I am sick and tired of journalists and casual reviewers (yes MKBHD I am looking at you) misquoting the DisplayMate display reviews and repeating everywhere that the N8 has 1240cd/m² and is therefore twice as bright compared to the LG V30 or iPhone X. This is a whole lot of bullcrap.
Some of you may remember the debunking article I wrote at the time of the Galaxy S4, which explained (and it took several pages of discussion to convince the sceptics) that brightness on OLED displays decreases with the Average Picture Level (APL):
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2268937
The 1240cd/m² in the DisplayMate review is for a 1% APL, i.e., display content where the average picture level is equivalent to 1% white and 99% black - a situation that is completely irrelevant and never happens in real use. ALL OLED displays can display incredibly bright whites in those conditions, including the iPhone X and LG V30.
If you don't believe me - straight from the DisplayMate review:
"For most image content the Galaxy Note8 provides over 490 cd/m2 (Luminance, which is a measure of Brightness sometimes called nits), comparable or higher than most LCD displays in this size class. The measured Brightness on the Home screen is even higher at over 540 nits.
Below I am summarizing the brightness levels that the N8's display can reach in auto mode for different types of content:
Android Menu: 5% APL | Maximum Brightness: 990cd/m²
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"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
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"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Android Menu with radio buttons: 10% APL | Maximum Brightness: 880cd/m²
OLED fiendly web site: 15% APL | Maximum Brightness: 820cd/m²
Random Gallery Picture: 40% APL | Maximum Brightness: 670cd/m²
Google Play: 60% APL | Maximum Brightness: 610cd/m²
Anandtech with zoom on picture: 70% APL | Maximum Brightness: 585cd/m²
Google Maps: 75% APL | Maximum Brightness: 575cd/m²
Whatsapp: 80% APL | Maximum Brightness: 565cd/m²
Android Contact List: 85% APL | Maximum Brightness: 555cd/m²
Google Results page: 90% APL | Maximum Brightness: 545cd/m²
100% White window | Maximum Brightness 540cd/m²
For most video and web browsing content, the typical brightness in auto mode will be 550-670cd/m² in auto mode under direct sunlight and 450-550cd/m² otherwise.
Those values are very similar to what can be observed on the LG V30 and iPhone X (as per Android Authority and GSMArena reviews and figures quoted by Apple). If I see another reviewer quote these figures incorrectly and state that the N8 has double the brightness compared to competitors just because they are too dumb to read the DisplayMate review correctly, I am going to blow a fuse.
On OLED Displays, a brightness measurement without an indication of the APL of the test pattern used for measurement is simply USELESS. Most reviewers will measure at 50% (for example a 50% white window on a black background), 60% or 100% (full white) APL. There is only DisplayMate to measure something as ineffectual and useless as the 1% APL brightness. No other review out there measures that way, so you simply can't use their measurement and compare them with values provided on other web sites.
DisplayMate should either make their reviews clearer or start measuring other devices according to those standards. It is easy for Samsung to break brightness records year after year when they are the only OLED displays ever being measured.
Yep, it sucks when reviews aren't standardized, and you get information that isn't relevant for comparison to everyday usage. Replace that fuse with a circuit breaker though. We like keeping senior members around, lol.
I believe I read that you cannot get the max brightness by setting the value to max. It can only be achieved by having brightness set to auto and then taking the phone outside in sunlight.
There goes my idea of growing tomatoes in my basement in winter, using Note screen as a light source. And iphone x should have similar brightness, since it's amoled and probably made by Samsung, but who cares. As far as why Display Mate choose to measure maximum brightness the way they do, would be best to ask them, but as long as they test every display the same I don't see the problem. And please don't get me started on tests favoring one product over the other, we've been comparing Apples to Oranges for ages. BTW GSM arena lists maximum brightness of N8 at 850 max auto and v30 at 616 max auto, with non auto mode at 412 and 414, respectively, high enough for me.
liquidguru said:
I believe I read that you cannot get the max brightness by setting the value to max. It can only be achieved by having brightness set to auto and then taking the phone outside in sunlight.
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This is not enough. As per my post the following conditions must be fulfilled:
Brightness on auto
Direct sunlight
Content as an Average Picture Level of 1%, i.e., equivalent to 1% white on a black background
For most content (video and web browsing, where APL is between 40% and 90%) max brightness will be between 550cd/m² and 650cd/m² in automatic mode in direct sunlight.
I will be providing the 1% APL measurement on the V30 as soon as I have been able to get my hands on a unit. In fact I will provide the values at each APL so we have a full comparison.
pete4k said:
There goes my idea of growing tomatoes in my basement in winter, using Note screen as a light source. And iphone x should have similar brightness, since it's amoled and probably made by Samsung, but who cares. As far as why Display Mate choose to measure maximum brightness the way they do, would be best to ask them, but as long as they test every display the same I don't see the problem. And please don't get me started on tests favoring one product over the other, we've been comparing Apples to Oranges for ages. BTW GSM arena lists maximum brightness of N8 at 850 max auto and v30 at 616 max auto, with non auto mode at 412 and 414, respectively, high enough for me.
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But you see, that's precisely the problem. They only ever test Samsung OLED displays. Go to their web page, you will find only the Samsung OLED displays and Apple LCD displays. I honestly have my suspicions that DisplayMate are in bed with Samsung. They always have a Samsung display review ready before the first hands on reviews even appear on time for launch. Testing displays and writing a complete display review takes time. And they hardly ever test anything else. They essentially work as a fame machine for Samsung.
I called them out on their methodology issue a few years ago (when they weren't even indicating the APL %) and they changed their methodology as a result. But in this review, they only give a brightness range in auto mode without showing the APL breakdown, so if you read it without knowledge of display calibration it is easy to misunderstand. Nowhere is it explicitly mentioned that the top value of 1,240cd/m² is for the 1% APL.
The other issue is that EVEN if they end up adding reviews for the V30 and iPhone X, there is a time gap for already 2 months in which the entire press is being fooled and spreads misinformation, granting an Samsung unfair advantage.
I am not an Apple fan by any stretch of the imaginationl and I am equally annoyed when Apple make false claims about their phone (e..g., "The iPhone X will be much sharper than the iPhone 8 Plus - no it won't, pentile 1,125p is equivalent 919p non pentile), but as a product developer myself, nothing enrages me more than misinformation and false marketing claims.
Here is another Display comparison in max auto mode, which also shows above 600cd/m² for the LG V30 (higher than the S8 plus) and 420cd/2 in auto mode:
http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v30-poled-vs-samsung-super-amoled-797330/
If I had to make wild guess: Display mate is a website in business of promoting and selling their software. Since their software costs more than some monitors, they are probably targeting top end displays and most popular. I don't think they want to be review side, I think reviews are to attract largest amount people for least amount of money. And it works, I would never knew about them, if it wasn't for their reviews of Note displays. And why Samsung? They may have some deal with them. I just read article about some professional photographer doing shoot in India, using iphone x as his main camera. Well, iphone x won't be available for sale for another month, can we assume he works for Apple ?
But I know Display Mate reviewed Pixel and iphone, so they may be going after largest audience with deeper pockets. And I'm not trying to offend you in any way, but I think you over reacting about non issue: As long as maximum brightness reaches certain minimum level, let's say 350-400, it doesn't really matter anymore. I have never used my phone at maximum level and it's one spec I wouldn't care much about. I think historically amoled screens had problems with high brightness and my only take from all this would be, brightness is no longer their issue.
pete4k said:
If I had to make wild guess: Display mate is a website in business of promoting and selling their software. Since their software costs more than some monitors, they are probably targeting top end displays and most popular. I don't think they want to be review side, I think reviews are to attract largest amount people for least amount of money. And it works, I would never knew about them, if it wasn't for their reviews of Note displays. And why Samsung? They may have some deal with them. I just read article about some professional photographer doing shoot in India, using iphone x as his main camera. Well, iphone x won't be available for sale for another month, can we assume he works for Apple ?
But I know Display Mate reviewed Pixel and iphone, so they may be going after largest audience with deeper pockets. And I'm not trying to offend you in any way, but I think you over reacting about non issue: As long as maximum brightness reaches certain minimum level, let's say 350-400, it doesn't really matter anymore. I have never used my phone at maximum level and it's one spec I wouldn't care much about. I think historically amoled screens had problems with high brightness and my only take from all this would be, brightness is no longer their issue.
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If sunlight contrast didn't matter, then no one would care about contrast in a normal environment. The whole point of OLED I to have better contrast for a more crisp picture. But because sunlight washes out blacks, the only way to restore a form of contrast is via brightness. Contrast outside is not even on the level of LCD's inside, so it does matter a lot. If contrast didn't matter, we would all still be using LCD's...The "less than bright in the sun" issue is sister issue of "less than black in the dark" - both are contrast issues (sunlight contrast ratios are still pretty bad).
I can't say if DisplayMate'S CEO is good friend with folks at Samsung, but I have been following them for several years now, and all of their reviews are written in a way that is misleading and plays down important issues of the displays. To me this is not how a scientific-minded person thinks and writes. Not to mention the person who writes the reviews must be color blind because of their complete lack of creative design skills and poor choice of colors. This is not how you sell software. LOL
Sorry.. who are you? Pass
puremind said:
If sunlight contrast didn't matter, then no one would care about contrast in a normal environment. The whole point of OLED I to have better contrast for a more crisp picture. But because sunlight washes out blacks, the only way to restore a form of contrast is via brightness. Contrast outside is not even on the level of LCD's inside, so it does matter a lot. If contrast didn't matter, we would all still be using LCD's...The "less than bright in the sun" issue is sister issue of "less than black in the dark" - both are contrast issues (sunlight contrast ratios are still pretty bad).
