I was reading through the agreement you have to accept in order to unlock your phone, you know, so you can actually own your own device, and it has this little bit:
"BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID."
As far as I know, voiding the phone hardware warranty is not legal for a company to do. Can someone clarify? How can they get away with such an obviously anti-owner policy?
Every electronics manufacturer does this. In your case, every phone company. What makes you think there is a law that forces business to strict warranty regulations? They can do whatever they want, they don't even need to provide a warranty in the 1st place. They can write whatever they want in the agreement to void your warranty, perhaps if they find pictures of cats on your phone?
For example, Nintendo voids your warranty for any firmware changes to their gaming system. They also give themselves the right to brick your system at any time
Out Of Code said:
What makes you think there is a law that forces business to strict warranty regulations?
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This explains it pretty well:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/jailbreaking-iphone-rooting-android-does-not-void-warranty
xamindar said:
This explains it pretty well:
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/jailbreaking-iphone-rooting-android-does-not-void-warranty
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So you are still screwed...
In the UK don't know about the rest of the world, if you have an issue with a device the manufacturer has to prove that any modifications you make are the reason your having an issue or your warranty stands...
wakers said:
In the UK don't know about the rest of the world, if you have an issue with a device the manufacturer has to prove that any modifications you make are the reason your having an issue or your warranty stands...
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I think that's largely an EU (not just UK) thing. Not so in the US, unfortunately.
In EU that quote is invalid.
mkiller88 said:
In EU that quote is invalid.
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Is this no longer valid, then? AFAIK, this directive is still in effect. Granted, they (OEMs) may very well tell you to take them to court if you call them on it because they know you won't do it, but there is anecdotal evidence (some even on XDA) of OEMs giving in rather than go on record saying they will refuse to abide by the directive.
http://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
As for the OP, there's this on the Lenovo / Moto forums indicating that Moto will in fact honor the warranty - despite it showing as voided - as long as it's a hardware failure that they cannot trace back to anything the user has done: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Moto-X...-re-Warranty-for-Pure-Style/m-p/3202233#M5570
It's true that it's a MXPE thread, but I don't see why it would be any different for the Moto Z.
Thank you for that info rczrider, that is perfect. It's a shame their warning states it is not covered at all which is not true. An attempt to stop some from unlocking it I assume. But I just can't stand having a phone that I am not the admin of so having root is a requirement for me.
xamindar said:
I was reading through the agreement you have to accept in order to unlock your phone, you know, so you can actually own your own device, and it has this little bit:
"BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID."
As far as I know, voiding the phone hardware warranty is not legal for a company to do. Can someone clarify? How can they get away with such an obviously anti-owner policy?
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Click to collapse
for some electronic devices, all you need is to break a small sticker to void the warranty. how's about that?
spiderx_mm said:
for some electronic devices, all you need is to break a small sticker to void the warranty. how's about that?
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If I did that then yes, I would expect Motorola to void my hardware warranty. But I have not done this and this is the whole reason I am saying they should not be legal to void it based simply on installing an OS upgrade.
Implied Warranty
rczrider said:
I think that's largely an EU (not just UK) thing. Not so in the US, unfortunately.
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I consider the documents (agreements) that you accept when you click "okay" on the Motorola website to likely be contrary to warranty laws in Canada. But, once you click "okay", you better have legal counsel if you want to drag it all the way to the courts.
Better off to talk directly to Motorola and explain your problem. I have not had to do this yet but I do believe Motorola is still in business to please customers and developers.
Problem is finding out a contact to talk to. You might have to contact Lenovo.
Related
I have seen about one hundred posts warning ominously about HTC's unlock voiding the warranty but it appears that no one has really given any thought to the legality of such an action.
This is not about whether rooting will void the warranty. That has always been true if the rooting was somehow non-reversible.
The concern voiced by many is that the unlock will trip a write-once type indicator in the hardware that will permanently watermark the phone as being unlocked. (such as the proverbial blown fuse.)
My analysis is:
HTC cannot push an OTA to every Evo3D unlocking the bootloader that will void warranties. Even if it were optional, the uninformed masses would, of course, accept the update without a second thought. (There is also no setup in the OTA updating system (to my knowledge) for giving warnings about voiding warranties or the like.)
