...
If you're rooted and haven't adequately covered your tracks, your warranty will be rejected. They will charge you.
There's no getting your money back.
On the positive side, you've learned your lesson about not covering your tracks. Im sure next time you'll ensure things like flash counters are kept reset etc
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...
1) like I wrote in general > sticky roll-up > understanding the basics before rooting, the eu law stands for nothing. As thousands of us Europeans will tell you, they WILL reject warranty if you're rooted (you're not the first believe it or not). The eu law says they must prove root broke the phone. They never bother. No one has got their money back.
I agree that they are hiding behind the root clause, however you yourself are hiding behind eu "law". Every rom thread (and the sticky threads here) tell you rooting voids warranty.
2) the idea is being prepared ahead of time. If you don't sort out covering your tracks whilst your phone is working, well then there's nothing you can do. Again, all this covered in the warranty section of general > sticky roll-up thread > understanding the basics before rooting
Do I think you got a bad deal? Yes. You and thousands of other people. However its well documented and a bit of reading in advance and it all could have been avoided
Its pointless to get angry. It wont help. There's nothing you can so. No avenue to help. Story ends.
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The other problem is Samsung did not sell you the phone. They sold it to a distributor or carrier who you then bought it from.
You might have made a claim if you sent it to the place of purchase.
...
ecozturk said:
Purchase place wouldn't even listen to my problem since their warranty time (1 year) was over. Samsung warranties 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung, however, is not legally obligated to give you a warranty. They offer a conditional 2 year warranty and really have the right to refuse to uphold it for any reason they please.
It sucks you had to pay when the rooting had nothing to do with the brick (I am assuming). What I am saying is even under EU law, Samsung has no obligation as they did not sell you the device.
Samsungs warranty is a limited warranty subject to the rules they decide to put in place .
One of which is root voids warranty custom roms void warranty .
This warning is plastered all over XDA .
Some place on the web is the service letter Samsung sent out to repair centres telling them what to look for regarding signs of rooting and custom roms . Since when Samsung have added indicators of such .
jje
...
I really don't know if i'll buy Samsung again... though i do not believe in perfect devices etc. everything can fail but i am expecting from the vendor and the producer to be at least a little bit honest.[/QUOTE]
Why when many customers are dishonest .
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ecozturk said:
Why when many customers are dishonest .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you meening i am dishonest in this case?
>>>I did not post any such thing .
Your first post was just ignorant of Samsungs warranty policies .
Being an industrial giant doesn't meen you're allowed to do whatever you want, and possibly break the law, just because you wrote whatever (abusive?) contract clause on a piece of paper. Or we would have billions of abusive clauses like this one... Too easy
>>Its not an abusive contract clause they broke no law .
You bought the phone your phone vendor is responsible not Samsung .
They may have broke a law by refusing warranty or not .
Samsung offer an extra limited warranty on top of your vendors warranty limited and up to them what restrictions they put on that policy .Dont like it then buy a product without this extra free warranty .
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ecozturk said:
JJE,
I perfectly know Samsung's warranty policies. And i knew them before rooting.
I don't know in which country you are, but here in France (and more generaly in EU), producers (not only vendors) must warranty their product for hardware failure for 2 years, undependantly of software matters. It is their minimum legal obligation. That's the law. End of story.
The limited warranty (!= legal warranty EVERY SINGLE producer must give) that Samsung "adds" to it's legal obligations can only widen the minimum legal warranty (e.g the 2 years against hardware failure) and it can NOT narrow it down with limitations of their choice.
The point is, when you say "Samsung offer an extra limited warranty on top of your vendors warranty", it is simply not true.
Samsung does not offer an extra warranty compared to what the law forces them to offer. On the contrary, their limited warranty narrows the law down.
Now, in my case, yes my phone was rooted and i didn't even try to deny it. I had never flashed any custom rom nor did i overclock it nor did anything that may have overloaded/overheated it. Just removed the simlock, that's all.
So, when 2 different pieces of hardware in the phone fall apart, one of those going down less than 10 days AFTER they took it in tech service once
+ considering the fact that it is a problem that several customers have had (sudden death + others) :
Can I, honestly, be expected to be nice, shut up and accept being extorted 99€ for a lousy hardware (at least in the case of the copy i got from stock) ?
Anyway, i could whine for hours like this
I contacted Samsung (and legal services who deal with such cases) in France. I'll keep the readers posted about what comes next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What a load of nonsense please bother to actually read the law and the EU law .
Samsung are not the vendor EU law does not apply fact to the extra warranty.
It is the vendor this EU law applies to not the manufacturer .
Really you have a idea that x is x fine i disagree and so far so does Samsung .