I can't say if DisplayMate'S CEO is good friend with folks at Samsung, but I have been following them for several years now, and all of their reviews are written in a way that is misleading and plays down important issues of the displays. To me this is not how a scientific-minded person thinks and writes. Not to mention the person who writes the reviews must be color blind because of their complete lack of creative design skills and poor choice of colors. This is not how you sell software. LOL
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Sunlight contrast matters only in Sun, for all other times (99% for me) I do care about contrast in normal environment also, sorry. Sure, whole point of OLED is better contrast AND crisper colors AND wider gamut coverage And lower power consumption (at lower screen brightness, so pretty much everywhere except in the Sun) AND no backlight leakage, like when you're reading in bed at night, but who am I to argue.
And according to Display mate and the way they measure brightness N8 has the highest. Case closed? , . I also don't understand your logic: you're following them for years because you don't like nor disagree with them??? If I don't like something, I don't waste my time on it. BTW I have dark theme on my N8 and white text on black screen is let's say 10% white maybe if text full screen, probably less if not full screen? So maybe we agree to disagree, but I don't see anything wrong using 1% for testing purposes, its closer to my real life screen than 50% and measuring it at 100% I think is as useless as you think it is at 1%.
pete4k said:
Sunlight contrast matters only in Sun, for all other times (99% for me) I do care about contrast in normal environment also, sorry. Sure, whole point of OLED is better contrast AND crisper colors AND wider gamut coverage And lower power consumption (at lower screen brightness, so pretty much everywhere except in the Sun) AND no backlight leakage, like when you're reading in bed at night, but who am I to argue.
And according to Display mate and the way they measure brightness N8 has the highest. Case closed? , . I also don't understand your logic: you're following them for years because you don't like nor disagree with them??? If I don't like something, I don't waste my time on it. BTW I have dark theme on my N8 and white text on black screen is let's say 10% white maybe if text full screen, probably less if not full screen? So maybe we agree to disagree, but I don't see anything wrong using 1% for testing purposes, its closer to my real life screen than 50% and measuring it at 100% I think is as useless as you think it is at 1%.
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That's not the right way to improve the world, to sit by and watch or walk away at everything that you don't like. When people do that, greedy companies with inferior products steal 92% of the profits in their industry, world leaders from the US and North Korea start insulting each other and who knows what else may happen.
It has never been my attitude in life and I will continue to debunk misinformation where it exists. We need whistleblowers and defenders of fairness and truth. People who speak up.
No the case is not closed, the N8 is not twice as bright compared to the LG V30 and iPhone X. We have no measurements on retail units for either phone.
Please point me to a single serious review of the iPhone X's display or any piece of evidence that validates the claim that the N8 has twice the brightness of the iPhone X. Until then, popular Youtubers such as MKBHD should refrain from making inaccurate, misleading statements. Trust me, it is inaccurate.
I will refute inaccurate statements and false marketing claims wherever they may exist. It is an insult to my profession. As product developers I have to believe that people are in it for the product, not or the clever marketing. Don't forget that capitalism works at its best in a situation of perfect and fair competition, and one of the pillars of perfect competition is having perfect information.
Pessimists are idealists who no longer dare to hope.
puremind said:
That's not the right way to improve the world, to sit by and watch or walk away at everything that you don't like. When people do that, greedy companies with inferior products steal 92% of the profits in their industry, world leaders from the US and North Korea start insulting each other and who knows what else may happen.
It has never been my attitude in life and I will continue to debunk misinformation where it exists. We need whistleblowers and defenders of fairness and truth. People who speak up.
No the case is not closed, the N8 is not twice as bright compared to the LG V30 and iPhone X. We have no measurements on retail units for either phone.
Please point me to a single serious review of the iPhone X's display or any piece of evidence that validates the claim that the N8 has twice the brightness of the iPhone X. Until then, popular Youtubers such as MKBHD should refrain from making inaccurate, misleading statements. Trust me, it is inaccurate.
I will refute inaccurate statements and false marketing claims wherever they may exist. It is an insult to my profession. As product developers I have to believe that people are in it for the product, not or the clever marketing. Don't forget that capitalism works at its best in a situation of perfect and fair competition, and one of the pillars of perfect competition is having perfect information.
Pessimists are idealists who no longer dare to hope.
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Click to collapse
Finally we agree on something, I hate Apple for ripping consumers off and pocketing most of the cell phone industry profits (is it 92% now? WOW) and prize Display Mate for not sitting in Apple's pocket.
I have no idea who claimed N8 has double the brightness of iphone x, did they even test it yet? and I don't think it matters anyway, since I believe iphone X will have Samsung amoled screen (I don't think Apple makes amoled screens) and therefore should be good. If you want to be Don Quichotte, good luck, but I think we are beating death horse here and I don't think I have anything else to add to the topic.
puremind said:
That's not the right way to improve the world, to sit by and watch or walk away at everything that you don't like. When people do that, greedy companies with inferior products steal 92% of the profits in their industry, world leaders from the US and North Korea start insulting each other and who knows what else may happen.
It has never been my attitude in life and I will continue to debunk misinformation where it exists. We need whistleblowers and defenders of fairness and truth. People who speak up.
No the case is not closed, the N8 is not twice as bright compared to the LG V30 and iPhone X. We have no measurements on retail units for either phone.
Please point me to a single serious review of the iPhone X's display or any piece of evidence that validates the claim that the N8 has twice the brightness of the iPhone X. Until then, popular Youtubers such as MKBHD should refrain from making inaccurate, misleading statements. Trust me, it is inaccurate.
I will refute inaccurate statements and false marketing claims wherever they may exist. It is an insult to my profession. As product developers I have to believe that people are in it for the product, not or the clever marketing. Don't forget that capitalism works at its best in a situation of perfect and fair competition, and one of the pillars of perfect competition is having perfect information.
Pessimists are idealists who no longer dare to hope.
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Click to collapse
MKBHD is annoying and frequently gets things wrong. How he has so many subscribers is beyond my level of comprehension.
I always keep in mind that when Display Mate posts a review, they only have a sample size of 1 and a cherry picked unit and a possibility of paid work from manufacturers. Sometimes I read the entire article but just for fun.
pete4k said:
Finally we agree on something, I hate Apple for ripping consumers off and pocketing most of the cell phone industry profits (is it 92% now? WOW) and prize Display Mate for not sitting in Apple's pocket.
I have no idea who claimed N8 has double the brightness of iphone x, did they even test it yet? and I don't think it matters anyway, since I believe iphone X will have Samsung amoled screen (I don't think Apple makes amoled screens) and therefore should be good. If you want to be Don Quichotte, good luck, but I think we are beating death horse here and I don't think I have anything else to add to the topic.
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Telling the truth actually works. I write the same on every web site and YouTube video that has incorrect information on products.
ZTE will have Sharp OLED on their Axon 9.
Have you seen the anti-Apple sentiment that has emerged as a of people speaking up to criticize the many things that Apple do wrong?
In the past people were saying "iOS is so energy efficient, more than Android". Now they say "Apple can't build in 3K displays because of their poor battery performance, so they have to stick with 1125p displays".
In the past people were saying Apple have the fastest CPU's. Now they are saying "For most of the year Android have the fastest CPUs, in a couple of weeks Huawei will have the fastest CPU".
In the past people were saying "Apple are so good they account for most of the profits in the smartphone industry". Today they are saying: "No wonder Apple capture most of the profits in the Smartphone industry - they offer lesser battery and display resolution and charge you more for it - you even have to pay 85 USD extra for fast charging".
As early as 2013, I was arguing against many Apple fans that their toylike bezels are a drag for a company that used to pride themselves on one handed usability and they responded that no one buys according to bezels. Today everyone agrees that bezelless phones are the future and Apple fans rush to buy the iPhone X.
In the past people were saying, the human eye cannot see beyond the retina display's level of sharpness. Today they are saying the iPhone X's pixel density is only one third of what human vision can resolve and other phones have much better sharpness.
If not for people like me, Apple would continue to make disproportionate amounts of money on the back of credulous users. Our rant videos on the iPhone X will have an impact. It may be small in the beginning but there will be a snowball effect.
Capitalism always wins - give people perfect information and the market shares balance each other out in the end.
As a product developer, it is my job to anticipate needs people didn't know they had and to uncover weaknesses in existing products. It helps drive competition and consumers benefit in the end because companies are pushed to work harder.
freeza said:
MKBHD is annoying and frequently gets things wrong. How he has so many subscribers is beyond my level of comprehension.
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Millennials admire a successful 22 year old because they project themselves.
Also, his reviews never choose a particular phone as he seemingly uses every phone as his daily driver, so it doesn't push away fans of a specific brand. Except brands that don't bring much viewership like HTC or Essential Phone.
I love how he kept praising large bezel phones like the iPhones and the Pixel and Nexus devices (he has gigantic hands) and bezels were never a topic for him, and now suddenly ever since the Mi Mix it has become his new manta.
freeza said:
MKBHD is annoying and frequently gets things wrong. How he has so many subscribers is beyond my level of comprehension.
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He made a video about the Note 8 and said the battery life is poor. He said you only get 3 1/2 to 4hr of SOT. I get 5 1/2 to 6 every day and I am not the only one. So take what he says with a grain of salt.
There we have it:
"Speaking of, the S8 pair pretty much blew us away and we expected a lot from the Note8 as well. Now, we did manage to get to a brightness as high as 850 nits in Auto mode by shining a light in to the ambient light sensor, but that is still a bit lower than the 870 nits of the S8+. In fact, at 100% brightness in Adaptive mode, without any input from the light sensor, the Note8 appears to run a bit dimmer than its S8 sibling as well. The difference is small, especially when you consider that the Note8 will happily go into overdrive when exposed to the sun outdoors, so we didn't really notice a real-life difference when using the phones normally. Still, we couldn't exactly confirm DisplayMate's recent claim of a record-shattering 1,200 nit reading on the Note8."
