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I have a question about the 3D's dual core that I'd like more clarification on the vague answers I'm getting by searching this site and google. So I've read that the core is asynchronous so basically meaning the second core doesn't do much work unless needed as others like the tegra 2 and exynos have both cores running or something similar to that, and that this is affecting the benchmark scores. I also read that one would basically double the score of the 3D to get a more accurate reading. Can anyone confirm or further explain this?
Yes, asynchronous is when something operates on another thread whereas the main thread is still available for operating. This allows for better performance in terms of managing tasks. Now just because it doesn't score high on a benchmark, it doesn't mean it is going to perform. Also this allows for better performance for the battery.
I haven't slept for the past 12 hours so if this doesn't help you, just let me know and I will fully elaborate on how the processor will operate on the phone. Now time for bed :'(
In short, asynchronous operation means that a process operates independently of other processes.
Think of transferring a file. A separate thread will utilized for doing so. You will then be able to do background things such as playing with the UI, such as Sense since you will be using the main thread. If anything were to happen to the transferring file (such as it failing), you will be able to cancel it because it is independent on another thread.
I hope this makes sense man, kind of tired. Now I'm really going to bed.
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To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
donatom3 said:
To be more specific by asynchronous they mean that each core can run at different clock speeds. Core 1 could be at 1.2 ghz while core 2 is at 200 mhz. Most multi core processors are synchronous meaning all the cores are running at the same speed.
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^This too
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I was also very curious to learn a little more about the async cores and how it differes from a standard "Always-On" dual core arctechiure.
Thh first page/video I found talks about the SnapDragon core specifically.
http://socialtimes.com/dual-core-snapdragon-processor-qualcomm-soundbytes_b49063
From what I've gathered, it comes down to using the second core and thus more power, only when needed. Minimizing voltage and heat to preserve battery life.
The following video goes into similar and slightly deeper detail about the processor specifically found in the EVO 3D. The demo is running a processor benchmark with a visual real time usage of the two cores. You can briefly see how the two cores are trading off the workload between each other. It was previously mentioned somewhere else on this forum, but I believe by seperating a workload between two chips, the chip will use less power across the two chips vs putting the same workload on a sinlge chip. I'm sure someone else will chime in with some additional detail. Also, after seeing some of these demos, I'm inclined to think that the processor found in the EVO 3D is actually stable at 1.5 but has been underclocked to 1.2 to conserve battery. Only time spent within our hands will tell.
Another demo of the MSM8660 and Adreno 220 GPU found in the EVO 3D. Its crazy to think we've come this far for mobile phone technology.
What occurred to me is how complex Community ROMs for such a device may become with the addition of Video Drivers that may continue to be upgraded and improved (think early Video Card tweaks for PC). Wondering how easy/difficult it will be to get our hands on them, possibly through extraction of updated stock ROMs.
EDIT: As far as benchmarks are concerned, I blame the inability of today's bench marking apps to consider async cores or properly utilize them during testing to factor the over all score. Because the current tests are most likely to be spread across cores which favors efficiency, the scores are going to be much lower than what the true power and performance of the chips can produce. I think of it as putting a horsepower governor on a Ferrari.
thanks for the explanation everyone
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
Harfainx said:
The best demonstration is in the first video posted, notice when Charbax looks at the monitor. There on the top right are the frequencies of the two cores, and you'll notice the both of them jumping around a lot, independent of the other. Using the cores "on-demand" only when needed ends up saving a lot of battery power, but doesn't give you any performance loss.
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Actually I was thinking that not just the battery savings but there could be a performance gain. Think of this if the manufacturer knows they only have to clock one core up to speed when needed they can be more aggressive about their timings and have the core clock up faster than a normal dual core would since they know they don't have to clock up both processors when only one needs the full speed.
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
mevensen said:
I wonder if the drop to 1.2 GHz also serves to keep heat under control. It might not just be battery savings, maybe the small case of a phone doesn't allow for proper cooling to hit 1.5 safely.
I'd love to see some confirmation that the asynchronous nature of this chipset is what's responsible for the seemingly lackluster benchmarking.
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The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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RVDigital said:
The "horrible" benchmark scores are simply due to the tests inability to consider async core performance. Wait till the tests are able to take this into consideration.
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I went through all of your links, I didn't see anything that confirms that the benches are somehow affected by the asynchronous nature of the chipset. It's not that I don't believe you, I actually had that same theory when the benches first came out. I just don't have any proof or explanation of it. Do you have a link that provides more solid evidence that this is the case?
NVIDIA actually tells a different story (of course)
http://www.intomobile.com/2011/03/24/nvidia-tegra-2-outperforms-qualcomm-dualcore-1015/
AnandTech's article does explain some of the differences
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/...gra-2-review-the-first-dual-core-smartphone/4
It appears that Snapdragon (Scorpion) will excel in some tasks (FPU, non-bandwith constrained applications), but will fall short in others .