I haven't looked into the details of what jurisdiction governs the warranty contracts on the Evo3D but I am sure there is some prohibition against sneaky ways of voiding the warranty by the manufacturer.
Many have thrown around the idea of a class action suit over the failure of HTC to (at this time) live up to the CEO's promise of unlocking the bootloaders. Such an class action would not likely succeed. However, if the manufacturer pushed an OTA update that voided all Evo 3D warranties, that would probably be a class action worth pursuing.
Further, I do not believe that an non-OTA unlock update that voided warranties would be allowed even if HTC only published the update on the HTC website with explicit warnings about voiding warranties if applied.
HTC would have a very hard time justifying why their own software update should void HTC's warranty on the software and hardware of HTC's own phone.
However, if the warranty contracts are controlled by some off the wall legal jurisdiction, I could be wrong.
(Added at 10AM CT 20110701)
One other thing that just crossed my mind.
To have such a permanent watermarking function at hardware level, HTC would have had to have planned this from development.
The encrypted bootloaders were to be permanent until the policy was changed May 26 (or so).
For HTC to add a write once indicator at that time, they would have had to tear every phone apart and retool the manufacturing line. This seems unlikely.
The only other way they could do this is if the phone was designed with (at that time) unnecessary write once indicators just in case they were needed.
This would be possible but. . . . is it likely?
Any other thoughts?
No lol
novanosis85 said:
No lol
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Okay, that's hilarious. Your pic is Chou flipping the customers off and you still trust HTC.
Man, you're one big ball of contradictions aren't you...
(please note, I am starting a flame war with you, I am only joking)
My personal opinion is that HTC has lost a little credibility but . . .
I don't think they are that stupid.
Them unlocking the Evo 3D won't void the warranty any more than them just doing a regular update for bugs. It's rooting that will void the warranty. While it is completely legal to root, the manufacturer does not have to honor their warranty if you do.
Is this real? If HTC unlocks their phone, it voids their warranty? Can we get an aptitude test for registration to this site?
If you are asking if it will void the warranty for XDA to unlock it, unlikely. Never been an issue in the past. I think rooting a device in the US has been deemed 100% legal too. I am not about to search it to find out.
3rd. HTC does little of their own warranty work. Meaning, most phones are covered by Sprint TEP/Assurion. When Sprint or Assurion sends them back you already have a new phone and they don't care who had it. The only time you ACTUALLY use your HTC warranty is if a manufacturer defect affects your phone within the first year and you don't have TEP. Then you send them your device and they will fix it. You get NO loaner phone in the process, so most people don't go this route.
Jye75 said:
Them unlocking the Evo 3D won't void the warranty any more than them just doing a regular update for bugs. It's rooting that will void the warranty. While it is completely legal to root, the manufacturer does not have to honor their warranty if you do.
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This is not about whether rooting will void the warranty. That has always been true if the rooting was somehow non-reversible.
The concern voiced by many is that the unlock will trip a write-once type indicator in the hardware that will permanently watermark the phone as being unlocked. (such as the proverbial blown fuse.)
I will update my original post to address this misunderstanding.
ls3mach said:
Is this real? If HTC unlocks their phone, it voids their warranty? Can we get an aptitude test for registration to this site?
If you are asking if it will void the warranty for XDA to unlock it, unlikely. Never been an issue in the past. I think rooting a device in the US has been deemed 100% legal too. I am not about to search it to find out.
3rd. HTC does little of their own warranty work. Meaning, most phones are covered by Sprint TEP/Assurion. When Sprint or Assurion sends them back you already have a new phone and they don't care who had it. The only time you ACTUALLY use your HTC warranty is if a manufacturer defect affects your phone within the first year and you don't have TEP. Then you send them your device and they will fix it. You get NO loaner phone in the process, so most people don't go this route.
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Did you read my original post? Did you look at the current poll results?
Please do before you basically ignore the point of the thread?
I was trying to quell fears. However, there are many who seem worried about this.
Also, TEP costs MONEY.
Warranty returns, such as when the USB port fails, do not. The concern is that if a USB port failed and you had applied the unlock, HTC would say that the warranty is void because you unlocked the phone using their update.