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note8-review-1659p3.php
Related
Review from Engadget is up, and looks like most of it is good except low light performance of camera. Hope there is fix for this.
https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/30/zte-axon-7-review/#gallery=419900&slide=4003963&index=14
I'm still not sure why people seem so obsessed with low light camera performance. When I look at my album, less than 5% of the pictures are of low light scenes. I'm not going to let such a menial metric determine whether or not I buy this.
Adiyel said:
I'm still not sure why people seem so obsessed with low light camera performance. When I look at my album, less than 5% of the pictures are of low light scenes. I'm not going to let such a menial metric determine whether or not I buy this.
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Doesn't matter what % you take in low light. low light pictures are the best how you know your camera is good.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA-Developers mobile app
Adiyel said:
I'm still not sure why people seem so obsessed with low light camera performance. When I look at my album, less than 5% of the pictures are of low light scenes. I'm not going to let such a menial metric determine whether or not I buy this.
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If it takes good pictures in low light, then it will probably take great pictures in brighter conditions. Some of us take more pictures at night time, at concerts, or simply want the option to take better quality pictures.
Apropos camera quality, I've almost never liked my iPhone 6's low-light shots, but have absolutely no complaint about the other 98% of the times I take a picture during daylight. So in case you wanna measure it "as of worst case", sure, but I don't think there's a clear way to translate that performance directly to "quality". Specially for a tiny smartphone sensor without interchangable lens etc.
When it comes to the Axon 7's camera, exposure (pictures come out darker from what I've seen) and that grain I see in some pictures are the only "worries" I think I might have when I switch (currently waiting for UNKNOWN EU shipping dates). And both of those problems might as well be fixed via software.
MKBHD [1] said it a couple of times, nowadays we tend to measure smartphones by what's wrong with them, instead of what's right about them. So I understand, why people complain about a not so good low light camera performance.
But I'm with @Adiyel. It's the same for me, I almost never take photos in low light, so I don't care about low light camera performance.
[1] Quote from MKBHD's OnePlus 3 Review
Axon 7's low light photo results is the only con I know Axon 7 has at the moment....well.....beside the availability problem here in Europe at the moment.
We are judging phones from their flaws since if you see phones with relative similar price, you will start to compare the pros and cons. Since phones these days are already good, looking for their cons are the better comparison rather then going over their pros. In the end, you simply want a the best phone for your money.
aaa said:
Axon 7's low light photo results is the only con I know Axon 7 has at the moment....well.....beside the availability problem here in Europe at the moment.
We are judging phones from their flaws since if you see phones with relative similar price, you will start to compare the pros and cons. Since phones these days are already good, looking for their cons are the better comparison rather then going over their pros. In the end, you simply want a the best phone for your money.
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Well then from both of you and Cypher's points of views, other phones don't have dual-facing speakers with DOLBY ATMOS AND High-End DAC, so all of them are out of the question. See? Not the best way to compare things...
I don't know about reviews and how it is done, but atleast in real life use I think camera is decent and this is coming from someone who have used Lumia 1520, iPhone 6 & LG G4 in past. My fiancé got same phone and we were texting back and forth on whatsapp yesterday and few selfie she sent in pitch black dark room with just the screen light looked pretty decent to me on my LG G4. If you go pixel peeping even you can find flaws with pics of D800 and 5D mk iii. I think when I get mine from B&H I'd not be upset with the camera atleast based upon what I saw yesterday.
Low light is an issue imo because night-life is a popular time to take pictures for a large amount of phone users. The majority of this forum might be married with kids and/or cave-dwellers but let's not rationalize away things that could use improvement.
macallik said:
Low light is an issue imo because night-life is a popular time to take pictures for a large amount of phone users. The majority of this forum might be married with kids and/or cave-dwellers but let's not rationalize away things that could use improvement.
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Yeah sure you can complain all you want. Was just throwing in my two cents, and I'm really sad that you won't be able to take great pictures in the dark, where you should be drinking and getting on with the girls instead Coming from a "cave-dweller".
P.S. People should check their upgraditis once in a while. 400 bucks get you this far, and I think you won't find so much more features, if any, in many other phones with the same price.
MeggaMortY said:
Yeah sure you can complain all you want. Was just throwing in my two cents, and I'm really sad that you won't be able to take great pictures in the dark, where you should be drinking and getting on with the girls instead Coming from a "cave-dweller".
P.S. People should check their upgraditis once in a while. 400 bucks get you this far, and I think you won't find so much more features, if any, in many other phones with the same price.
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Night-life is about doing things at night, not just being in a bar/club.
Personally, I think the Axon 7 suits my needs greater than the OP3 (a similarly priced phone) in most ways. Photo quality is an area that the phone is being outperformed however.
macallik said:
Low light is an issue imo because night-life is a popular time to take pictures for a large amount of phone users. The majority of this forum might be married with kids and/or cave-dwellers but let's not rationalize away things that could use improvement.
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No I'm not trying to rationalize low light performance. All I'm saying is what I've seen so far is good enough for my use, yes there is always room for improvement. But I don't see any other device in this price range with all this feature set giving any better low light pictures then what Axon 7 does at this period of time, There might be devices in future that will beat Axon 7 for price feature category. But at present I feel this is best value for your money. And with more RAM + more powerful processor - point I don't get is if you are not a gamer, does it really matter ?
macallik said:
Low light is an issue imo because night-life is a popular time to take pictures for a large amount of phone users. The majority of this forum might be married with kids and/or cave-dwellers but let's not rationalize away things that could use improvement.
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I agree with this. Have you seen Linus Tech's review of the Axon? For night scenes, most people are rocking iPhones, Galaxies, LGs, and oddly enough, ZTE phones (4th largest in the USA). Only recent phones really have passable lowlight, and it's easy enough to spend a couple minutes in snapseed and make a night photo really usable.
I also think a problem our generation has is that we judge this phone's lowlight based on other phones, but its performance wouldn't change if these phones didn't exist (the 2016 galaxies).
Like the other guy said earlier, the performance is passable. And lowlight isn't an indication of how good a cam is...it's more indicative of how versatile and stable the performance is across different scenarios. Look at the TechRadar review, and look at the walkway scene. The Axon pulls in far more detail than the S7. Period. Lots of small pixels has a tradeoff for great daytime detail and performance. Large pixels and lower resolution has compromises, too.
Overall, the Axon does so many things right for so little money. How many phones can say that? How many offer what the Axon 7 does at or below is cost? The list is VERY small, trust me.
I would prefer an artificial light / indoor light review as I class that as low light. So many recent phones I have had are awful inside the house and loads of my photos are I doors with my children just having fun and of you want a camera test that would be a great one. Best phone so far including s7 and s7 Edge for taking photos of a baby bouncing in a bouncer is any of the Sony xperia Z range using timeshift burst. One click and an instant 40 photos (I think) 20 before shutter and 20 after now that's amazing at freezing moving images just a shame resolution was a little low and phones heat up) all the same it's a clever bit of software ahead of its time.
I will openly admit that as a fan of AMOLED displays, I love the "oversaturated" colors and "better than life" images they facilitate. Of course there are people who prefer LCDs and people who are color-accuracy purists, and I respect their differing preferences. With that said, I want to offer some comments about the Galaxy Note 7's display, and see if other people are having the same thoughts. For reference, mine arrived on Tuesday of this week so I've had it for roughly two days now.
The sAMOLED panel on the phone, or at least the phone I have, is a horrid disappointment. The first thing I do when getting a new Samsung phone (which for various reasons is basically every time a new one releases) is turn the Display Mode to "AMOLED Cinema". Until the Note 7, it had been the most intense, color saturated setting option. With the Note 7, it looks awful. The colors are washed out and "dull" to the point where I almost wondered if there is a calibration issue. Oddly, the Automatic mode seems to be the only way to get colors remotely saturated to the point of which I prefer.
Along with the Note 7, I am currently using a Nexus 6P. The display on the 6P is, for my personal preferences, far better than that on the Note 7. I have the same wallpaper on both, the same icon set up, and yet the 6P's colors look way more intense.
Has anyone else noticed this? In particular, people who have owned the Galaxy S7 Edge, the Galaxy Note 5, and the Galaxy S6 Edge+? Could it be that my device has a problem with the panel?
I used the S7 Edge for about 4 months and at no point did it have the color "problems" that I am experiencing with the Note 7. Mind you the smaller, standard Galaxy S7 looked more vibrant, but this was attributed to the display being that much smaller.
Yes, I get the idea that Samsung is trying to make the displays more color accurate and whatnot, but in all honesty, should the ultimate goal be to make them as close to LCD color calibration as possible? Is that what people would want?
If this is where Samsung is going with future products, I must admit I'm not happy at all. Part of the reason I like the Galaxy series has always been their super saturated situation. The Note 7 is now the first product where I have, from the very first minutes with the phone, been unhappy with the display.
Any thoughts?
TokyoGuy said:
I will openly admit that as a fan of AMOLED displays, I love the "oversaturated" colors and "better than life" images they facilitate. Of course there are people who prefer LCDs and people who are color-accuracy purists, and I respect their differing preferences. With that said, I want to offer some comments about the Galaxy Note 7's display, and see if other people are having the same thoughts. For reference, mine arrived on Tuesday of this week so I've had it for roughly two days now.