End
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Your beef then is with where you bought the device, not samsung. So you would have the same beef if you bought Nokia and they wouldn't hear you out
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Related
So I bought a GS3 in july last year from Dubai (and thought its the best thing happened to me) then moved to Germany to stay permanently, the phone was mostly used for Android app development and had a luxurious treatment and was rarely used for other than that and navigation!
And starting at December random red hues started appearing around the screen, then a couple of weeks later the blue led was blinking so I tried to unlock it but it wouldn't, then I removed the battery, and it never booted again, no single reaction!
The real problem is that Samsung Germany refused to fix the phone saying:
thank you for your request.
According to our terms of warranty only mobile phones distributed within the EU are entitled to free warranty repair in Germany. Therefore please contact the local Samsung support center in Dubai. Thank you for your unterstanding.
If you have any further questions please contact us.
Kind regards,
Viktoria Grün
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I don't unterstand is that the dealer in Dubai assured it has international warranty. and the whole thing makes no sense since its the same phone and it wasn't my fault, and going all the way to dubai would cost several times what the phone is worth and if I ever buy a new phone it wont be Samsung or android at all!
So I desperately searched the net for a way or hint to fix it, and found some main boards that cost almost or more than half the price with no warranty.
now I went back to use my old S1 which feels like a calculator compared to the S3, and I could cry whenever I see the S3 lying on the desk:crying:
any ideas?
Code:
Model: GT-19300 (16MB)
FCC ID: A2LGTI9300A
SSN: -I93000GSMH
MADE IN VIETNAM
if I ever buy a new phone it wont be Samsung or android at all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly do Samsung and Google have to do with misinformations provided by your seller?
What I don't unterstand is that the dealer in Dubai assured it has international warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's incorrect and a misinformation from your seller. US-customers also cannot have the i9300 fixed locally.
Just because the phone is called "international" does not mean it has international warranty.
. and the whole thing makes no sense since its the same phone and it wasn't my fault
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung Europe is not Samsung Asia, is not Samsung US, ...
They are different subcompanies of the same mother-company.
By the way; Samsung is not and never was under any obligation to fix your phone. The term warranty is usually used completelty incorrectly by customers.
Warranty is a voluntary offer by the seller or manufacturer to fix or replace a device and can have arbitrary conditions (such as location specific, only so many hours of usage, ...)
Guarantee on the other hand is ONLY provided by the seller (not the manufacturuer!) and it's definition is provided by the law of the country you buy the product in.
E.g. Most EU-countries have 2 years guarantee but you can still have only 1 year of warranty. Confusing...
Most manufacturers DO allow direct bring-in for 2 reasons;
1) customer service quality
2) they would get the device anyway through your seller so it does not make a huge difference
Multiple posts say it does not have an International warranty .
What I don't unterstand is that the dealer in Dubai assured it has international warranty.
The dealer is at fault nobody else .
The warranty as said is from the seller not Samsung .
Samsung's warranty is a secondary limited warranty .
Your warranty may well have been void anyway .
REF
phone was mostly used for Android app development .
tried to unlock it but it wouldn't,
if I ever buy a new phone it wont be Samsung or android at all!
Pointless posting here just to have a cry about Samsung users are never inclined to help in that situation .
jje
d4fseeker said:
What exactly do Samsung and Google have to do with misinformations provided by your seller?
That's incorrect and a misinformation from your seller. US-customers also cannot have the i9300 fixed locally.
Just because the phone is called "international" does not mean it has international warranty.
Samsung Europe is not Samsung Asia, is not Samsung US, ...
They are different subcompanies of the same mother-company.
By the way; Samsung is not and never was under any obligation to fix your phone. The term warranty is usually used completelty incorrectly by customers.
Warranty is a voluntary offer by the seller or manufacturer to fix or replace a device and can have arbitrary conditions (such as location specific, only so many hours of usage, ...)
Guarantee on the other hand is ONLY provided by the seller (not the manufacturuer!) and it's definition is provided by the law of the country you buy the product in.
E.g. Most EU-countries have 2 years guarantee but you can still have only 1 year of warranty. Confusing...
Most manufacturers DO allow direct bring-in for 2 reasons;
1) customer service quality
2) they would get the device anyway through your seller so it does not make a huge difference
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I am the biggset fan of Samasung since the S where all my electronics are samsung and I always recommended it to others, which is why I feel betrayed!
I think I'll try lumia 920 for now, nokia phones never failed me ... at least the old ones!
JJEgan said:
Your warranty may well have been void anyway .
REF
phone was mostly used for Android app development .
tried to unlock it but it wouldn't,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it was just used to test apps under underdevelopment, the phone was unlocked out of the box.