I do not think the OTA will actually unlock the phone as 95% of the people don't need it. Only a small portion of the people actually want to unlock the phone. I think the update will push the necessary internal files to the phone allowing people to run a tool that unlocks the phone. This tool will probably give a warning about voiding the warranty, and make you accept it before actually unlocking it. Then making the necessary changes to mark your phone as unlocked.
ls3mach said:
Is this real? If HTC unlocks their phone, it voids their warranty? Can we get an aptitude test for registration to this site?
If you are asking if it will void the warranty for XDA to unlock it, unlikely. Never been an issue in the past. I think rooting a device in the US has been deemed 100% legal too. I am not about to search it to find out.
3rd. HTC does little of their own warranty work. Meaning, most phones are covered by Sprint TEP/Assurion. When Sprint or Assurion sends them back you already have a new phone and they don't care who had it. The only time you ACTUALLY use your HTC warranty is if a manufacturer defect affects your phone within the first year and you don't have TEP. Then you send them your device and they will fix it. You get NO loaner phone in the process, so most people don't go this route.
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there are theories flaoting around that HTC may try to "watermark" phones that take the unlock OTA so that it voids the manufacturers warranty.. yes to some of us it sounds crazy, but apparently it is very serious to some people.. and rooting is not illegal, but still does void the warranty.. thats why most devs have disclosures on the things they do that is custom or creates root.. you do this at your own risk, voids warranty, yada yada.. no hate to you sir, but this has been a concern for a while now..
i personally dont think that it would void the warranty, but then again who am i..
ftc_osiris said:
This is not about whether rooting will void the warranty. That has always been true if the rooting was somehow non-reversible.
The concern voiced by many is that the unlock will trip a write-once type indicator in the hardware that will permanently watermark the phone as being unlocked. (such as the proverbial blown fuse.)
I will update my original post to address this misunderstanding.
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Click to collapse
Ah, I see. Well, I suppose in that case, my answer to the poll would be that I trust them since it was publicly announced that they would unlock their bootloaders, effectively rendering any backlash from them about it voiding the warranty - a good case for a class action lawsuit, should it come up.
Jye75 said:
Them unlocking the Evo 3D won't void the warranty any more than them just doing a regular update for bugs. It's rooting that will void the warranty. While it is completely legal to root, the manufacturer does not have to honor their warranty if you do.
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archos did this. your device would be watermarked and void your warranty.
how 'bout a 4rth option in the poll - i'd gladly give up my warranty for root.
as someone mentioned, seems it would be pretty crazy for HTC to give us an update,that would void the warranty, to their own phone they make. I see no logic in that whatsoever
I'm going to void the warranty by rooting anyway, don't care.
madsquabbles said:
archos did this. your device would be watermarked and void your warranty.
how 'bout a 4rth option in the poll - i'd gladly give up my warranty for root.
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Prior to HTC unlocking their future devices, I can understand that. After they push an OTA (if they do) then I can't see it voiding the warranty. They'd probably put out a bulletin of sorts to their repair centers and affiliates that allows for warranty repair of a phone that was "watermarked" as being unlocked.
davec1234 said:
I'm going to void the warranty by rooting anyway, don't care.
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me too.. me too
oh and can i change my vote??? i really think HTC is the devil..
jdub01984 said:
I do not think the OTA will actually unlock the phone as 95% of the people don't need it. Only a small portion of the people actually want to unlock the phone. I think the update will push the necessary internal files to the phone allowing people to run a tool that unlocks the phone. This tool will probably give a warning about voiding the warranty, and make you accept it before actually unlocking it. Then making the necessary changes to mark your phone as unlocked.
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I understand your theory, but again, I don't think that many jurisdictions would allow them to have such a voiding.
This is not the same as voiding the warranty by using OEM overclocking software. (I think that some board/CPU manufacturers provide software with the understanding that if you burn it out by O/Cing, the warranty will not cover it)
This is a unlock of encryption that would really just take us back to an unrooted Evo 4G.
I could be wrong but I don't really think that the CEO's promise even implied S-OFF.
I think that the only thing he promised was that the bootloader would no longer use encrypted signatures.
Thus, we would have an S-ON setup just like on the Evo 4G fresh out of the box.
Of course, with the rooting method by the brilliant devs in TEAMWIN, we could then get S-OFF by loading the ENG bootloader (I think).
madsquabbles said:
archos did this. your device would be watermarked and void your warranty.
how 'bout a 4rth option in the poll - i'd gladly give up my warranty for root.