The sAMOLED panel on the phone, or at least the phone I have, is a horrid disappointment. The first thing I do when getting a new Samsung phone (which for various reasons is basically every time a new one releases) is turn the Display Mode to "AMOLED Cinema". Until the Note 7, it had been the most intense, color saturated setting option. With the Note 7, it looks awful. The colors are washed out and "dull" to the point where I almost wondered if there is a calibration issue. Oddly, the Automatic mode seems to be the only way to get colors remotely saturated to the point of which I prefer.
Along with the Note 7, I am currently using a Nexus 6P. The display on the 6P is, for my personal preferences, far better than that on the Note 7. I have the same wallpaper on both, the same icon set up, and yet the 6P's colors look way more intense.
Has anyone else noticed this? In particular, people who have owned the Galaxy S7 Edge, the Galaxy Note 5, and the Galaxy S6 Edge+? Could it be that my device has a problem with the panel?
I used the S7 Edge for about 4 months and at no point did it have the color "problems" that I am experiencing with the Note 7. Mind you the smaller, standard Galaxy S7 looked more vibrant, but this was attributed to the display being that much smaller.
Yes, I get the idea that Samsung is trying to make the displays more color accurate and whatnot, but in all honesty, should the ultimate goal be to make them as close to LCD color calibration as possible? Is that what people would want?
If this is where Samsung is going with future products, I must admit I'm not happy at all. Part of the reason I like the Galaxy series has always been their super saturated situation. The Note 7 is now the first product where I have, from the very first minutes with the phone, been unhappy with the display.
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
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I am in the 'other' camp and much prefer a more natural picture, close to SRGB. Even then I use SCREEN BALANCE (app store) to very slightly change screen tint to a more blue'ish hue to get white whites.
My gf has a 3 series samsung and the colours are imho truly awful with their over emphasised vibrancy.
drummerman said:
I am in the 'other' camp and much prefer a more natural picture, close to SRGB. Even then I use SCREEN BALANCE (app store) to very slightly change screen tint to a more blue'ish hue to get white whites.
My gf has a 3 series samsung and the colours are imho truly awful with their over emphasised vibrancy.
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I think the S3 is not the best phone to compare it to. Back then the displays were really off balance. But I respect your preference for a more natural look but surely we need the options for either. Can the SCREEN BALANCE app you mentioned be used to saturate the colours at all? And does it interfere with the screen overlay issue when setting permissions for other apps?
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apprentice said:
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
.
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Click to collapse
I suspect you will be disappointed. I am literally, at this point, going back to the Nexus 6P constantly for web browsing and YouTube.
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
apprentice said:
I also heard about this lowered saturation on a YouTube review video recently, so it looks like Samsung has responded to the stupid complaints about the over saturation. I am on your side here as I love the over saturation, it is fundamentally why I go for Samsung phones overall. Those that complain are too dumb or too lazy to go and change the levels in settings. So Samsung has helped quell the moaners.
I am waiting for mine to arrive on Tuesday and I will report back here. I hope it isn't too noticeable as I will be bitterly disappointed.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed this the other day when comparing to my note 4 watching 4k videos. Videos were a little washed out and it didn't pop on my note 7. Details and contrast were missing. So I start looking in to the settings and in the Advanced features I find "Video enhancer" all the way on the bottom. I saw that it was ON and it makes the sample image brighter. OFF caused it to get darker. So I decided to turn it off and watched the same 4k video. Now my note 7 is exactly like my note 4. Colors popped, more contrast, more details. I assume because turning it off did not allow darker colors to get brighter and blended less with lighter colors of the same shade? Anyway, try it out yourself when you get your phone. I am leaving this setting off.
Nitemare3219 said:
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
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Click to collapse
I agree about it being the best display. I absolutely have ZERO complaints about the colors. I recently upgraded from the Galaxy S5, and lets just say... the difference is mind-blowing. However, this boils down to preference, and there's nothing wrong with the OP's wish for more saturation, as that is just what he prefers. However, I find the most saturation comes with Adaptive Display also, while Cinema Mode seems a tad more dull. The difference in modes is hardly even noticeable though. To the OP: Just roll with adaptive, my friend.
Nitemare3219 said:
You are insane. Yes, Samsung changed the screen modes for the BETTER.
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
Cinema used to be the oversaturated setting. Now it is adaptive display. If that isn't saturated enough for you, get your eyes checked dude. Beyond that point, you are absllutely making everything completely unrealistic. I don't like "washed out" aka accurate colors either, but I don't like colors that destroy the image. The 6P out of the box is too saturated. I have to tone that down slightly to match the Cinema mode from Samsung.
And people... STOP SAYING LCDS ARE FOR COLOR ELITISTS AND OLED IS OVERSATURATED. That is a crock of ****. The only reason Samsung made their first OLEDs oversaturated were to get people's attention. When using a calibrated setting, OLED is superior to LCD in EVERY WAY. Infinite contrast is A HUGE factor for image quality. LCDs suck. Period. The only advantage they have is brightness in TVs, which could change as tech matures (but Samsung has brighter OLED phone panels than any LCD competitor), and producing a deeper red color with quantum dot. That's it.
This is absolutely the best phone display ever made. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I don't know if "insane" is the proper word though. People have different preferences. I'd be willing to bet that a wide segment of the general population would also agree with me, and probably associate AMOLED with those exact "over the top" colors as some allege. Indeed it comes down to personal preference. Like how for some they simply can't use a point-and-shoot camera because the images are "terrible" but for the masses they would never notice most of the minutia of detail differences between a DSLR and point-and-shoot upon a quick glance.
Indeed I keep going back to the 6P now because the colors are so much more saturated. Which is ironic because when it launched last year IIRC, I felt it was too "subdued".
As for the generalization, I think it's become that way because many of the LCD-enthusiasts use that as their mantra. It's better because of X,Y,Z, basically the points you raised above. Perhaps when AMOLED becomes more common people will start to be more aware of the details and whatnot.
teegunn said:
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
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Click to collapse
For me at least, the display saturation has been one of the primary reasons I will come back to Samsung. For example I loved the LG V10 last year but ended up getting rid of it in favor of another Galaxy S6 Edge+ simply because of the color situation.
I don't think the display on mine is faulty, just that I'm not so happy with the changes Samsung has made to its display setting profiles. As for the Display Mate issue, I've heard about it for a relative while now, but at least from my personal preferences it's a strike against the phone. It would be interesting to see what a large segment of Note 7 users feel about the display, though I'm willing to bet that (1) 99% don't even know you can change the display settings, and (2) the phone is already set to Adaptive thus people won't even be aware to begin with.
Just as a side note, I found the Sony Xperia X to have a stunning display in terms of color saturation. They have calibrated it almost to the point of being an "old school" sAMOLED.
teegunn said:
Seems like people can find something to complain about. Now if someone has a truly faulty display, then that is reasonable to gripe about. But I can say my N7 has BY FAR the best display of any mobile device I have ever owned (Owned note's for 4 years now). This display is light years better than what my N4 has. The whites are far whiter, the colors are far better. It is saturated perfectly (I am using adaptive) and the brightness is awesome. The N7's display has already been shown to be by far the best display on any mobile device to date, and by a fairly wide margin in many of the different testing criteria. IDK what to say to someone who actually doesn't like the N7's display. Except maybe you have a faulty display. Each to their own, but it is pretty clear cut after extensive testing by displaymate (I think that's the site) that the N7 has the worlds best smartphone display. Second best was the S7 edge. I will say that I am not overly fond of the curved edges, but that would be my only gripe and has nothing to do with the actual display/brightness/colors/sharpness etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand what you are saying. I do not disagree with you that the display has been praised highly by the likes of Display Mate, I don't even dispute that this is the best display ever on any phone. I welcome the better whites and brightness and all that you point out and I also despair at some of the negativity posted on XDA about the Note 7 in general.
But I can't help the fact that I love over saturated colours on a phone (not necessarily for photo's and videos but certainly the UI) and up until now this has been a predominant feature of AMOLED. What I am complaining about is that the option to have a natural look or a vivid look that has always been a built into the settings for the display are no longer adequate. From what I gather, the CINEMA mode which was always the most vivid, makes little difference now. How hard would it be to allow users more control over saturation? The issue therefore is not with the display, but the software settings.
If as you say the ADAPTIVE mode is sufficient then I will be happy with that. Until I get my phone I won't know for sure.
apprentice said:
I think the S3 is not the best phone to compare it to. Back then the displays were really off balance. But I respect your preference for a more natural look but surely we need the options for either. Can the SCREEN BALANCE app you mentioned be used to saturate the colours at all? And does it interfere with the screen overlay issue when setting permissions for other apps?
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Click to collapse
I guess you could. Why not try it?
Yes it works by way of screen overlays. Certain application, like my mobile banking app require SB to be switched off. No biggie.
It may be of interest to you that NOUGAT has built in colour sliders and white balance adjustments which work at root level. Well at least the development version had it. Whether this makes it into the final version is another question. I can imagine that some manufacturers which have spent some effort to get their displays calibrated as close as poss to approved standards may object to see their work compromised that way.
We have to see.
I think nougat has been rolled out on Nexus so may be worth looking there too.
apprentice said:
I understand what you are saying. I do not disagree with you that the display has been praised highly by the likes of Display Mate, I don't even dispute that this is the best display ever on any phone. I welcome the better whites and brightness and all that you point out and I also despair at some of the negativity posted on XDA about the Note 7 in general.
But I can't help the fact that I love over saturated colours on a phone (not necessarily for photo's and videos but certainly the UI) and up until now this has been a predominant feature of AMOLED. What I am complaining about is that the option to have a natural look or a vivid look that has always been a built into the settings for the display are no longer adequate. From what I gather, the CINEMA mode which was always the most vivid, makes little difference now. How hard would it be to allow users more control over saturation? The issue therefore is not with the display, but the software settings.