I had upgraded my old contract with 3 mobile (carrier) and got myself the Samsung Galaxy S3. It had just been about 4 months since I got the phone and I was happy with it. It was working perfectly with no issues or problems. On the 2nd of Feb 2013, I woke up in the morning to find that my phone had only 1% battery remaining. After making myself a cup of coffee, I got back to charge the phone but I found it had turned off due to low battery. I immediately plugged it in and after a few minutes I tried switching it on, but for some reason the phone wouldn't turn on. It would just go till the black and white screen showing the Samsung logo and then that was it. Thinking that it might have been drained of battery I decided to charge it till it showed 100% battery. After it got fully charged, I tried turning it on again, but the result was still the same. It wouldn’t move from the black and white screen showing the logo. At this point I realized that the problem was not something i could handle; I took it to the 3 mobile stores where I had originally purchased the phone from. The lady, whom I spoke to at the shop, did inspect my phone and tried to do a factory reset, but all that was of no use. After about 20 minutes I was told that I could drop it in for repairs by either posting it myself after getting into touch with the customer care team or I was told I could bring it back to the shop on Tuesday when they usually do pickups for repairs and send it from the shop. I chose to take it to the shop on Tuesday and have them send my phone to the repair centre. I was given the battery and back case for me to keep it with me and filled up a form for repairs and got told that they would get back to me in a weeks’ time.
Now here is where the problem starts...
Roughly after a week I got a letter sent to me by 3 mobile customer services. The content in the letter was...
"We are sorry to say there is evidence of unauthorized repair activity on your Samsung Galaxy S3. This suggests that the phone has been handled by a non- approved third party prior to receipt by our repair centre. As this invalidates your manufacturer's warranty we are unfortunately unable to progress with the repair."
I immediately phoned up customer services to let them know that I was not happy with these falls claims of a 3rd party trying to fix my phone. And they insisted that they cannot go against the decision of their engineer. And that they would not send such a letter through without thoroughly examining the phone. They person whom I was speaking to said that he had forwarded this to the complaints department and they will contact me within 48hrs.
The first thing I did when my phoned died was take it to the 3 store, knowing that I had 2 years warranty. I don’t see why I would want to pay a third person to fix my phone, when I can get it fixed for free by the 3 mobile.
The next day I got a call from this guy from 3 mobile who said he was a supervisor in the complaint handling department. I got told that their repair team believe that when they got my phone it was not in economic condition. And therefore they would not be able to carry on with repair. I kept on insisting that my phone has never been looked at by any unauthorized person. And I asked them to show me what proof they have to say that it was tampered with, to which they replied it could be anything, but they will not go against the decision of the engineer. I was told that they would return my phone to me so that I could give it somewhere else for repair and that they wouldn't replace my phone under any circumstances. I have told them to send me their statements in writing. As soon as I finished the call I went straight to the 3 store that I got my phone from. I spoke to the same guy, whom I had spoken to while handing my phone in for repairs and he said to me there is not much they can do at the store and the best thing I could do was to phone up customer care again and ask what proof they had to suggest that my phone got handled by a 3rd party.
I will be heading to citizens advice, hoping that they could help me in this matter. The fault that I had with my S3 seemed to be a common one , as I had read quite a few blogs and articles on it in the internet.
I just found out about this forum through a friend today. I hope there is someone here who can help me or give me suggestions on what to do.
Thnx
Search for "sds" you will find loads of info, precedence already set by Samsung, and nail those people with the CAB, they are your best bet, oh and ask the phone shop for an address to which you can send documentation as you wish to start legal proceedings...in short....You are in the right, you have faulty goods, they haven't provided you with any evidence to back up their claim you tampered with it....and point out that without dated photographic evidence they haven't got a leg to stand on.......basically harass the crap out of them and don't be afraid to go into that store and make enough noise to give them bad publicity, also tell them you are contacting local press!
They sold you the phone, they should replace it under the consumer act.simple.
Warranty from the store is not 2 years its standard twelve months .
Your claim is against the store not Samsung .
Separate limited Samsung warranty is two years .
The standard reply to this topic is that you need an engineers report yourself to disprove the sellers report .
If it is SDS then phone is repaired usually first case i have heard of rejected for the reasons you post .
TS may give you more advice but the basic is your word against the engineers diagnostics .
Do not as many have done with phone contracts and repairs stop paying the contract as al that happens is you still owe and get your credit record messed up .The phone is not part of the contract but an inducement to take out the contract .
jje
When i Phoned up 3 tech support to have my phone sent back to me.. the person whom I spoke to was able to give me a bit more details about what had actually happened. They claim that my phones software had been rooted and as a result their engineers( who were also trained by Samsung) could not access my phone . They said that it might have happened due to something malicious being installed on the phone or it might have happened when the phone had been plugged into the computer and a third party app being installed.