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What do you mean Archos did this?
They pushed an OTA update that voided warranties by permanently watermarking phones as having been updated?
ftc_osiris said:
I understand your theory, but again, I don't think that many jurisdictions would allow them to have such a voiding.
This is not the same as voiding the warranty by using OEM overclocking software. (I think that some board/CPU manufacturers provide software with the understanding that if you burn it out by O/Cing, the warranty will not cover it)
This is a unlock of encryption that would really just take us back to an unrooted Evo 4G.
I could be wrong but I don't really think that the CEO's promise even implied S-OFF.
I think that the only thing he promised was that the bootloader would no longer use encrypted signatures.
Thus, we would have an S-ON setup just like on the Evo 4G fresh out of the box.
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The nexus S ships with a locked bootloader. You have to manually run a command to unlock it, and it tells you during the process that it voids your warranty. I would assume that will be the case for this update, as the vast majority of people do not require the bootloader to be unlocked.
jdub01984 said:
The nexus S ships with a locked bootloader. You have to manually run a command to unlock it, and it tells you during the process that it voids your warranty. I would assume that will be the case for this update, as the vast majority of people do not require the bootloader to be unlocked.
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Does it permanently watermark the phone or can the unlocking (and voiding) be reversed?
Okay there is some crazy talk going on in here guys.
HTC pushing an update that unlocks your phone and in turn voids your warranty? Come on get real fellas.
The talk about the update voiding your warranty isn't the update itself doing the void BUT the unlock voiding your warranty. They wont send an OTA to sit there for everyone and people would DL the OTA and their phone would be unlocked just like that. The OTA that would be sent out would ALLOW you to unlock your phone on your own, NOT unlock it for you.
The thought is that HTC will do something like Moto is where when the USER goes into the bootloader and chooses to unlock their device it will mark the phone as voiding its warranty. ONLY then will the phones warranty be voided, NOT for just taking the OTA that enables the function.
Now relocking and being able to have your phone serviced under warranty is all speculation as to if thats possible and if its not then itd be up to the devs to create a workaround for it. Not sure how the Moto devs have handeled this part personally though.
In short the Unlocking and the OTA will be 2 seperate tasks. You take the OTA update, then you have the ability to unlock your phone if you want. If you dont want to unlock then you still have warranty. Again accepting the OTA they push out wont automatically unlock all the phones, itll just give you the ability to do it on your own after.
So verizon got with htc and added the rezound to there htcdev unlock tool. which is def a win for us but from what a friend who used this with his evo3d on sprint just informed me. is that as soon as you use this tool your device esn is red flag by htc then sent to carrier and all insurance coverage is permanently voided. so if you used this tool and have insurance you might as well cancel it.
so now that this tool has hit for our devices. would it be safe to assume that some dev or devs will be working on a method that unlocks the device without flagging your esn or making the bootloader say relocked if you choose to go back to locked and will this make it easier to achieve S-off .
this is just some info i got from one person who has sprint and did this please correct if this is wrong.
Hopefully not.
Insurance can't be entirely voided. Besides, that is hearsay. Until you can show me that in writing, I don't believe it. I'm sure it voids mechanical problems or software issues but if my phone gets lost... I'm covered. Until you can prove it, everyone needs to just calm down and don't let speculation get out of control.
Sent from my newly unlocked Rezound.. Thank you HTC.
Htc/dev has already said when you use the unlocker you void your warranty and any support from htc. And when you use the unlocker You know that info goes to VZW .
Peter Chou said if you use the unlocker you lose your warranty.
Sent from my HTC
LTE 4G Rezound
You warranty is voided upon unlocking the bootloader. I really doubt they can just nullify the insurance in which you pay for a replacement.
you can think whatever you want im just relaying info from my friend who only found this out because he dropped his 3d and cracked the screen when he went to get it fixed thats what they told him after they said they couldnt fix it idk how it is on verizon i suppose u could ask them but ill bet its the same
brandonkill02 said:
you can think whatever you want im just relaying info from my friend who only found this out because he dropped his 3d and cracked the screen when he went to get it fixed thats what they told him after they said they couldnt fix it idk how it is on verizon i suppose u could ask them but ill bet its the same
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he had to replace his 3d with best buys black tie also i found all this out because i called him to ask him how hard it was to do on his 3d and he told me not to do it
This is exactly why I've waited to unlock my device. Not like there's even anything to flash yet.