If as you say the ADAPTIVE mode is sufficient then I will be happy with that. Until I get my phone I won't know for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An excellent point: why doesn't Samsung allow manual tinkering of the color saturation? Why not add a "Custom" mode? It has one for the music equalizer for example.
Rival products such as Asus hardware (though the Zenfone 3 crashed every time I tried) and even the BlackBerry Priv have manual color saturation sliders. If Samsung is so interested in changing the settings to inevitably upset any number of people, why not also have an option to tailor the display to the user's liking?
Nitemare3219 said:
Basic = sRGB = most consumer content.
Photo = Adobe RGB = pro photos
Cinema = DCI-P3 = film making standard
Adaptive = oversaturated, cold white point that some people like yourself prefer.
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Click to collapse
In theory you are correct about that but if you put maybe 5 note 7's side by side and set them all with the same color mode. probably 4 out of the 5 devices will have different color temperatures and saturation.
EarlZ said:
In theory you are correct about that but if you put maybe 5 note 7's side by side and set them all with the same color mode. probably 4 out of the 5 devices will have different color temperatures and saturation.
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Click to collapse
Yes, there is a margin of difference in each screen - no calibration setting is likely to produce the same result in a different screen. But unless Display Mate received a cherry picked device, or got extremely lucky, their testing shows these color modes are very accurate.
---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------
TokyoGuy said:
An excellent point: why doesn't Samsung allow manual tinkering of the color saturation? Why not add a "Custom" mode? It has one for the music equalizer for example.
Rival products such as Asus hardware (though the Zenfone 3 crashed every time I tried) and even the BlackBerry Priv have manual color saturation sliders. If Samsung is so interested in changing the settings to inevitably upset any number of people, why not also have an option to tailor the display to the user's liking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a great point and something that really should have been incorporated. OEMs are hesitant to allow users to customize things, which is stupid... Samsung wants locked bootloaders. Apple locks damn near everything down. I think the reasoning behind this is because most people don't have a damn clue what they're doing, and it would lead to devices with really bad configurations either by accident or by ignorance. The owner would think something is wrong with their device, other people would see this and think poorly of that OEM, there'd be improper repair/warranty claims attempted, etc.
TokyoGuy said:
Any thoughts?
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Click to collapse
One. You're pitting your subjective preferences against a PhD holding expert that tested the display using a battery of standardized tests using sophisticated equipment.
Absolute Color Accuracy for Each of the Screen Modes
For each of the Screen Modes we carefully measure the Absolute Color Accuracy using an advanced series of spectroradiometer measurements with 41 Reference Colors that provide a detailed map of the Color Accuracy throughout the entire Color Gamut for each Screen Mode.
Absolute Color Accuracy is measured in terms of Just Noticeable Color Differences, JNCD. See this Figure for an explanation and visual definition of JNCD and the detailed Color Accuracy Plots showing the measured Color Errors for the 41 Reference Colors for each Color Gamut. For all of the calibrated Screen Modes, the Galaxy Note7 has uniformly Very Good to Excellent Absolute Color Accuracy. See our detailed Absolute Color Accuracy Plots with 41 Reference Colors for the 3 calibrated screen Modes and also this regarding Bogus Color Accuracy Measurements.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note7_ShootOut_1.htmSo you not liking what you're seeing doesn't mean what you're seeing isn't accurate.
BarryH_GEG said:
One. You're pitting your subjective preferences against a PhD holding expert that tested the display using a battery of standardized tests using sophisticated equipment.
Absolute Color Accuracy for Each of the Screen Modes
For each of the Screen Modes we carefully measure the Absolute Color Accuracy using an advanced series of spectroradiometer measurements with 41 Reference Colors that provide a detailed map of the Color Accuracy throughout the entire Color Gamut for each Screen Mode.
Absolute Color Accuracy is measured in terms of Just Noticeable Color Differences, JNCD. See this Figure for an explanation and visual definition of JNCD and the detailed Color Accuracy Plots showing the measured Color Errors for the 41 Reference Colors for each Color Gamut. For all of the calibrated Screen Modes, the Galaxy Note7 has uniformly Very Good to Excellent Absolute Color Accuracy. See our detailed Absolute Color Accuracy Plots with 41 Reference Colors for the 3 calibrated screen Modes and also this regarding Bogus Color Accuracy Measurements.
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note7_ShootOut_1.htmSo you not liking what you're seeing doesn't mean what you're seeing isn't accurate.
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Click to collapse
Wait a sec I think you might have misread or misinterpreted my original comments. I never claimed the display was in any way inaccurate, in fact IIRC a point was even raised about my having seen the analysis reports and such. My comment was purely a subjective one, that I don't like the new calibration in light of a personal preference towards truer-than-life color reproduction on a display. My asking for comments was not to challenge the accuracy of reports stating the Note 7 is properly calibrated, rather it was just to reach out and see if anyone also preferred the "old style" color tendencies.
IIRC someone in this topic mentioned about how Samsung might not want users to play with the calibration settings (thus no manual control) as it would potentially lead to creating a bad impression for anyone who saw any given user's device and didn't like the color reproduction. But I would argue that this is the inherent problem of Android, and OEM skins to boot. Just looking at some of the people here in Japan, and the phone(s) they are using with absolutely grotesque levels of carrier bloatware and skins (NTT docomo is by far the worst), I often feel Android is being misrepresented both to the user and to the market itself.
Many times people have said how "my phone is so slow" or "I don't like all these apps on it" and I've tried to explain how that's entirely the result of (1) the Docomo skin, or (2) the fact that it's a carrier model. Now adays more people are starting to at least know OF factory unlocked products though actually buying them is another issue entirely. I'd wager anyone not actively interested in tech around the world really has no interest in spending the better part of 1K on a top-end flagship sold factory unlocked. Thus people take what they can get for as low as they can get it for.
Anyway, going back to the original topic of the display, Samsung really shouldn't worry about how users might "sully" the beauty of AMOLED given that carriers already do enough to cause even the best phone(s) to be "broken" and that shapes someone's impressions just as much.
Now I actually have the Note 7 my anxiety over the colour saturation and screen modes has been eradicated! The display does not disappoint in any way and adaptive mode is surprisingly. . perfect!
I notice the difference between my Note 7 and my Galaxy Tab S, they look different but the Note 7 is equally good.
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Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
tokyoguy, Really, I dont know what device you are talking about, or got yourself a really, really defective one, my screen is the best I have ever had, I hat 4 other samsung models, 2 sony, etc, this one the note7 is the best for me
On Notebookcheck the review states that the pwm is bad below 80% brightness and that people who are sensitive could have trouble with this screen. Can anyone conform or deny this?
Spindarella said:
On Notebookcheck the review states that the pwm is bad below 80% brightness and that people who are sensitive could have trouble with this screen. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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Click to collapse
What is pwm?
I keep our three V30 at 70% all the time, because I don't like LG "auto brightness" which is too dim. 70% is plenty bright, and I read on my phone all day long, with no eye strain.
Sent via open market LG US998 V30/V30+
ChazzMatt said:
What is pwm?
I keep our three V30 at 70% all the time, because I don't like LG "auto brightness" which is too dim. 70% is plenty bright, and I read on my phone all day long, with no eye strain.
Sent via open market LG US998 V30/V30+
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Click to collapse
PWM is short for Pulse Width Modulation. "Pulse-Width Modulation, or PWM, is one of the ways display makers can use to adjust the display's brightness. PWM is considered to be an easy (or cost-effective) way to control the brightness, but it has serious drawbacks, such as flicker that may cause eye strain and headaches."
I am sensitive for the flickering because of a muscle disease and not sure if I can order the LG V30. On Notebookcheck it states: "The display backlight flickers at 227 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 80 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting. The frequency of 227 Hz is relatively low, so sensitive users will likely notice flickering and experience eyestrain at the stated brightness setting and below."
But this is the only site who mention it, so I am not sure if it's correct.
You should probably avoid Oled/Amoled screens altogether if your eyes are sensitive - they all flicker at lower brightness. Personally I've had multiple devices with Oled screens and did notice eyestrain in the first times I've used them, perhaps because I never had a monotor with PWM, but it has gone completely now.
Hey, when you're reading German reviews, I think you are from a German speaking country. In Germany, the electronics markets from Saturn and Media Markt both have V30 as usable sample devices in every store I went to. Why don't you check it out
I don't notice flickering or headache when using the device at low brightness, but I'm noticing flickering on CRT Tubes. So yeah, check yourself before you buy
Gesendet von meinem LG-H930 mit Tapatalk
These screens are not perfect! If you get one that shows issues at 80%, then return it. If you get one that shows issues at 50%, return it! 20% and down doesn't seem to be too bad for some. Personally, I didn't have very good luck getting an H933 but my first H932 was good. Actually better than my H933. Try all white or all grey backgrounds to see how bad the one you get is.
Gottylol said:
You should probably avoid Oled/Amoled screens altogether if your eyes are sensitive - they all flicker at lower brightness. Personally I've had multiple devices with Oled screens and did notice eyestrain in the first times I've used them, perhaps because I never had a monotor with PWM, but it has gone completely now.
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Click to collapse
A lot of LCD panels use PWM for brightness too. It only becomes a problem when the frequency is very low (to begin with). But maybe I'll go for the HTC u11 plus than. Uses PWM also but in higher frequency.
