity" of the scrolling / home screen. Yes, most probably iOS is better on this, but ICS is not that bad! I don't think you will experience choppy and laggy user interface or such. I will opt for all those advantages on Android rather than just smoothness.
Apps, apps and apps. Yeah, this is personal. So far, I am satisfied with all apps that I can get from Android. ... Of course, except Facebook app! But, I think I can use the web browser
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
smoothness is a big deal for me, but i had the ipad, this thing MUST... MUUUSST!! be faster then my ipad1?! don't tell me its less fluid then that. I don't know if i could handle it.
You know, iOS will always better on that smoothness/fluidity of the user interface, even with ICS.
You know why?
Because iOS does a lot less than Android.
Really, a lot less ...
For example, see the above post from user kokusho. Those are just examples what you cannot do on iOS.
But, have you seen ICS on Galaxy Nexus and some bit demos on the Prime?
I don't think that is not acceptable for smoothness.
ICS is super fast, but at certain times, you might "perceive" some kind of lag. For example, going back/to home screen from apps drawer, or long SMS list. But yeah, that does not mean it is not fast nor smooth. It is smooth, but it is not the same like iOS.
As I said, I won't bother that much. There are a lot more advantages on Android that make life easier for using tablet. And it will get better.
Really, to answer your question on this thread is "very simple":
Why Do You Like The Prime More Then The Ipad2?
Because The Prime with Android can do much more than iPad2 ...
Here, if you want to know more about Android smoothness/fluidity:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105051985738280261832/posts/2FXDCz8x93s
If you know a bit about "technical", it's worth to read ...
blaziner18 said:
smoothness is a big deal for me, but i had the ipad, this thing MUST... MUUUSST!! be faster then my ipad1?! don't tell me its less fluid then that. I don't know if i could handle it.
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Click to collapse
blaziner18 said:
for me its a toss up between the ipad 2 and the prime. I wanted to know why the people here are after the prime instead of going for the ipad 2.
keep in mind, i don't know what androids like at all, so please answer in more detail then: I like android more then apple.
people talk about freedom of the device, whats that about? i can download stuff using something like utorrent? could i install games not made for android? i wish i knew more about this thing, but im bad at research.
Please don't tell me why you like the ipad2 better, i just want to know stuff about the prime that the ipad2 is missing for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I had Asus Transformer one and currently I have Ipad 2. Here is why Ipad 2 is a piece of crap:
CONS OF IPADS:
1. Ipads have much worse resolution. On paper it you might think it is not that bad. But when I sold TF (just to wait and buy Prime of course) and bought Ipad2 (a temporary solution) I could not believe my eyes. Asus have a great display. Everything is sharp and clear. Ipads resolution is not good enough. While playing games the difference is almost invisible. But when browsing internet, reading books and so on the difference is huge. On Ipad the text is not clear, not sharp. My eyes have hard work to make. Believe me or not. Ipads displays sucks.
2. Ipads do not have external slots lile SD slot, USB slot. If you want to copy to Ipad mp3 or mkv you have to use stupid Itunes. Also if you copy some files into Ipad they are only seen by a certain application you are going to use to play those files. While in Android tablets like great TF you copy files and you can access to the by any of application on tablet. Full freedom.
3. You cannot customize desktop on Ipad. After using TF I felt a huge discomfort using Ipad. I could do nothing with the screen. No widgets, no nothing...
4. No flash on ipad. I have few favorite WWW which demands flash. They worked on TF properly but on Ipad.... they do not. lol....
PROS OF IPAD
1. More GAMES. Yes games only. So what you have plenty of apps. But not having the ability of widgets (like weather) those apps are not so attractive like those for Android. But comparing Android games with Ipad games I must say that there are only few more (for me) games on iOS than on Android. I thought there will be much more great games on iOS. Another disappointment.
As for me Ipads are just toys. More like consoles. A stuff for kids mostly. For people not demanding having a PC compared possibilities.
If you want to have useless toy - take Ipad. Want to have small PC - take Android - Asus PRIME! YEACH! AMEN!
iPad 2 pros:
Software availability - but this will change, development is increasingly Android + iOS rather than iOS first, Android port maybe some day.
Raw GPU power - potential for more graphically-impressive games, though Tegra 3's GPU is still good and may win out on more complex scenes?