I don't really know much about phone software and routing. As far as I am aware, I haven't installed any malicious content on my phone , neither have I installed any 3rd party apps. All the additional apps on my phone had been downloaded from play store.
The guy from 3 tech support, told me that if 3 were to fix the issue, it would go over £200 and that my options were to either a) claim insurance ( which i don't have). b) have it send to Samsung, to check if they might have an different approach to the issue.
I ended up sending my phone to Samsung twice and here is what happened......
Over the past 1 month, I send my phone for repairs to Samsung twice and both times it got send back to me without being repaired.
The first time I send it for repairs; I got it back in 2 days. I was surprised that Samsung didn't fix my phone. They send be a letter along with my phone saying “That my phone had been tested with an RF test, which resulted in a pass, indicating that RF section of phone was not at fault. However, testing my handset with a live operator network failed as the network did not allow my handset to connect. They tried telling me that my phone had been blacklisted and network blocked by the provider. I was told to contact my provider for further details regarding this matter. It took 3 mobile a week to confirm that my phone had not been blocked or blacklisted at all.
I then contacted Samsung for a second time and told them that my network provider had confirmed with me that my phone was not blacklisted. My phone got send back to Samsung for the second time. I phoned them up on receiving a conformation text about my phone being delivered to Samsung. I did specifically tell them to keep me posted and to let me know before they send it back to me. Two days later I got a text saying that my phone will be delivered to me by 5pm that day. I quickly phoned up Samsung, hoping to hear that they had finally managed to fix my phone. But instead, I got transferred to the repair centre, who informed me that the phone had been sent back to me, but unfortunately could not be repaired as there was interference in the software. They told me that my phone was beyond economical repair and that I had to contact Samsung directly in order to get it fixed. I phoned up Samsung and made the aware that I was clearly unhappy with what was going on. Apparently the repair center that the phone was sent to does not deal with software related problems. So now they will send it to a different repair center (one that deals with software issues). But they also told me that it might have happened if the phone had been rooted and I clearly told them that I had done nothing to the phone. They went on to say that if the phone had been rooted, then there was nothing they could do, but if it hasn't been rooted, then it will be replaced. Personally I don't know how to root my phone. I have openly said that I'm not the best when it comes to such things as I have very little knowledge regarding such things. So even if Samsung were to tell me that they have found my phone to be rooted( which it clearly hasn't), I wouldn't know what to say to that.
I am waiting on Samsung to collect my phone from me now for the third time... Tbh I have lost all hope...
Would be nice to hear about what you guys think I should do nw. Thnx
Root is not a virus or trojan if its rooted its been flashed .
Root does not prevent access but it does void warranty .
interference in the software. >> really does not make sense as a service centre with software problems on a unit would just factory reset the phone ..
This saga smell like a second user phone that has been rooted and possible firmware changed . You have ended up with it from the store .
Presume you have no details of the firmware that was on the phone at point of sale .Nor your IMEI .
jje
I feel a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't really know that much about phone's software and firmware or any other stuff related to them.. But I think I may have the IMEI no. wid me. Are you suggesting that I may have been sold a second hand phone ?
If only i knew what exactly i needed to tell Samsung :crying:
Akhil John said:
I feel a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't really know that much about phone's software and firmware or any other stuff related to them.. But I think I may have the IMEI no. wid me. Are you suggesting that I may have been sold a second hand phone ?
If only i knew what exactly i needed to tell Samsung :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just suggesting its as a bit odd if its stock untouched and you have not rooted or modified the phone .
repair centre say rooted firmware modified IMEI blacklisted
If rooted is true then someone has carried out that task .
jje
Service provider 3 did confirm that the phone was not blacklisted . Would like to get any sort of advice on what steps I should be taking now with regards to contacting Samsung on further assessment and repairs.
JJEgan said:
Root is not a virus or trojan if its rooted its been flashed .
Root does not prevent access but it does void warranty .
interference in the software. >> really does not make sense as a service centre with software problems on a unit would just factory reset the phone ..
This saga smell like a second user phone that has been rooted and possible firmware changed . You have ended up with it from the store .
Presume you have no details of the firmware that was on the phone at point of sale .Nor your IMEI .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you not seen AdamOutler's explanation on why rooting doesn't void the warranty?
b-eock said:
Have you not seen AdamOutler's explanation on why rooting doesn't void the warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but i have also seen the Samsung letter that clearly states it voids warranty .
Plus i have yet to see one successful user report that Samsung accepted that root does not void warranty .
But the op has the choice of telling Samsung they are in the wrong even though presumably they have rejected as root is against their rules for the limited warranty .
jje
---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------
OP i think your best to find out why warranty is not valid.
If its root or custom rom the reason then use b-eok post / adam outler to argue that root does not invalidate your warranty.