Hey, when you're reading German reviews, I think you are from a German speaking country. In Germany, the electronics markets from Saturn and Media Markt both have V30 as usable sample devices in every store I went to. Why don't you check it out
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I am from the Netherlands but the reviews are translated in English I can check it out but will order somewhere else. So was hoping for some experience here. Not many sensitive eyes on XDA
These screens are not perfect! If you get one that shows issues at 80%, then return it. If you get one that shows issues at 50%, return it!
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The problem is with my eyes
Spindarella said:
But maybe I'll go for the HTC u11 plus than. Uses PWM also but in higher frequency.
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Dont Pick the HTC U11 plus! Get the V30!
I have head both (and a Pixel 2 xl) and returned all after a week:
I am not a LG Fanboy (actually I'm angry, that they didnt Roll Out the Oreo Update yet) but:
Camera, Design, Feeling, Size, Software,... everything is better in the V30!
The most negative thing on the HTC U11 plus was the absolute dark Screen brightness, even on 100%.
Also ist was very slippery and the beatiful transparent Design was only visible in a certain Viewing Angle.
A lot of LCD panels use PWM for brightness too. It only becomes a problem when the frequency is very low (to begin with). But maybe I'll go for the HTC u11 plus than. Uses PWM also but in higher frequency.
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Yeah, I'm aware, but I haven't heared of people complaining about that on phones. Must be at a high frequency or not used too often at all. I know a lot of monitors used to have PWN with a low frequency but I've used PWM-free ones just to avoid possible eye strain and probably that's why I did experience it for a bit after first using OLED screens.
Dont Pick the HTC U11 plus! Get the V30!
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Well, he's specifically worried about getting the V30 due to the screen...
And I disagree, I've had the U11 (not plus) for a half a year and I prefer my V30 but the U11 definitely had a better camera (much better in low-light) and imo software. It was also faster and had less stutters and framedrops. It was an amazing phone really, so can't go wrong if you're afraid that OLED will give you eye strain.
In reality V30 must have PWM @ 227Hz.
But in reality observers who tested V30 said that their eyes aren't strained from V30 display while they do strain from 1+5T for example
So, best bet for you should be to buy it with moneyback, test for yourself and get money back if your eyes would suffer
With PWM not only frequency does matter but also % of duty cycle
But in reality observers who tested V30 said that their eyes aren't strained from V30 display while they do strain from 1+5T for example
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That's interesting because I watch a local reviewer and he says that his eyes are sensitive so he always mentions eye strain when reviewing phones. He said that the 1+5t screen was great overall but gave him eye strain, while the V30's screen didn't.
I never gave it much thought but I guess it matches your findnings.
Gottylol said:
Yeah, I'm aware, but I haven't heared of people complaining about that on phones. Must be at a high frequency or not used too often at all. I know a lot of monitors used to have PWN with a low frequency but I've used PWM-free ones just to avoid possible eye strain and probably that's why I did experience it for a bit after first using OLED screens.
Well, he's specifically worried about getting the V30 due to the screen...
And I disagree, I've had the U11 (not plus) for a half a year and I prefer my V30 but the U11 definitely had a better camera (much better in low-light) and imo software. It was also faster and had less stutters and framedrops. It was an amazing phone really, so can't go wrong if you're afraid that OLED will give you eye strain.
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The U11 plus uses high frequency. There people can get eye restrain below 30% health. The htc 11 doesn;t work with PWM (and has a nicer screeen than the plus).
BTW, he is she
Heard today that the lg g7 gets a M LCD display. Maybe wait for may to see what the new device will bring.
@Billy Madison, I can't watch the video (removed?).
Here it's a bit difficult to buy with moneyback.
I also suffer from headaches from PWM in displays (as well as other screen factors), and seem to be sensitive to certain phones so am also fussy.
From my v30+ testing I have found PWM that I notice, to occur at 41% and lower, so for me this makes the phone usable as I generally set it around 50-100% (or set it at 65% in the morning with auto on).
I have not tried a photodiode/oscilloscope on the display (yet), just pencil swinging, fan, and high speed shutter on camera to verify when the change occurs.
ixbt. com/mobile/lg-v30plus-review.html#n3
seems like even though frequency is low but the ampiltude is relatively little also, maybe that is the case
i have been using pixel 6 for 10 days now and i can say that camera quality is top class but in other area phone is below average. the sound quality from bluetooth is not up to the mark, Even the internet speed is not good(on 4G), i donn't think it supports carrier aggregation. the quality of the display is also average. What do you think guys?
Well, bluetooth is digital, so if you've got a problem with the quality of sound coming out your bluetooth speakers, then you should either look at the quality of the speakers or the limitations of bluetooth.
LTE internet speed looks good to me? Just hit 135 Mbps on a speed test, which I ran just because I was curious after what you said. Kind of shocked actually, I've never seen a phone speed test that high, and its certainly a lot more than I could ever need. What are you expecting to see for speed?
Display being average, I'd definitely have to attribute that to your personal choices. There are two pixel 6's to choose from and you picked the one that explicitly has the crappier display.
My LTE is the same as my old S9. I get 42 Mbps at home. We have a vacation home where our fiber is 30, and 30 is plenty to have YouTube TV streaming and two people on ZOOM calls. Don't over think the whole speed issue, for most of us it is inconsequential.
This is all purely opinion. I switched from a Pixel 3, and it's a fantastic upgrade. Either your expectations of a 600$ phone were too high, or you're just here trying to troll people into buying something else. Like 96carboard said, BT is digital and all dependent on the speaker on the other end, and the internet speed could have something to do with your carrier.
I'm extremely happy with this phone, the screen is fine, I really can't be bothered about refresh rates cos I don't game. The reviews seem to be so picky over triviality and my 4G speed is excellent
I'm in the same boat. I came from the OP6T McLaren and I prefer the lighter thinner feel of that phone. The camera in this Pixel 6 just blows the OP away and that's probably the only reason I am using it. Still looking for super thin light case to make this just as small as possible.
ikrn said:
i have been using pixel 6 for 10 days now and i can say that camera quality is top class but in other area phone is below average. the sound quality from bluetooth is not up to the mark, Even the internet speed is not good(on 4G), i donn't think it supports carrier aggregation. the quality of the display is also average. What do you think guys?
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Agreed. My speed was consistently better on OnePlus 7 pro as was reception. Modem on this thing sucks. I want to love this phone so bad but there's just too much wrong with it. I've now noticed that on dark mode when in apps like settings or play store, whatever has the generic dark background, my screen is darker on the right side. And every time the refresh rate switches from 90 to 60hz there's a noticable change in color hue.
opz187 said:
Agreed. My speed was consistently better on OnePlus 7 pro as was reception. Modem on this thing sucks. I want to love this phone so bad but there's just too much wrong with it. I've now noticed that on dark mode when in apps like settings or play store, whatever has the generic dark background, my screen is darker on the right side. And every time the refresh rate switches from 90 to 60hz there's a noticable change in color hue.
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You can force 90Hz on in the developer options.
starbiker99 said:
I'm in the same boat. I came from the OP6T McLaren and I prefer the lighter thinner feel of that phone. The camera in this Pixel 6 just blows the OP away and that's probably the only reason I am using it. Still looking for super thin light case to make this just as small as possible.
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Click to collapse
The Google case adds next to nothing to the feel of the phone in the hand. I've held a couple black cases that offer better protection and also a clear case that offers better protection and by comparison the Google case just feels smaller.
I've been stuck in quarantine so I haven't tried the phone's modem in areas outside of my home and testing at home sucks because coverage has always sucked around me as there aren't any towers close by. I can say that the WiFi is better than on the LG G8X. It handles the hand-off between 2.4GHz to 5GHz and also mesh zones without issue (though I do drop WiFi calls during those transitions).
I do wish the display showed yellows and oranges differently. They seem kinda dull to me and I'm assuming it's what makes skin tones look occasionally off. Though maybe it's also a byproduct of using dark mode?
ikrn said:
i have been using pixel 6 for 10 days now and i can say that camera quality is top class but in other area phone is below average. the sound quality from bluetooth is not up to the mark, Even the internet speed is not good(on 4G), i donn't think it supports carrier aggregation. the quality of the display is also average. What do you think guys?
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Would be interesting to know which phone you came from, since the P6 is a budget/midrange product with some clear trade-offs (screen in particular), so are your expectations realistic? This is not a 1000 dollar Flagship phone.
So considering that the P6 has a Gorilla Glass Victus, 90hz OLED for a 599 bucks phone, "average" is, well, acceptable.
Morgrain said:
Would be interesting to know which phone you came from, since the P6 is a budget/midrange product with some clear trade-offs (screen in particular), so are your expectations realistic? This is not a 1000 dollar Flagship phone.
So considering that the P6 has a Gorilla Glass Victus, 90hz OLED for a 599 bucks phone, "average" is, well, acceptable.
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First of all, a "flag ship" is something very specific that has nothing at all to do with phones. Secondly, even if you do try to use this military term, it does not in any way imply the best or most advanced.
Third, these (p6/p6p) are most definitely extremely high priced and top end phones, nothing average about them.
The only part of what you said that I agree with is that the screen (on p6-nonP only) is not the very greatest. But that's a choice you make when you buy the smaller one.
96carboard said:
First of all, a "flag ship" is something very specific that has nothing at all to do with phones. Secondly, even if you do try to use this military term, it does not in any way imply the best or most advanced.
Third, these (p6/p6p) are most definitely extremely high priced and top end phones, nothing average about them.
The only part of what you said that I agree with is that the screen (on p6-nonP only) is not the very greatest. But that's a choice you make when you buy the smaller one.
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I do not quite see the need for your alleged know-it-all. Firstly, Flagship (no separation) is an established term to describe the most important product that an organization owns/produces. You might not realize it, but terms slash words can have several meanings. I know, it might be something new, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.