Ease of use - there's not much to the OS, so not much to go wrong.
3G version available - would have to use another device (or maybe dongle) with the Prime.
Transformer Prime pros:
Customisability - you can change anything on Android, Apple want to control the experience.
No walled garden - free to install any application without Google's permission, no need to jailbreak.
Screen - higher resolution and brighter.
Raw CPU power - the other side of the coin, this gives the Prime more potential than the iPad 2 in other areas.
Dock option - makes the Prime into an Android netbook and extends battery life. iPad alternative is not integrated, drains the battery, and does not have a trackpad.
Expansion - microSDHC card slot and micro-HDMI port on tablet, and SD card slot and USB 2.0 port on dock. iPad requires additional dongles.
Camera - superior camera. Though I'm not sure what you're doing with a camera on a tablet.
For some (most?) people, the ease of use and application availability points mean the iPad 2 wins out. But for most of us here, being able to change stuff and use more of the potential of the device means that the Prime is the winner.
infinitemethod said:
Obvisously it being the tube first quad core tablet and being 32gb at the same price point as the 16gb iPad 2 are huge reasons. Of course with the dock the price is 650 but I believe it's a worthy addition. It's also thinner, has way more connectivity, I.e. hdmi out, SD slot, etc. The promise of having ICS (Google's new OS) before the end of the year.
You can't really tinker with ios and I don't actually consider it an OS anyways. Just homescreen after homescreen of start menus. Ios is boring and just overall not an enjoyable experience. Everytime I use my EVO 3d I still get excited about all the stuff i can do with it. Google is just more enticing in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truth, iOS gets very boring. I was using an iPhone 4 for maybe 2 months and there was something about it that I didn't like. Now I figured it out once I went back to my X2. iOS is just so plain and linear, it holds your hand on everything. Even when you're installing a jailbreak mod, you just press "Install" and sit back unlike on Android where you have boot into recovery yourself and point it to whatever it is you want to flash.
I found my Transformer better than the iPad, so I'm sure I'll find the Prime better as well
I look at the iPad as dummy-proof. Too simplistic for my needs, and kind of boring, just having grids of icons. I also like to tweak things, and even without rooting, Android has a a lot of personalizations that I cannot do with iOS.
Apple innovates, and repackages well, and they know how to make things look cool that have been around for a long time (brilliant marketing). However, I just do not like the 'better than you' smugness that is too often associated with folks who pony up the Apple premium prices.
I had an iPad and currently have an iPad2 for work, but I want what I want, and I just feel that Apple doesn't allow me to do that.
I had a Xoom, which was okay, but seemed first gen. My hacked Nook Color is more useful to me, and I may keep it to read books on (I read lots of books). The Xoom is quite a bit heavier than the Prime, and I found that reading for long periods was a chore on the Xoom in comparison to the compact and lighter Nook Color
I'm hoping that the Prime is the "baby bear" (just right) to the "papa bear" Xoom (too big and cumbersome) and "mama bear" Nook color (a bit too small). ..and don't ask me how I thought of that analogy.. I was just thinking of comparing three things
Bimboy said:
I'm hoping that the Prime is the "baby bear" (just right) to the "papa bear" Xoom (too big and cumbersome) and "mama bear" Nook color (a bit too small). ..and don't ask me how I thought of that analogy.. I was just thinking of comparing three things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't The Prime be more like Goldilocks? The one all the bears are after?
Seriously though, the widgets are the thing that really sets Android apart IMHO. On my phone (Dell Streak 5), every person I've shown it to is just amazed.
I have the weather, lists (groceries and to-do), music player, RSS feed and calendar widgets. That at-a-glance information means I can get out the door quicker in the morning and not be late! And it's my book/manga reader too.
I mean perhaps not as smooth as ios but better than this honeycomb crap lol
broken1i said:
I mean perhaps not as smooth as ios but better than this honeycomb crap lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
100% it runs smooth as butter on the Galaxy Nexus and that's only two cores. ICS with the hardware acceleration and 4/5 cores should be super fast.
ICS will be a significant improvement across the board on everything. IMO this honeycomb is already as smooth as IOS and I own an Ipad to constantly compare it to some people report lag, most report it being super fast. I never had any lag issues since I got this on 12/22.