If the phone is rooted and you have not rooted then contact the vendor as to why was it a returned phone or similar .
jje
The way things stand right now, Samsung have arranged my phone to be collected on Tuesday ( 23/03.2013) . But i am still confused as to what I should tell them in terms of what I think is the fault. I'd imagine that they would know the causes of SDS by default. I guess this is what happens to people who clearly don't know much about phones. :crying: The only update that I had done on my S3 was ICS to Jellybean.
Akhil John said:
The way things stand right now, Samsung have arranged my phone to be collected on Tuesday ( 23/03.2013) . But i am still confused as to what I should tell them in terms of what I think is the fault. I'd imagine that they would know the causes of SDS by default. I guess this is what happens to people who clearly don't know much about phones. :crying: The only update that I had done on my S3 was ICS to Jellybean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did you update it?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
notification came up saying jb update avaiable, so i went nd updated it.
My phones gonna be send to Samsung today. Can anyone suggest any points that i could mention to them in order for them to understand that, it was the phone being faulty and not me doing anything to it. Is true that SDS makes the phone appear to be rooted ( with Custom status being ) ?
If that is so, then how do I explain it to them?
Just say its dead and you suspect eMMC / motherboard failure
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
rootSU said:
Just say its dead and you suspect eMMC / motherboard failure
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers pal, will do.
There is a huge difference between warranty and limited warranty.
Basically the warrany is what your seller (not Samsung!!!) is required by law to provide and usually includes a phase (6months or so) where the seller has to prove you damaged the phone. claiming "rooting" as damaging the phone is btw not sufficient.
Limited warranty is optional and can have any restrictions the provider wants, including requiring you to sing karaoke on handstand every day and post it on Youtube. Limited warrany can be provided by anyone, but usually the manufacturer.
In short: ONLY deal with your carrier. Samsung has nothing to do with you and can charge / refuse repair unless they decide otherwise to provide customer service.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
d4fseeker said:
There is a huge difference between warranty and limited warranty.
Basically the warrany is what your seller (not Samsung!!!) is required by law to provide and usually includes a phase (6months or so) where the seller has to prove you damaged the phone. claiming "rooting" as damaging the phone is btw not sufficient.
Limited warranty is optional and can have any restrictions the provider wants, including requiring you to sing karaoke on handstand every day and post it on Youtube. Limited warrany can be provided by anyone, but usually the manufacturer.
In short: ONLY deal with your carrier. Samsung has nothing to do with you and can charge / refuse repair unless they decide otherwise to provide customer service.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the EU, if you can prove the fault is a manufacturing defect rather than user damage, Samsung would be breaking the law to refuse the warranty within a 2 year period of the device being purchased. It's the proof that is the hard part.
I would too always suggest going to the carrier first, but not for this reason. Simply so they have a log of your faults. However OP went to the carrier first and refused him under nonsense grounds. I do think that Offcom could make 3 UK evidence the nonesense they speak...
Got in touch with Samsung again. They said that the reason that the engineers haven't been able to fix it is because there is a software interference caused by installation of an unauthorized software. If this is the case, they said that the wouldn't touch the phone. But send it back just the way it was. I asked them to provide proof and I was told that the engineers would arrange photo's to be sent along with a letter, when they return the phone (clearly didnt make any sense to me). I got told that I could cross check with an individual repair center, to confirm about this so called unauthorized software.
Any suggestions on what I should do now? At this point of time i have clearly lost all hope that my phone will ever get fixed :crying:
Akhil John said:
Got in touch with Samsung again. They said that the reason that the engineers haven't been able to fix it is because there is a software interference caused by installation of an unauthorized software. If this is the case, they said that the wouldn't touch the phone. But send it back just the way it was. I asked them to provide proof and I was told that the engineers would arrange photo's to be sent along with a letter, when they return the phone (clearly didnt make any sense to me). I got told that I could cross check with an individual repair center, to confirm about this so called unauthorized software.
Any suggestions on what I should do now? At this point of time i have clearly lost all hope that my phone will ever get fixed :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the standard reason they give when voiding warranty due to root custom roms etc .
Samsung's warranty is not the same as a vendors liability / warranty and says Limited on the packet .
Go back a few posts and you are told that root does not void warranty so i would take that path of pointing out to Samsung that root is not a valid reason to refuse warranty ( though i think as its an extra limited warranty it is ).
Or likewise from the vendor make a claim via the courts if they refuse it under EU law .
Initially it is the vendors responsibility .
Take advice from what was Trading Standards via your local council as well .
jje
Today's smartphones are as good as PCs. Does using root on computers voids warranty? No!
Using root should/must not void warranty on Smartphones too.
Does rooting your device (e.g. an Android phone) and replacing its operating system with something else void your statutory warranty, if you are a consumer?
In short:
No.