Sleek69 said:
This is exactly why I've waited to unlock my device. Not like there's even anything to flash yet.
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agree i just thought id give a heads up to people who got excited about this maybe help save someone a headache
So just say you lost it. Problem solved.
Your friend was lied to by sprint, or he didn't really have insurance. I am on the 3d and have spoken with numerous sprint employees and know a couple people who unlocked with htc and used the insurance to fix their phone from dropping it and what not. It does void the warranty, but not the insurance. But s-off voids your warranty, always has, this isn't different. HTC states it just like it's been stated by devs over the years, you do this at your own risk.
____________________
Trolls, trolls everywhere
I don't think there is any douchebaggery here. We void warranties. That's what we do. Buy insurance from an outside source that is willing to accept software modification. Dunno if squaretrade does, but probably.
pstevep said:
Your friend was lied to by sprint, or he didn't really have insurance. I am on the 3d and have spoken with numerous sprint employees and know a couple people who unlocked with htc and used the insurance to fix their phone from dropping it and what not. It does void the warranty, but not the insurance. But s-off voids your warranty, always has, this isn't different. HTC states it just like it's been stated by devs over the years, you do this at your own risk.
____________________
Trolls, trolls everywhere
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Exactly. this needs to be locked/deleted ASAP before people start freaking out over nothing!
Just stop for a second and think about it, you can get your unlock key without actually unlocking your phone right? Right. So from that point you do whatever it is that you do with the key, throw it in a zip file, put it on a storage drive, delete it, whatever really...the only way Verizon or HTC could know that you actually did use the unlock key would be if you foolishly sent it back in a "unlocked" or "relocked" state. Besides would you really think a company would waste the resources or manpower to pass along a "red flag" to your carrier who would then in turn, go through every account associated and adjust coverage or call customers and ask if they used the key, get real. Furthermore "insurance" like Asurion covers for lost/stolen/damage, and has absolutely nothing to do with warranty. The only thing that happens when you use that tool is that you get a unlock .bin file, if you flash it then yes your hardware warranty is technically void(IF someone could prove it), that's it...period.
From HTCDev:
It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.
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Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader.
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It doesn't even void your warranty. It just voids parts of it that could be caused by you being a dumb-ass.
If something breaks non related to something you could have done with an unlocked boot-loader, it cant be taken away. Even more so, Verizon can NOT cancel something and still keep taking money for it with zero notification. It's very, very illegal.
Vashypooh said:
It doesn't even void your warranty. It just voids parts of it that could be caused by you being a dumb-ass.
If something breaks non related to something you could have done with an unlocked boot-loader, it cant be taken away. Even more so, Verizon can NOT cancel something and still keep taking money for it with zero notification. It's very, very illegal.
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definitely the truth there
Vashypooh said:
From HTCDev:
It doesn't even void your warranty. It just voids parts of it that could be caused by you being a dumb-ass.
If something breaks non related to something you could have done with an unlocked boot-loader, it cant be taken away. Even more so, Verizon can NOT cancel something and still keep taking money for it with zero notification. It's very, very illegal.
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Click to collapse
I don't know a lot about cell phone companies and warranties. If it is anything like car manufacturer warranties, and I have a feeling it is, then by law the company has to prove the "mod"(sorry car slang) caused the failure to deny warranty service. And this is by law.
Sax1031 said:
I don't know a lot about cell phone companies and warranties. If it is anything like car manufacturer warranties, and I have a feeling it is, then by law the company has to prove the "mod"(sorry car slang) caused the failure to deny warranty service. And this is by law.