Therefore, secondly, yes, of course the most important product implies the best or most advanced. You are making confused claims.
For further studies (I can only suggest self-study at this point):
flagship noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
Definition of flagship noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.
www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com
Definition of flagship | Dictionary.com
Flagship definition, a ship carrying the flag officer or the commander of a fleet, squadron, or the like, and displaying the officer's flag. See more.
www.dictionary.com
For a further assessment, I suggest you open a channel to the Oxford Dictionary or Thesaurus immediately and have them rectify their vocabulary, since - apparently - you are the master of the English language.
Thirdly, if you consider a 599 $ phone (P6) to be extremely high-priced, then you seem to have slept for the last five years. Since Flagships start at 800 bananas, Super Flagships start at 1000 bananas and "Ultra" Flagships start at roughly 1300 $ bananas (using the jargon of Tech Reviewers here), the P6 can only be considered Midrange to higher Midrange. Every other assessment is unrealistic and defies reality, which I would not recommend.
Whether you like this development, or not, is another matter entirely. Reality doesn't change just because a single person wants it to. That takes a little more motivation.
opz187 said:
Agreed. My speed was consistently better on OnePlus 7 pro as was reception. Modem on this thing sucks. I want to love this phone so bad but there's just too much wrong with it. I've now noticed that on dark mode when in apps like settings or play store, whatever has the generic dark background, my screen is darker on the right side. And every time the refresh rate switches from 90 to 60hz there's a noticable change in color hue.
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As if flagship OnePlus phones didn't have various software/networking issues in the weeks following their launch or in some cases, to date unfixed.
It's baffling to me how easily people pass judgment and give up based on minor details unrelated to hardware.
I look at this as a mid-range device. It has good specifications for the price range. If I had wanted all the features, I would have went with the Pro.
Battery life is my only real complaint. Its not bad but it's not great either.
No trouble with my speed the phone camera is awesome build quality bid disappointed in as the black on the sides of the phone is starting to come off
Morgrain said:
Would be interesting to know which phone you came from, since the P6 is a budget/midrange product with some clear trade-offs (screen in particular), so are your expectations realistic? This is not a 1000 dollar Flagship phone.
So considering that the P6 has a Gorilla Glass Victus, 90hz OLED for a 599 bucks phone, "average" is, well, acceptable.
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Click to collapse
Oneplus 7t pro
96carboard said:
Well, bluetooth is digital, so if you've got a problem with the quality of sound coming out your bluetooth speakers, then you should either look at the quality of the speakers or the limitations of bluetooth.
LTE internet speed looks good to me? Just hit 135 Mbps on a speed test, which I ran just because I was curious after what you said. Kind of shocked actually, I've never seen a phone speed test that high, and its certainly a lot more than I could ever need. What are you expecting to see for speed?
Display being average, I'd definitely have to attribute that to your personal choices. There are two pixel 6's to choose from and you picked the one that explicitly has the crappier display.
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I am using pixel buds and Bose qc 35 ii as my daily driver. The soung quality is average.
Incanity said:
This is all purely opinion. I switched from a Pixel 3, and it's a fantastic upgrade. Either your expectations of a 600$ phone were too high, or you're just here trying to troll people into buying something else. Like 96carboard said, BT is digital and all dependent on the speaker on the other end, and the internet speed could have something to do with your carrier.
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I was using op7t pro before.. the sound quality from bluetooth and the display on oneplus 7t pro is awesome.
starbiker99 said:
I'm in the same boat. I came from the OP6T McLaren and I prefer the lighter thinner feel of that phone. The camera in this Pixel 6 just blows the OP away and that's probably the only reason I am using it. Still looking for super thin light case to make this just as small as possible.
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Yes the disp
opz187 said:
Agreed. My speed was consistently better on OnePlus 7 pro as was reception. Modem on this thing sucks. I want to love this phone so bad but there's just too much wrong with it. I've now noticed that on dark mode when in apps like settings or play store, whatever has the generic dark background, my screen is darker on the right side. And every time the refresh rate switches from 90 to 60hz there's a noticable change in color hue.
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The only reason I am using pixel 6 is camera!
Morgrain said:
Would be interesting to know which phone you came from, since the P6 is a budget/midrange product with some clear trade-offs (screen in particular), so are your expectations realistic? This is not a 1000 dollar Flagship phone.
So considering that the P6 has a Gorilla Glass Victus, 90hz OLED for a 599 bucks phone, "average" is, well, acceptable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was using oneplus 7t pro befor (90 hz quad hd display). It cost me same as pixel 6
See:
Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra review: Refined to near perfection
The Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra is a more refined Galaxy S22 Ultra, and while it might have features you don't need, it's one of the best.
www.xda-developers.com
I predict another dud flagship. Too thick, too heavy with a so-so display/bezel ratio. With poor SOT for the huge mAh battery.
No expandable storage; the high capacity internal memory variants will be in short supply and thus very expensive, predictably. And of course a huge price tag until Samsung realizes it's not selling well, again. This will make it 4 years running that Samsung has failed to deliver an exceptional, well balanced flagship.
That's what I think...
blackhawk said:
I predict another dud flagship. Too thick, too heavy with a so-so display/bezel ratio. With poor SOT for the huge mAh battery.
No expandable storage; the high capacity internal memory variants will be in short supply and thus very expensive, predictably. And of course a huge price tag until Samsung realizes it's not selling well, again. This will make it 4 years running that Samsung has failed to deliver an exceptional, well balanced flagship.
That's what I think...
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Battery should be much better since the 8 Gen 2 is a TSMC chip.
There's very little that can be done about battery when 5G is enabled but even with it, the X70 is said to be up to 40% more efficient than the X65 was.
EtherealRemnant said:
Battery should be much better since the 8 Gen 2 is a TSMC chip.
There's very little that can be done about battery when 5G is enabled but even with it, the X70 is said to be up to 40% more efficient than the X65 was.
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Time will tell. I doubt it will improve the SOT much. There's also the burden of the variable refresh rate display. Not sure how much more scoped storage impacts battery life but it requires more cpu cycles.
Starting with the N20U the batteries have gotten bigger, as has the thickness and weight of all the Samsung flagships. At the same time even with the larger capacity batteries the SOT decreased.
Poor form factor and performance balance have now become Samsung's flagship hallmark.
Their last great flagship remains the N10+. No 5G or variable refresh rate display but more functional with a display color/gamma accuracy/calibration that likely exceeds all those that followed. If Samsung adopted a fixed 90hz display refresh rate much better color/gamma accuracy could be achieved. They won't do this because Samsung is now marketing hype rather than performance driven. Case in point how many megapixels will the new cam sensor have?
For that tiny sized sensor 20mp is pushing it. Little doubt the mp count will continue to climb at the cost of pixel light gathering ability and sampling accuracy. The newer generations of Samsung cams seem to be very power hungry as well.
What a sick joke.
The laser AF is a great benefit. That should have been implemented 5 or more years ago. Sony was using this technology back in 2004 on its cams. Not to worry if you don't have it as a 3mw 535nm laser pointer can be used for spot on AF lock ups on older phones
Battery like on my SD Ultra S22 is why I am upgrading. It was terrible from the start nothing has really changed.
borijess said:
Battery like on my SD Ultra S22 is why I am upgrading. It was terrible from the start nothing has really changed.
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If you want good SOT go with a N10+*, they get 12+ hours SOT with a new battery. Browsing with Brave I was using 6%@hr when this battery was newer. A better balanced and more usable device... even today**.
The S23U is already shaping up to be more of the same Samsung bs... 3+ years of fail and ball drops.
*stock Snaps that are optimized. All Samsung's should be optimized for best performance and SOT.
** I'm running Pie and Q so no CPU cycle sucking scoped storage. You'll be stuck with Android 12, 13 or 14 on the S23U. 13 is a mess. Google is more Apple now (as is Samsung) than it is Android... more dropped balls rolling around inside the machine.
blackhawk said:
You'll be stuck with Android 12, 13 or 14 on the S23U. 13 is a mess.
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I actually disagree with this. 13 has been great. I didn't like 8/Oreo because of how many apps they broke and 10 was slower than 11. 12 had some regressions and random quirks but 13 has been great. I don't actually have any specific OS-related complaints, just phone complaints about the Pixel 7 Pro, but if I'm being honest, I'm really just being petty, because the 7 Pro is great device that would serve most people well.
The reason I'm looking at the S23 series is specifically because of band support. I have Boost Infinite which uses AT&T towers so I want access to the 3.45GHz DoD spectrum and the Pixel 7 Pro's modem doesn't support it. Additionally Boost Infinite will be switching to using Dish Network's 5G network as it's primary and the Pixel doesn't support n70 and multiple other bands Dish is using.
Also, I just haven't had Samsung since the Note 5 and my partner has a Samsung A51 and I have played with it and actually kind of like it, so it just feels like it is time.
The Note 10+ is missing way too much for me to consider it. I'm not giving up 5G. The modem in that device has extremely limited and largely incomplete 5G support.
EtherealRemnant said:
I actually disagree with this. 13 has been great. I didn't like 8/Oreo because of how many apps they broke and 10 was slower than 11. 12 had some regressions and random quirks but 13 has been great. I don't actually have any specific OS-related complaints, just phone complaints about the Pixel 7 Pro, but if I'm being honest, I'm really just being petty, because the 7 Pro is great device that would serve most people well.
The reason I'm looking at the S23 series is specifically because of band support. I have Boost Infinite which uses AT&T towers so I want access to the 3.45GHz DoD spectrum and the Pixel 7 Pro's modem doesn't support it. Additionally Boost Infinite will be switching to using Dish Network's 5G network as it's primary and the Pixel doesn't support n70 and multiple other bands Dish is using.