Just the fact that you modified or changed the software of your device, is not a sufficient reason to void your statutory warranty. As long as you have bought the device as a consumer in the European Union.
A bit longer:
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
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Source : https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Sorry I thought I was in Note II forum
I'm going open a new thread there too but since this concerns all of us, it's up to mods to keep this one open.
It shouldn't but it does, even in the EU, OEM's successfully manage to deny warranty based on root.
Root on a Linux system is different to root on an android device though. You're not flashing firmware onto the motherboard of a linux PC and if you are, this is OEM provided anyway.
Once you have root on an android phone, you have acces to do so much more (which although root itself doesn't give you) enables you to flash teh radio stack and other partitions that if done incorrectly, can brick your phone.
If you flash an OEM BIOS on a PC, and it bricks it, they'll repair it because they provided what you flash on it. With Android, the development community works well outside the confines of the Android OS. Basebands, recoveries, bootloaders.
Can root itself break the phone? No. Should warranty be refused on the basis of root alone? No. If I have a faulty USB port, my root status is irrelevant.
However, as an OEM, I would like to be protected against people bricking their device through their own stupidity. I don't want to have to pay to give John Smith a new device because he flashed a Note 2 recovery on his S3.
So the middle ground should be... As an OEM if you are unable to provide evidence that root caused the failure - warranty not void. However, if you can prove the CPU was fried due to overclocking - warranty void!
rootSU said:
Can root itself break the phone? No. Should warranty be refused on the basis of root alone? No. If I have a faulty USB port, my root status is irrelevant.
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Exactly!!!
I'm OK with these incorrect flash procedures but they refuse everything including manufacturing faults. That's not fair!
Often two warranty's for a phone .
One the phone vendors warranty .
Two a manufacturers extra warranty ..
Samsung offer a limited 24 months warranty and unless they are the phone vendor i do not believe EU laws apply s to this extra warranty .
Where a user may be right in the EU claiming the phone vendor should honour the warranty on a rooted phone . The problem is compounded by the vendor sending the phone to Samsung for warranty repairs . Samsung then say it does not match our terms and conditions for warranty repairs .
But no matter how many users say the law says root is ok Samsung reply no and no user has yet stood up and challenged either the vendor or Samsung .
jje
Ok so ive read alot from the pro devs and people on the forums that unlocking your bootloader most "likely" wont void your warrenty esp. if you just relock it by restoring your TA backup and your carefull and clean about it but i have two problems with believing this. They are as fellows.
cant the sony apps just check for root and send a message
the service app knows if its unlocked and since youve entered your imei number to get your key again coulddnt sony send a message with your imei number
isnt the accounts linked between sony and google shared in the least which means the above questions can be passed on with google to sony
according to sony even if it doesnt void the warrenty that you agree to pay an additional repair fee for modified software.
Lets not beat around the bush and just say it would more than likly void your warrenty or at least have some cost. sorry if ive missread items on the forums but if i have read correctly or others have missunderstood as i may have hipefully this clears the air. Cause after all sony is company to make money but to make money they have to keep us happy so i am more than happy to admit i dont have a clue where it lies but i was about to unlock my boot loader when there was all these disclaimers which kinda scared me. my phones already rooted though so i may have already broken those disclaimers. END RANT.
Rooting is fine, as to my knowledge. It's unlocking the bootloader that you lose your "DRM" keys and thus lose warranty. But from what I've read, very few service centers check for that anyway. If all goes downhill, play the ignorance card and pretend that you do not know a thing about that. I'm fairly new to the whole rooting/unlocking scene and still learning, just as you. Also, from what I've been told, you have little to worry about if you have rooted/unlocked your phone.
As far as I understand you only have to pay if your issue is a software fault aka your fault not sonys. A hardware fault is a hardware fault irrelevant of software
I remember someone posting a thread about sony refused to service his phone without a charge for a hardware fault because of the bootloader was unlocked. That's in Australia tho. Not sure how somewhere else is like.
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jeremy.shi said:
I remember someone posting a thread about sony refused to service his phone without a charge for a hardware fault because of the bootloader was unlocked. That's in Australia tho. Not sure how somewhere else is like.
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That's about right. Australia's not the most customer service friendliest country to be in (with literally less than a handful of exceptions, and this is across ALL industries, be it hospitality or electronics.)
The usual immediate reaction to most warranty claims are "you've done something with the phone to cause this," followed be "prove you haven't done this and we'll accept it, unless we can prove the opposite."
Happening with me and my current phone (samsung s3,) which is why I'm on this neck of the woods with the forum as I'm looking or a new phone.
grungypoo said:
That's about right. Australia's not the most customer service friendliest country to be in (with literally less than a handful of exceptions, and this is across ALL industries, be it hospitality or electronics.)