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yep, I mean if you change your intake and then you suck up water because the air filter is in the front bumper in a flood, sure it's void, but if your alternator goes bad, it's covered.
this is just some info i got from one person who has sprint and did this please correct if this is wrong.
im pretty sure i said that^ in the main post it was just something interesting i thought others should know also it wouldnt shock me if they made you jump through hoops because of this if you did crack the screen and they saw your device was flagged and why couldnt they flag it computers can send and input the date changes automatically its not like our esns are stored in a file cabinet do you think that they wouldnt have a software to make these changes for them ...im not saying this is what happens again this is based on one persons experience that i know personally so idk why your tripping out
brandonkill02 said:
this is just some info i got from one person who has sprint and did this please correct if this is wrong.
im pretty sure i said that^ in the main post it was just something interesting i thought others should know also it wouldnt shock me if they made you jump through hoops because of this if you did crack the screen and they saw your device was flagged and why couldnt they flag it computers can send and input the date changes automatically its not like our esns are stored in a file cabinet do you think that they wouldnt have a software to make these changes for them ...im not saying this is what happens again this is based on one persons experience that i know personally so idk why your tripping out
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it's nothing personal, but people will just read the thread title and the first post and freak out, because they don't think, that's why the response was a little, harsh
PhantomApollyon said:
it's nothing personal, but people will just read the thread title and the first post and freak out, because they don't think, that's why the response was a little, harsh
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ok i understand what your saying. you are correct people dont do research as they should before they do or dont do things to the devices. and they dont read all the entire thread like some of us. so my bad if i made the title to broad
Today's smartphones are as good as PCs. Does using root on computers voids warranty? No!
Using root should/must not void warranty on Smartphones too.
Does rooting your device (e.g. an Android phone) and replacing its operating system with something else void your statutory warranty, if you are a consumer?
In short:
No.
Just the fact that you modified or changed the software of your device, is not a sufficient reason to void your statutory warranty. As long as you have bought the device as a consumer in the European Union.
A bit longer:
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source : https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Sorry I thought I was in Note II forum
I'm going open a new thread there too but since this concerns all of us, it's up to mods to keep this one open.
It shouldn't but it does, even in the EU, OEM's successfully manage to deny warranty based on root.
Root on a Linux system is different to root on an android device though. You're not flashing firmware onto the motherboard of a linux PC and if you are, this is OEM provided anyway.
Once you have root on an android phone, you have acces to do so much more (which although root itself doesn't give you) enables you to flash teh radio stack and other partitions that if done incorrectly, can brick your phone.
If you flash an OEM BIOS on a PC, and it bricks it, they'll repair it because they provided what you flash on it. With Android, the development community works well outside the confines of the Android OS. Basebands, recoveries, bootloaders.
Can root itself break the phone? No. Should warranty be refused on the basis of root alone? No. If I have a faulty USB port, my root status is irrelevant.
However, as an OEM, I would like to be protected against people bricking their device through their own stupidity. I don't want to have to pay to give John Smith a new device because he flashed a Note 2 recovery on his S3.
So the middle ground should be... As an OEM if you are unable to provide evidence that root caused the failure - warranty not void. However, if you can prove the CPU was fried due to overclocking - warranty void!
rootSU said:
Can root itself break the phone? No. Should warranty be refused on the basis of root alone? No. If I have a faulty USB port, my root status is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly!!!
I'm OK with these incorrect flash procedures but they refuse everything including manufacturing faults. That's not fair!
Often two warranty's for a phone .
One the phone vendors warranty .
Two a manufacturers extra warranty ..
Samsung offer a limited 24 months warranty and unless they are the phone vendor i do not believe EU laws apply s to this extra warranty .
Where a user may be right in the EU claiming the phone vendor should honour the warranty on a rooted phone . The problem is compounded by the vendor sending the phone to Samsung for warranty repairs . Samsung then say it does not match our terms and conditions for warranty repairs .
But no matter how many users say the law says root is ok Samsung reply no and no user has yet stood up and challenged either the vendor or Samsung .
jje
I bricked (hard brick) my Moto Z 2 months back. Which means no boot, no charge, no pc detection. I tried multiple service centre in different cities and they all told me that my warranty is over. One even showed me their website which said out of warranty when they entered my IMEI.
I'm wondering how can they know without powering the phone. Is it possible that they void the warranty the moment you ask for the unlock code while unlocking the bootloader? Because I've claimed my warranty multiple times before on my previous phones and they didn't know if the bootloader was unlocked.
Motorola states on their bootloader unlock page that you loose your warranty if you request an unlock code.
In the US this is allowed to do for companies as far as I know.
In the EU it's not possible to deny the customer the mandatory warranty and therefore this "threat" is null and void in the EU
regenwurm16 said:
Motorola states on their bootloader unlock page that you loose your warranty if you request an unlock code.