Also, I just haven't had Samsung since the Note 5 and my partner has a Samsung A51 and I have played with it and actually kind of like it, so it just feels like it is time.
The Note 10+ is missing way too much for me to consider it. I'm not giving up 5G. The modem in that device has extremely limited and largely incomplete 5G support.
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Click to collapse
Agreed, I wouldn't get the 5G N10+ variant. With an unlimited grandfathered 4G data plan it's a no brainer. Since 5G started rolling out 4G has even better bandwidth. Because many websites limit data speeds even the 4G download speed isn't fully utilized most times. The power drain of 5G remains an issue on the newer models as does the SOC, display and camera. They reached the thermal limits of the available surface area. The N10+ can operate at a 99F ambient temperature doing internet browsing with no cooling for an extended time because it's using less power and producing less waste heat.
Storage is inadequate and expensive on all models after the N20U.
30 gms heavier, worse display/ratio and a much worse SOT than the N10+. Not a well balanced flagship at all. S23U is more of the same... bs.
The claims that Android 11, 12 or 13 are more efficient than 9 I have severe doubts about. Even if Google implements a more efficient file system the overhead of scoped storage* remains. I like to see a side by side comparison on a N10+ running on 9 vs 10, 11 and 12. No one does that.
*In Android 10 scoped storage isn't fully active. It doesn't seem faster than Pie and SOT may be slightly worse. Still playing with my other N10+ that was factory loaded with Q. I prefer Pie as it's more functional and easier to troubleshoot.
blackhawk said:
If you want good SOT go with a N10+*, they get 12+ hours SOT with a new battery. Browsing with Brave I was using 6%@hr when this battery was newer. A better balanced and more usable device... even today**.
The S23U is already shaping up to be more of the same Samsung bs... 3+ years of fail and ball drops.
*stock Snaps that are optimized. All Samsung's should be optimized for best performance and SOT.
** I'm running Pie and Q so no CPU cycle sucking scoped storage. You'll be stuck with Android 12, 13 or 14 on the S23U. 13 is a mess. Google is more Apple now (as is Samsung) than it is Android... more dropped balls rolling around inside the machine.
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Click to collapse
That's not what I am looking for. I want the latest and greatest to have good battery life. Not great but just good. I had the note 20 ultra and that thing had better battery than the s22 ultra. I am just hoping Samsung has figured it out with the s23.
borijess said:
That's not what I am looking for. I want the latest and greatest to have good battery life. Not great but just good. I had the note 20 ultra and that thing had better battery than the s22 ultra. I am just hoping Samsung has figured it out with the s23.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expect another hand warmer...
blackhawk said:
Expect another hand warmer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope not.
borijess said:
I hope not.
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Don't be the first to buy it. Samsung's recent track record speaks for itself. Besides they'll be more desperate after 6 months to sell the excess units. Predictably there will be a shortage of 1 and .5tb variants though.
blackhawk said:
Case in point how many megapixels will the new cam sensor have?
For that tiny sized sensor 20mp is pushing it. Little doubt the mp count will continue to climb at the cost of pixel light gathering ability and sampling accuracy. The newer generations of Samsung cams seem to be very power hungry as well.
What a sick joke.
The laser AF is a great benefit. That should have been implemented 5 or more years ago. Sony was using this technology back in 2004 on its cams. Not to worry if you don't have it as a 3mw 535nm laser pointer can be used for spot on AF lock ups on older phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You doubt but i don't since i now use gen 2 and before i used 2 gen 1 phones, the difference in battery is huge, incomparable
About the sensor, here is some technical info, it is miles better vs HM3 on 22U.
三星两亿像素HP2技术解析：大满阱，双增益，与全向对焦
刚刚发布的三星HP2极有可能成为S23Ultra主摄CMOS，尺寸1/1.3''，两亿像素十六合一，单像素0.6微米。从尺寸上看并不出奇，但这次三星点到了另一个科技树。 超大满阱容与D-VTG技术HP2的亮点在于其采用的D-VT…
zhuanlan.zhihu.com
Its not about the megapixels but what tech is in it, and what it can do, this sensor is almost on imx 989 level
dazed1 said:
You doubt but i don't since i now use gen 2 and before i used 2 gen 1 phones, the difference in battery is huge, incomparable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new Samsung phones are battery hogs.
dazed1 said:
About the sensor, here is some technical info, it is miles better vs HM3 on 22U.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not my second language...
dazed1 said:
三星两亿像素HP2技术解析：大满阱，双增益，与全向对焦
刚刚发布的三星HP2极有可能成为S23Ultra主摄CMOS，尺寸1/1.3''，两亿像素十六合一，单像素0.6微米。从尺寸上看并不出奇，但这次三星点到了另一个科技树。 超大满阱容与D-VTG技术HP2的亮点在于其采用的D-VT…
zhuanlan.zhihu.com
Its not about the megapixels but what tech is in it, and what it can do, this sensor is almost on imx 989 level
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Micro lenses that small have less light gathering ability and waste real estate. The borders of those lens are wasted space, lots of wasted space on a sensor that has very little to spare. The quality of the micro lens are also suspect.
Pixel micro lense quality and individual pixel sampling capabilities are more important than pixel count. 12mp is a reasonable number and 20+mp is pure hype for a sensor this size.
A Canon pro shooter with a full frame sensor is only about 22-26mp. They will chew up any smartphone. Full frame digital movie cams boast a huge pixel count in the 20-40mp range.
blackhawk said:
The new Samsung phones are battery hogs.
Not my second language...
Micro lenses that small have less light gathering ability and waste real estate. The borders of those lens are wasted space, lots of wasted space on a sensor that has very little to spare. The quality of the micro lens are also suspect.
Pixel micro lense quality and individual pixel sampling capabilities are more important than pixel count. 12mp is a reasonable number and 20+mp is pure hype for a sensor this size.
A Canon pro shooter with a full frame sensor is only about 22-26mp. They will chew up any smartphone. Full frame digital movie cams boast a huge pixel count in the 20-40mp range.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The link is in English, it address all of your concerns and ideas, this sensor FWC is 10k, it is monster in low light
In what segment of photography will canon chew up smartphones? Certainly in won't in single frame and low light with normal exposure times on both
dazed1 said:
The link is in English, it address all of your concerns and ideas, this sensor FWC is 10k, it is monster in low light
In what segment of photography will canon chew up smartphones? Certainly in won't in single frame and low light with normal exposure times on both
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Click to collapse
Single frame and especially low light. The large metal frame provides superior heat sinking and the sensor is also thermally isolated from the processors for a lower noise floor in low light.
A heavier frame with good hand holds means it's much easier to shoot with. Much faster bootups and almost no shutter lag.
On top of that huge lens are available. Some with 200mm front optics for optimum light gathering.
Smartphones do very well with what they got. I view the cam as a convenience not a dedicated shooting platform. Anymore it's all I shoot with. They have limitations and are harder to shoot with than dedicated systems. With no expandable storage they lack onboard backup, a huge disadvantage. Canon has had dual card/write capabilities for around 20 years on their pro models.
The shooter's skill is more important than the camera, one reason they're killing the camera market. On that same line of thinking the improvements on the newest smartphone cams won't make you a great shooter if you aren't.
blackhawk said:
Single frame and especially low light. The large metal frame provides superior heat sinking and the sensor is also thermally isolated from the processors for a lower noise floor in low light.
A heavier frame with good hand holds means it's much easier to shoot with. Much faster bootups and almost no shutter lag.
On top of that huge lens are available. Some with 200mm front optics for optimum light gathering.
Smartphones do very well with what they got. I view the cam as a convenience not a dedicated shooting platform. Anymore it's all I shoot with. They have limitations and are harder to shoot with than dedicated systems. With no expandable storage they lack onboard backup, a huge disadvantage. Canon has had dual card/write capabilities for around 20 years on their pro models.
The shooter's skill is more important than the camera, one reason they're killing the camera market. On that same line of thinking the improvements on the newest smartphone cams won't make you a great shooter if you aren't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most tests i saw by now DSLR vs phone (custom software on the phone - GCAM) results in either close battle, or win for the smartphone on lowish, and especially in low light.
There are numerous versus, if you are interested i can find samples. Single frame dslr cannot compete with 1'' sensor with 30 frames stacked and super advanced denoise algorithims/ISP, it will either burn the highlights, or be just dark.
Where dslr wins, is action shots, long range zooms, astro, portrait and video, not for static shooting.
Here is an example what a phone does in quite dark conditions, with advanced setup,
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dazed1 said:
Most tests i saw by now DSLR vs phone (custom software on the phone - GCAM) results in either close battle, or win for the smartphone on lowish, and especially in low light.
There are numerous versus, if you are interested i can find samples. Single frame dslr cannot compete with 1'' sensor with 30 frames stacked and super advanced denoise algorithims/ISP, it will either burn the highlights, or be just dark.
Where dslr wins, is action shots, long range zooms, astro, portrait and video, not for static shooting.
Here is an example what a phone does in quite dark conditions, with advanced setup,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what phone has a 1 inch sensor?
Full frame sensors are 24×36mm ie 1.339 sq inches.
Believe what you want to... at least it will save you $10+G.
blackhawk said:
Lol, what phone has a 1 inch sensor?
Full frame sensors are 24×36mm ie 1.339 sq inches.
Believe what you want to... at least it will save you $10+G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not real 1'' but its very big, its bigger then Sony RX100 for example, its 132mm2, and sensor size doesnt matter as much when you got 30 frames stacked, that remove like 80% of the noise, and bring much more "light" into the sensor. No need to believe, ive seen the results,
And low light action shots? Books and parked cars don't move... people do.