I'm pretty sure none of the benchmark apps have even been updated past the release of the sensation so yeah....How could they update the app to use the asynchronus processors the if the only phones to use them have only recently been released.
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I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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Yea, if someone were to develop an app for that. I do not see why not.
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Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
Maedhros said:
Hmm...
If a program such as Smart bench (which takes advantage of dual cores) is stressing both cores to 1.2ghz then regardless of if both cores are active or not the bench will be accurate.
I would rather NOT have asyncronus cores as there would be lag during frequency changes...
Ex:
2 cores running at 500mhz vs 1 core @ 1ghz and other not active.
The 2 cores will produce less heat and use less energy...
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There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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tyarbro13 said:
I had the G2x for like 3 days and never got to root. Poor service where I live. But could the cores be set to a specific frequency independently when rooted like computers?
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This is something that the hardware needs to be capable of. Software can only do so much. As far as I've seen Tegra isn't capable of it.
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
DDiaz007 said:
There dual, it would be better for them to run asynchronous. Not only that, but it is a phone so there will be no lag between frequency changing. 2 Cores running at 500mhz will perform better than 1 core at 1ghz.
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Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
nkd said:
I read the anandtech article and I came with conclusion that everyday task you might not see the difference between the two and while tegra2 might bench higher. The main thing people dont talk about is the GPU. Adreno 220 is a powerhouse GPU, it will probably stand strong when tegra 3 comes out.
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What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
Maedhros said:
Huh... what are u saying? Sorry dont understand... On one hand you say asynchronous is better and on the other ur saying 2 cores @ 500 will work better?
What?!?
Andreno 220 is a horrible GPU. AT BEST it is equal to the GPU in the Original SGS.
The reason benches are so different is because Qualcomm has made NO improvements in the CPU. Desire HD CPU is the same as Sensations. While... SGS2 + Tegra have IMPROVED CPUs.
Arm 7 vs arm 9?
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Dude go back to sleep. You have no clue what you are talking about.
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What's the best CPU monitoring app and are there any with quad core support?
Try CPU spy
theandies said:
What's the best CPU monitoring app and are there any with quad core support?
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SystemPanel App has quad core support.
In the dev area is a thread where you can download some files to OC your tablet & use the 1.5 and 1.6 speeds that come dormant and turned off & there is even more info on opening these you across all cores if you want a wicked fast battery eater.
It is all depending on your personal preference. Try systemTuner. you could freeze app with it.
System Tuner is not aware of the companion core.
I would like nVidia to provide a tool or "api" to monitor it.
Ok, I got one question... Is it ok to use max default cpu speed (if I'm not overclocked). 1024... Or should I put a lower amount...
Sorry for my bad English.
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As for me, 800 MhZ is enough for comfortable work.
Overclocking is needed only in "Heavy" games.
armando101 said:
Ok, I got one question... Is it ok to use max default cpu speed (if I'm not overclocked). 1024... Or should I put a lower amount...
Sorry for my bad English.
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1024Mhz is stock speed and yes its safe to use.
If you using your phone only for calling/sms...then 800Mhz is enough.
For calls you can eaven use 600 and if you have your rom rooted you can set the voltage a bit lower.
But from my experience you can easy use the 1 ghz freq and the battery lasts long if you don´t use much your phone.
Neo works fine at 1.4 ghz from performance and battery.
If you use sio i/o and lagfree.
Depending on your CPU you could undervolt it at 1ghz and achieve the same results as it is on 800mhz. But yeah 1ghz is efficient enough just stay away from Live Wallpapers.
i run on stock tweaked perfect battery live on 1024 Mhz
full perfermonce with no problems with antutu cpu master pro
3ig said:
Depending on your CPU you could undervolt it at 1ghz and achieve the same results as it is on 800mhz. But yeah 1ghz is efficient enough just stay away from Live Wallpapers.
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Even devices with 600-700mhz is browsing web, watching YouTube, have live wallpapers, playing music, record videos......and etc
So why not use our phones too 700mhz
Please guys don't forget...minimum CPU with rooted phones have 122mhz
If they work even so low frequency...why not 600mhz....or up.
Edit. I'm using 122-1300mhz, screenoff 122-567mhz smartass/all frequency voltages lowered -50mV.
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taaviu said:
Even devices with 600-700mhz is browsing web, watching YouTube, have live wallpapers, playing music, record videos......and etc
So why not use our phones too 700mhz
Please guys don't forget...minimum CPU with rooted phones have 122mhz
If they work even so low frequency...why not 600mhz....or up.
Edit. I'm using 122-1300mhz, screenoff 122-567mhz smartass/all frequency voltages lowered -50mV.