In the US this is allowed to do for companies as far as I know.
In the EU it's not possible to deny the customer the mandatory warranty and therefore this "threat" is null and void in the EU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they killed my warranty
Manish54 said:
But they killed my warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I suppose you are an EU citizen then.
Easiest way is to tell them they can't deny you your warranty according to EU regulations and if they still make problems threaten them that you'll go to the consumer protection agency of your country
As long as there's no physical damage visible from the outside and you didn't do anything harmful like overclock the device (which hardly is traceable as the cause of the problem) they have nothing against you to justify the denial of your warranty.
Last resort is taking them to court (your consumer protection agency should help you with this) you'll get right most surely but I don't suppose they will go that far.
I bought Moto Z an unlocked US version on eBay and just wanted to check the motorola's website for warranty. I logged in to my moto account and registered my device by entering IMEI #. It shows warranty status as "Jan 2017" I sent an email to support and provided them eBay/PayPal receipt but they replied saying that they won't honor the warranty date change because I bought my device from an unauthorized reseller. I asked them how can a device that was released Sep/Oct 2016 have already expired warranty, but didn't really get an answer from motorola.
regenwurm16 said:
So I suppose you are an EU citizen then.
Easiest way is to tell them they can't deny you your warranty according to EU regulations and if they still make problems threaten them that you'll go to the consumer protection agency of your country
As long as there's no physical damage visible from the outside and you didn't do anything harmful like overclock the device (which hardly is traceable as the cause of the problem) they have nothing against you to justify the denial of your warranty.
Last resort is taking them to court (your consumer protection agency should help you with this) you'll get right most surely but I don't suppose they will go that far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think that's possible because they give the warning before unlocking the bootloader. Also there are thousands of pending cases in the counsumer court here in India.
Manish54 said:
I don't think that's possible because they give the warning before unlocking the bootloader. Also there are thousands of pending cases in the counsumer court here in India.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know about the laws in India but in Europe at least that warning isn't legal.
I need help.
LG says "Once your phone is unlocked, it will no longer be covered by LG warranty."
Since they stated this: Can I still use LG warranty, based on EU 1999 Directive or anything that I missed?
Important part from other topic here:
Any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will get an infinite loop since the seller needs to give the warranty and the LG will deny it?
(Accordingly with Directive 1999/44/CE above)
There is still a way to get the warranty?
The product has 2 problems, Screen Burn in and GPS not locking, it is a hardware problem, not caused by the root, but by the model (many users have the same problems).
MalarKeY007 said:
I need help.
LG says "Once your phone is unlocked, it will no longer be covered by LG warranty."
Since they stated this: Can I still use LG warranty, based on EU 1999 Directive or anything that I missed?
Important part from other topic here:
It will get an infinite loop since the seller needs to give the warranty and the LG will deny it?
(Accordingly with Directive 1999/44/CE above)
There is still a way to get the warranty?
The product has 2 problems, Screen Burn in and GPS not locking, it is a hardware problem, not caused by the root, but by the model (many users have the same problems).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have reverted back to kdz and relock bootloader with a few phones. Sent off to warranty with no issues.
Sent from my LGE LG-H830 using XDA Labs
relocked boot loader doesn’t grant reactivated warranty!
BTW:
* to unlock your boot loader, you have to register your phone ID -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* sometimes there are "fuses" installed to register unlocking the device ( Samsung etc.) -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* update routines are checking the device status -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
In all this causes, the manufacturer will recognize your manipulating.
Nick216ohio said:
I have reverted back to kdz and relock bootloader with a few phones. Sent off to warranty with no issues.
Sent from my LGE LG-H830 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did that too, but they saw it here when they put IMEI on the system.
non-toxic said:
relocked boot loader doesn’t grant reactivated warranty!
BTW:
* to unlock your boot loader, you have to register your phone ID -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* sometimes there are "fuses" installed to register unlocking the device ( Samsung etc.) -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* update routines are checking the device status -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
In all this cases, the manufacturer will recognize your manipulating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see.
But I ask because the European Union have some specific laws and directives about warranty. I wanted to find a way to make LG fix the phone, since the problems are clearly hardware fault by manufacturer, and not because rooting.
I know your problem, but you need a lot of money; time and a lawyer to get your justice! Did you have this?