You'd be surprised what one or two crappy apps set to "quietly load" on start up can do to android, even with 4 cores or my sgs2 overclocked to 1.6ghz. #1 culprit running/lagging in background, engadget app. I have no problem running it, but with a desktop widget once you run and hit back or home without "killing" it it'll take 80% cpu for no reason for god knows how long. With my gs2 my pocket starts cookin a bit as engadget is one of the only apps that bug-pegs it at 1.6ghz long term, even with the screen off, lol. And yes i see the irony, though the engadget app isnt alone. I've just learned to kill that app and remove what i dont use regularly (titanium is great for this).
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Until android rewrite the UI it will never be as 'smooth' as IOS.
IOS have a seperate layer for the UI as soon as you touch the screen all processing stops (apps would never finish installing, web browser would never finish loading) and continues as soon as you remove your finger.
With android loading continues regardless of if your touching the screen or not, so it then has to try and do both things at once hence the lag when an app is installing or web page loading.
4 cores when utilised properly with ICS will help though
well gang it will be here on the 12th, can't wait.
kevinm2k said:
Until android rewrite the UI it will never be as 'smooth' as IOS.
IOS have a seperate layer for the UI as soon as you touch the screen all processing stops (apps would never finish installing, web browser would never finish loading) and continues as soon as you remove your finger.
With android loading continues regardless of if your touching the screen or not, so it then has to try and do both things at once hence the lag when an app is installing or web page loading.
4 cores when utilised properly with ICS will help though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you explain the Playbook running so smooth with everything truly running in the background?. Its as smooth as iOS. (RIM actually got something right) Android lags because its badly optimised compared to iOS, QNX, WebOS and others. ICS is a step closer to getting there but not yet, it is smooth but not 'as' smooth.
recklesslife85 said:
How do you explain the Playbook running so smooth with everything truly running in the background?. Its as smooth as iOS. (RIM actually got something right) Android lags because its badly optimised compared to iOS, QNX, WebOS and others. ICS is a step closer to getting there but not yet, it is smooth but not 'as' smooth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the playbook had the UI rewritten. I got my information from an interview with a lead android developer and they explained what I said above. Android was developed to compete with symbian and blackberry at the time then when iphone came out, android rushed it to market but at that point the UI was already flawed.
I'll try and find the source but it was from a while ago now. Doesn't mean android isn't as fast as ios, far from it, its just the UI experience
p.s. It wasn't my interview it was just one I found on the web that I was reading, think it was on engadget at some point.
kevinm2k said:
Maybe the playbook had the UI rewritten. I got my information from an interview with a lead android developer and they explained what I said above. Android was developed to compete with symbian and blackberry at the time then when iphone came out, android rushed it to market but at that point the UI was already flawed.
I'll try and find the source but it was from a while ago now. Doesn't mean android isn't as fast as ios, far from it, its just the UI experience
p.s. It wasn't my interview it was just one I found on the web that I was reading, think it was on engadget at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you come across it, please PM it to me. Sounds interesting.
Playbook is amazingly smooth even compared to my Prime.. anyways enough about that, not a RIM sales man lol.
Hoping ICS does take advantage of the 4 cores.
Found the article on google+ i'll paste the relevant bit here:
Going Forward
Android UI will never be completely smooth because of the design constraints I discussed at the beginning:
- UI rendering occurs on the main thread of an app
- UI rendering has normal priority
Even with a Galaxy Nexus, or the quad-core EeePad Transformer Prime, there is no way to guarantee a smooth frame rate if these two design constraints remain true. It’s telling that it takes the power of a Galaxy Nexus to approach the smoothness of a three year old iPhone. So why did the Android team design the rendering framework like this?
Work on Android started before the release of the iPhone, and at the time Android was designed to be a competitor to the Blackberry. The original Android prototype wasn’t a touch screen device. Android’s rendering trade-offs make sense for a keyboard and trackball device. When the iPhone came out, the Android team rushed to release a competitor product, but unfortunately it was too late to rewrite the UI framework.
This is the same reason why Windows Mobile 6.5, Blackberry OS, and Symbian have terrible touch screen performance. Like Android, they were not designed to prioritise UI rendering. Since the iPhone’s release, RIM, Microsoft, and Nokia have abandoned their mobile OS’s and started from scratch. Android is the only mobile OS left that existed pre-iPhone.