Sent from my MT15i using Tapatalk
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thanks bro for the tip to settle it low when screen is off, maybe thaT is more saving battery life, and i hit that button
is there any option to raise SGS3 CPU to 2000mhz or something like that?
EDIT: NEW AS 14/7
kk so i guess the highest and most stablest cpu might be till 1800mhz
1and what about ram? there is any overclocking for ram memory? (couldnt find anything about it)
2what about GPU?
not yet, i think the highest clock right now is 1.5 for the sgs3
and RAM, NO you can not get MORE ram, you can eliminate apps that eating up ram to free some up but no way to get more ram.
is there any need to overclock this beast lol its fast enough
the2rrell said:
not yet, i think the highest clock right now is 1.5 for the sgs3
and RAM, NO you can not get MORE ram, you can eliminate apps that eating up ram to free some up but no way to get more ram.
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He wasn't referring to getting more RAM though was he? It read to me that he wanted to see if was possible to increase the clock speed of the RAM along with the CPU.
yep just wondering if there is any option for that as in SGS1+2
do you guys think when there is OC for s3, it will raise CPU to 2000MHz ?
darixtorento said:
yep just wondering if there is any option for that as in SGS1+2
do you guys think when there is OC for s3, it will raise CPU to 2000MHz ?
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Already there OC/UV running 1500Mhz right now. Max 1800Mhz.
Look into de developers topics for the kernel..
Ive looked there.. stiil misunderstand something-
there is any OC of 2000mhz now?
Note that the Exynos 4Core CPU is still not very well understood and may well get long-time damage when ramping up the clock speed aggressively.
Is there actually ANY need for going so high except to show off?
You'll be measuring any speed improvement in loading things up in microseconds because people say Samsung still hasn't fully optimised the phone to the OS yet, so I think it's a bit pointless stressing the phone that much.
1.8GHZ is currently the max however with kmemhelper you should be able to change the last frequency to 2.0...
Hell I'll even find out the script for you if you are mad enough to try it first
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I doubt you'll get it 2GHz stable anyway. From what I've heard most people have theirs crap out at 1.8GHz.
kk so i guess the highest and most stablest cpu might be till 1800mhz
1and what about ram? there is any overclocking for ram memory? (couldnt find anything about it)
2what about GPU?
to make it clear:
i wanna know which ram overclocking is available to do on the SGS3 as long as the device still stables.
same with GPU and all those stuff.. there is a really good lvl of OC like in S1 S2?
still waiting for help
I would go for Siyah kernel and try 1.8 GHz then under volt using voltage control or extweaks app. Most phones can go 100 mv on all steps except maybe the very highest clocks.
gpu overclock is not possible yet
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OC of the ram is connected to bus speed and this is very different to the fixed bus in the sgs1 so nothing like live oc is possible. Still 400 mhz bus speed is 4 times faster than the CHAt!
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I`am running RGUI v7 rom and siyah kernel 1.3.8a. My clockspeed is 1600 Mhz and is rockstable, snappy and battery life is great.
I don`t go any higher for daily use, it doesn`t make much difference in speed and i think it cuts down your cpu-life.
ho so no LIVE OC is available now? (like in S1 and s2)?
well hoping it will be possible to add those functions(live oc, ram, cpu, and more..) in Android JB 4.1
My Captivate (SGS1) can hit 1.92GHz... So I think that a CPU with a stock clock of 1.4GHz can hit 2GHz easily. We will just have to see. I am not pushing this phone though. I don't have $700 to replace it.
well hoping it will be possible to add those functions(live oc, ram, cpu, and more..) in Android JB 4.1
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That's not depended on the ROM but on whether the hardware allows to modify the values and if kernel developers figure out how to do it.
i was messing aroud with voltage control and cpu spy and i noticed that the cpu speed was only topping out at like 1ghz these phones come with dual core 1.5 ghz correct? mine has never seen that high of a speed is there a reason or am i missing something? on my s2 it had a 1.2 dual core cpu i believe and it said how long each speed had seen action and i even bumped it up to like 1.4. im nervous to mess around with the speed if its already 1.5 i was just gonna set it to like 1.6 or something.but it seems mine is running each core at just 1ghz can anyone lend me some light on this.
You have Power Saving ON , that limits max cpu speed.
ahh thank you so much another question on spu spy it says unused cpu stats im guessing is 1.1 and 1.2 is there a reason they are unused? also just a guess but looks like i cant go any higher than 1.5 with voltage control? is there another app that lets me bump it up to like 1.6? or 1.7?
Don't worry about it , cpuspy doesn't have full history of your cpu activity, cpu clocks up and down depending on load.
CpuSpy is not very reliable from my experience.
You need to flash a different kernel that will allow you to over clock the cpu. Voltage control will allow you to do this but you need a kernel that will let you over clock first.
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ok thanks.