In the first 6 month everything is alright! The dealer has to regulate the harm.
After 6 Month....
As my experiences, the dealer send your phone to LG service partners. They will see your status and refuse the warranty.
You get back your faulty phone after a long while and have to pay for the costs estimate. Nothing is won!
You have to prove, that the harm was predisposed at the date of purchase! So you need a professional expertise.
That’s makes it very difficult!
(see 1. of my signature!!!)
I have found this interesting text’s
->http://www.giga.de/apps/android-os/news/wie-sieht-es-mit-gewaehrleistung-und-garantie-bei-root-aus/
(please translate it with google translation!)
and
-> http://piana.eu/root
non-toxic said:
I know your problem, but you need a lot of money; time and a lawyer to get your justice! Did you have this?
In the first 6 month everything is alright! The dealer has to regulate the harm.
After 6 Month....
As my experiences, the dealer send your phone to LG service partners. They will see your status and refuse the warranty.
You get back your faulty phone after a long while and have to pay for the costs estimate. Nothing is won!
You have to prove, that the harm was predisposed at the date of purchase! So you need a professional expertise.
That’s makes it very difficult!
(see 1. of my signature!!!)
I have found this interesting text’s
->http://www.giga.de/apps/android-os/news/wie-sieht-es-mit-gewaehrleistung-und-garantie-bei-root-aus/
(please translate it with google translation!)
and
-> http://piana.eu/root
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, nice texts you got for me!
Well then.
My product got defective in the first 6 months (In 4 months maybe). But I didn't went to my warranty service, shame on me...
So I guess I'm on the warranty service hands...
Money, Money, Money, Lawyer and Time = 5x Money I don't have 1x lol...
But thank you so much for the help. You cleared things up for me.
Rooting an LG with its past problems history... shame on me 2x :silly:
non-toxic said:
relocked boot loader doesn’t grant reactivated warranty!
BTW:
* to unlock your boot loader, you have to register your phone ID -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* sometimes there are "fuses" installed to register unlocking the device ( Samsung etc.) -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
* update routines are checking the device status -> your unlock procedure was known by manufacturer!
In all this causes, the manufacturer will recognize your manipulating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry didn't know you guys where talking about the official way to unlock bootloader. Well let me correct myself if you unlocked your bootloader the unofficial way, you should be good.
Sent from my LGE LG-H830 using XDA Labs
Nick216ohio said:
Sorry didn't know you guys where talking about the official way to unlock bootloader. Well let me correct myself if you unlocked your bootloader the unofficial way, you should be good.
Sent from my LGE LG-H830 using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There wasn't a way to unlock unofficially in the time I did it. Still doesn't have I guess
But. I got a response from LG. Warranty is no more, but here goes the best part:
Well... Funny enough, LG said to me that "screen retention is normal on their devices, since it is the display technology, and the retention disappear in a few seconds"...
Guys. There's no way to respond to this LOL. I gave up. (Not even a price to replace the display they gave to me)...
The GPS problem costs half the value I paid on the device to fix it. :good: :silly:
I want LG G6 so bad, but... after this... I noticed that even if I had the warranty, they wasn't going to replace the Burn-in problem.
I recommend caution in buying LG devices, at least in the EU...
MalarKeY007 said:
There wasn't a way to unlock unofficially in the time I did it. Still doesn't have I guess
But. I got a response from LG. Warranty is no more, but here goes the best part:
Well... Funny enough, LG said to me that "screen retention is normal on their devices, since it is the display technology, and the retention disappear in a few seconds"...
Guys. There's no way to respond to this LOL. I gave up. (Not even a price to replace the display they gave to me)...
The GPS problem costs half the value I paid on the device to fix it. :good: :silly:
I want LG G6 so bad, but... after this... I noticed that even if I had the warranty, they wasn't going to replace the Burn-in problem.
I recommend caution in buying LG devices, at least in the EU...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's bull crap they do that. Android post to be open source, they will unlock for you official bootloader. But things go wrong LG laughs in your face. I truly believe they do it just so they can screw you over with the warranty.
Like all problems are known issues in phone and they wanna charge wtf? I know you said at the time there was no known unofficial way to unlock. Next phone just try to hold off untill there is.
Sent from my LGE LG-H830 using XDA Labs