So, why doesn’t the Android team rewrite the rendering framework? I’ll let Romain Guy explain:
“...a lot of the work we have to do today is because of certain choices made years ago... ...having the UI thread handle animations is the biggest problem. We are working on other solutions to try to improve this (schedule drawing on vsync instead of block on vsync after drawing, possible use a separate rendering thread, etc.) An easy solution would of course to create a new UI toolkit but there are many downsides to this also.”
Romain doesn’t elaborate on what the downsides are, but it’s not difficult to speculate:
- All Apps would have to be re-written to support the new framework
- Android would need a legacy support mode for old apps
- Work on other Android features would be stalled while the new framework is developed
However, I believe the rewrite must happen, despite the downsides. As an aspiring product manager, I find Android’s lagginess absolutely unacceptable. It should be priority #1 for the Android team.
When the topic of Android comes up with both technical and nontechnical friends, I hear over and over that Android is laggy and slow. The reality is that Android can open apps and render web pages as fast or faster than iOS, but perception is everything. Fixing the UI lag will go a long way to repairing Android’s image.
Beyond the perception issue, lag is a violation of one of Google’s core philosophies. Google believes that things should be fast. That’s a driving philosophy behind Google Search, Gmail, and Chrome. It’s why Google created SPDY to improve on HTTP. It’s why Google builds tools to help websites optimize their site. It’s why Google runs it’s own CDN. It’s why Google Maps is rendered in WebGL. It’s why buffering on Youtube is something most of us remember, but rarely see anymore.
But perhaps the most salient reason why UI lag in Android is unacceptable comes from the field of Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). Modern touch screens imply an affordance language of 1 to 1 mapping between your finger and animations on the screen. This is why the iOS over-scroll (elastic band) effect is so cool, fun, and intuitive. And this is why the touch screens on Virgin America Flights are so frustrating: they are incredibly laggy, unresponsive, and imprecise.
A laggy UI breaks the core affordance language of a touch screen. The device no longer feels natural. It loses the magic. The user is pulled out of their interaction and must implicitly acknowledge they are using an imperfect computer simulation. I often get “lost” in an iPad, but I cringe when a Xoom stutters between home screens. The 200 million users of Android deserve better.
And I know they will have it eventually. The Android team is one of the most dedicated and talented development teams in the world. With stars like +Dianne Hackborn and +Romain Guy around, the Android rendering framework is in good hands.
I hope this post has reduced confusion surrounding Android lag. With some luck, Android 5.0 will bring the buttery-smooth Android we’ve all dreamed about since we first held an HTC G1. In the mean time, I’ll be in Redmond working my butt off trying to get a beautiful and smooth mobile OS some of the recognition it deserves.
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Source: https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
If you read the top of that article. He even admits he was wrong. His article was debunked by a google engineer. (There is a link to it in the post)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
kevinm2k said:
Found the article on google+ i'll paste the relevant bit here:
Source: https://plus.google.com/100838276097451809262/posts/VDkV9XaJRGS
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that was an excellent read. that was a nice history lesson on Android. Thanks!
edit: I read the Google engineer article that debunked this one before. A certain member here loves to always bring it up to help prove his point..lol
I still believe its true, it does kind of make sense when you think about it, plus google aren't really going to turn around and say "oh yes our UI is badly designed and needs to be re-written".
from my novice experience, the user interface performance seems fine. My first tablet so I don't have anything to base it off. It's about as quick as my old Core 2 XPS laptop running Windows 7.
It would be nice one day to have a buttery smooth experience though so hope ICS helps with the cause!
kevinm2k said:
It would be nice one day to have a buttery smooth experience though so hope ICS helps with the cause!
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I'm sure with ICS you will have an I Can't Believe It's Not Buttery experience.
With the ability to unlock the bootloader comes the ability to install custom roms which means smoothness.
I've seen that happening exactly like that on my phone.
ICS
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
geinome said:
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
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Well your in luck because Asus said they will roll out it starting on the 12th.
geinome said:
While on the subject and trying not to go to far from the OP. Have we got any ETA from ASUS themselves about when we can expect ICS on the Prime?
I get mine on the 12th of this month and dont want to spend too long with crappy Honeycomb.
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ICS comes out worldwide on the 12th January.