The usual immediate reaction to most warranty claims are "you've done something with the phone to cause this," followed be "prove you haven't done this and we'll accept it, unless we can prove the opposite."
Happening with me and my current phone (samsung s3,) which is why I'm on this neck of the woods with the forum as I'm looking or a new phone.
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Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky. Shops in my suburb offer pretty good customer service. Those people over the phone from my bank, NAB, couldn't be friendlier...the time I had really bad customer service was with Vodafone, but they were not based in Australia. I guess that doesn't count.
Anyway, if after-sale service is what you are looking for, get a nexus from google play store. They are pretty much like Apple I heard. They send you a replacement if there's anything wrong and then you send your phone to them, but you have the get the phone from play store directly in order to get that kinda service. Otherwise, you will be stuck dealing with LG.
I have received really good customer service from Apple, but I guess most people here are mostly android fans.
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jeremy.shi said:
Well, I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky. Shops in my suburb offer pretty good customer service. Those people over the phone from my bank, NAB, couldn't be friendlier...the time I had really bad customer service was with Vodafone, but they were not based in Australia. I guess that doesn't count.
Anyway, if after-sale service is what you are looking for, get a nexus from google play store. They are pretty much like Apple I heard. They send you a replacement if there's anything wrong and then you send your phone to them, but you have the get the phone from play store directly in order to get that kinda service. Otherwise, you will be stuck dealing with LG.
I have received really good customer service from Apple, but I guess most people here are mostly android fans.
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Well I definitely think that Apple has their warranty service down to a tee.
I also think that Telstra's doing this too. What they're doing is creating an extra layer, where they just pretty much "accept" any errors, send it to warranty department to sort out and let you know what the result is. None of this "well, I think you're trying to screw the system, etc etc" talk.
Makes it alot easier. I was at the samsung experience shop and was told by someone who had no tech idea (in the tech/warranty support section, mind you) that I've tampered with the phone and there is no way it will be fixed under warranty, in an attempt to make me feel bad and walk away from trying to get a hardware error (power button,) fixed under warranty. When I tried to explain to them how the bootloader works and how you can reset the counter, they took it as an act of aggression and told me flat "no, you can hand it in but we'll know. Your risk."
I mean, there's no need for that as the phone's going to repair centre to get looked at but they just need to get that swipe in definitely doesn't help add to the customer service experience. But that's pretty much how it is for customer service in Australia.
grungypoo said:
Well I definitely think that Apple has their warranty service down to a tee.
I also think that Telstra's doing this too. What they're doing is creating an extra layer, where they just pretty much "accept" any errors, send it to warranty department to sort out and let you know what the result is. None of this "well, I think you're trying to screw the system, etc etc" talk.
Makes it alot easier. I was at the samsung experience shop and was told by someone who had no tech idea (in the tech/warranty support section, mind you) that I've tampered with the phone and there is no way it will be fixed under warranty, in an attempt to make me feel bad and walk away from trying to get a hardware error (power button,) fixed under warranty. When I tried to explain to them how the bootloader works and how you can reset the counter, they took it as an act of aggression and told me flat "no, you can hand it in but we'll know. Your risk."
I mean, there's no need for that as the phone's going to repair centre to get looked at but they just need to get that swipe in definitely doesn't help add to the customer service experience. But that's pretty much how it is for customer service in Australia.
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Saying about Telstra, just not long ago, a guy on WP posted something about their warranty policy. He said he was asked to sign a piece of paper to declare that if the fault was determined to be caused by the user, he would be charged for the service. I guess they just don't say it out loud to you. Instead, they ask you to sign a legal document that is pretty much an open cheque. However, I never had any personal experience with them. It's just what I read on the internet.
jeremy.shi said:
Saying about Telstra, just not long ago, a guy on WP posted something about their warranty policy. He said he was asked to sign a piece of paper to declare that if the fault was determined to be caused by the user, he would be charged for the service. I guess they just don't say it out loud to you. Instead, they ask you to sign a legal document that is pretty much an open cheque. However, I never had any personal experience with them. It's just what I read on the internet.
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Sounds about right, and that's pretty standard tho'.
I think it's better that way because the techs make the decision based only on the phone they see, not the person who has it.
The only part I'd have a problem with is if they charge people automatically as opposed to giving them a quote first. But then again it stops people from "trying to get it fixed under warranty," if you know what I mean.
In any case, I was at the Samsung shop again today and they guy asked questions about the phone. At first the phone seemed like everything was working, which embarrassed me and had the guy asking if I got the phone wet, but then it started bootlooping, so they swapped it for another phone. I'm still looking at getting a z2 tho'.
hey thanks for the info but has anyone had any reports for hardfaults directly with sony becuase sonys websites say there may be a charge just for unlocking it but they arnt clear?
Why would one unlock the boot loader?
firecard said:
Why would one unlock the boot loader?
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To install a custom ROM.
grungypoo said:
Sounds about right, and that's pretty standard tho'.
I think it's better that way because the techs make the decision based only on the phone they see, not the person who has it.
The only part I'd have a problem with is if they charge people automatically as opposed to giving them a quote first. But then again it stops people from "trying to get it fixed under warranty," if you know what I mean.
In any case, I was at the Samsung shop again today and they guy asked questions about the phone. At first the phone seemed like everything was working, which embarrassed me and had the guy asking if I got the phone wet, but then it started bootlooping, so they swapped it for another phone. I'm still looking at getting a z2 tho'.
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I went to Telstra today to get my phone fixed as Sony advised me that the issue I had was likely to be a hardware problem. It went really well. He did play around with it a bit and verified the problem. He said I would get a brand new unit within a week and he didn't ask me to sign anything. Hopefully I can get my hands on a perfect one soon.
You didn't sign anything? So basically there's no official record of them taking your phone, hopefully all goes well but if not your screwed :-/
Hmm... did he even fill anything in on the computer systems?
Hopefully you remember the guy's name and when you came in if it goes awry.
I was reading through the agreement you have to accept in order to unlock your phone, you know, so you can actually own your own device, and it has this little bit:
"BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID."
As far as I know, voiding the phone hardware warranty is not legal for a company to do. Can someone clarify? How can they get away with such an obviously anti-owner policy?
Every electronics manufacturer does this. In your case, every phone company. What makes you think there is a law that forces business to strict warranty regulations? They can do whatever they want, they don't even need to provide a warranty in the 1st place. They can write whatever they want in the agreement to void your warranty, perhaps if they find pictures of cats on your phone?
For example, Nintendo voids your warranty for any firmware changes to their gaming system. They also give themselves the right to brick your system at any time
Out Of Code said:
What makes you think there is a law that forces business to strict warranty regulations?
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This explains it pretty well:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/jailbreaking-iphone-rooting-android-does-not-void-warranty
xamindar said:
This explains it pretty well:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/jailbreaking-iphone-rooting-android-does-not-void-warranty
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So you are still screwed...
In the UK don't know about the rest of the world, if you have an issue with a device the manufacturer has to prove that any modifications you make are the reason your having an issue or your warranty stands...
wakers said:
In the UK don't know about the rest of the world, if you have an issue with a device the manufacturer has to prove that any modifications you make are the reason your having an issue or your warranty stands...
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I think that's largely an EU (not just UK) thing. Not so in the US, unfortunately.
In EU that quote is invalid.
mkiller88 said:
In EU that quote is invalid.
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Is this no longer valid, then? AFAIK, this directive is still in effect. Granted, they (OEMs) may very well tell you to take them to court if you call them on it because they know you won't do it, but there is anecdotal evidence (some even on XDA) of OEMs giving in rather than go on record saying they will refuse to abide by the directive.
http://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
As for the OP, there's this on the Lenovo / Moto forums indicating that Moto will in fact honor the warranty - despite it showing as voided - as long as it's a hardware failure that they cannot trace back to anything the user has done: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-X...-re-Warranty-for-Pure-Style/m-p/3202233#M5570
It's true that it's a MXPE thread, but I don't see why it would be any different for the Moto Z.
Thank you for that info rczrider, that is perfect. It's a shame their warning states it is not covered at all which is not true. An attempt to stop some from unlocking it I assume. But I just can't stand having a phone that I am not the admin of so having root is a requirement for me.
xamindar said:
I was reading through the agreement you have to accept in order to unlock your phone, you know, so you can actually own your own device, and it has this little bit:
"BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID."
As far as I know, voiding the phone hardware warranty is not legal for a company to do. Can someone clarify? How can they get away with such an obviously anti-owner policy?
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for some electronic devices, all you need is to break a small sticker to void the warranty. how's about that?
spiderx_mm said:
for some electronic devices, all you need is to break a small sticker to void the warranty. how's about that?
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If I did that then yes, I would expect Motorola to void my hardware warranty. But I have not done this and this is the whole reason I am saying they should not be legal to void it based simply on installing an OS upgrade.
Implied Warranty
rczrider said:
I think that's largely an EU (not just UK) thing. Not so in the US, unfortunately.
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I consider the documents (agreements) that you accept when you click "okay" on the Motorola website to likely be contrary to warranty laws in Canada. But, once you click "okay", you better have legal counsel if you want to drag it all the way to the courts.
Better off to talk directly to Motorola and explain your problem. I have not had to do this yet but I do believe Motorola is still in business to please customers and developers.
Problem is finding out a contact to talk to. You might have to contact Lenovo.