I'm lucky enough to be able to test multiple new phones and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this phone. The cameras are worse than my LG v40 (with gcam mod of course), it's impossible to type with one hand because you're always touching the curved screen with the side of your hand so nothing actually comes out correctly without having to fix it 10X and Samsung has removed the ability to change basic settings like removing icon borders or change their size. Nothing about this phone is appealing and I LOVE Samsung phones. I've had a Note since the Note 2 (I'm typing this on a note 9) but this phone is just crap. The fingerprint reader is barely passable and bixby (although able to be turned off) is at best an annoyance. Please don't waste your time with this
overpriced paperweight, it's just junk.
JarkMackson said:
I'm lucky enough to be able to test multiple new phones and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this phone. The cameras are worse than my LG v40 (with gcam mod of course), it's impossible to type with one hand because you're always touching the curved screen with the side of your hand so nothing actually comes out correctly without having to fix it 10X and Samsung has removed the ability to change basic settings like removing icon borders or change their size. Nothing about this phone is appealing and I LOVE Samsung phones. I've had a Note since the Note 2 (I'm typing this on a note 9) but this phone is just crap. The fingerprint reader is barely passable and bixby (although able to be turned off) is at best an annoyance. Please don't waste your time with this
overpriced paperweight, it's just junk.
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Click to collapse
Don´t buy it if you don´t like it, but I wouldn´t go as far as to call a Samsung Galaxy stinks, maybe an iPhone yeah but never a Samsung. :angel:
the smell is pretty good if u ask me, duno why ur stinks
definitely overpriced overhyped overrated. i read about annoyances, problems, design flaws. too many for such an expensive device. i wanted s9 for size. when i saw 10e even smaller with same screen size i bought it. expected more. no curved edges, can type, no problems. i didn't pay full retail price so it's barely acceptable for me. my next phone will be sd6xx-7xx mid range. no need to waste money on so much useless bs and samsung name.
Aluyi said:
Don´t buy it if you don´t like it, but I wouldn´t go as far as to call a Samsung Galaxy stinks, maybe an iPhone yeah but never a Samsung. :angel:
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This phone reminds me of the s5. Another Samsung miss.
destz0r said:
the smell is pretty good if u ask me, duno why ur stinks
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Click to collapse
Eventually we get used to a certain smell...
JarkMackson said:
This phone reminds me of the s5. Another Samsung miss.
Eventually we get used to a certain smell...
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Click to collapse
I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but I'll bet yours isn't a majority opinion of the phone. So, it's not up to your high standards, I'm sure we'll live and somehow make do with it until something comes along that you'll approve for us. Yours is an opinion and nothing more, to be taken with a grain of salt.
Tel864 said:
I'm sure everyone has an opinion, but I'll bet yours isn't a majority opinion of the phone. So, it's not up to your high standards, I'm sure we'll live and somehow make do with it until something comes along that you'll approve for us. Yours is an opinion and nothing more, to be taken with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As is yours.
JarkMackson said:
I'm lucky enough to be able to test multiple new phones and I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this phone. The cameras are worse than my LG v40 (with gcam mod of course), it's impossible to type with one hand because you're always touching the curved screen with the side of your hand so nothing actually comes out correctly without having to fix it 10X and Samsung has removed the ability to change basic settings like removing icon borders or change their size. Nothing about this phone is appealing and I LOVE Samsung phones. I've had a Note since the Note 2 (I'm typing this on a note 9) but this phone is just crap. The fingerprint reader is barely passable and bixby (although able to be turned off) is at best an annoyance. Please don't waste your time with this
overpriced paperweight, it's just junk.
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Click to collapse
Nothing about this statement or whatever this actually is, wouldn't even call it an opinion.
Your just stating user specific issues, and ok your entitled to express, but in doing so be more elaborate.
The S10+ has
Snapdragon 855/Exynos 9820
8/128gb Ram or 8/512 or 12/1tb
IP 68
Expandable memory
Great camera's
Headphone jack
Best display in class
To call this Junk is well bold but rather foolish, but I guess your just fishing for responses.
Now comparisons yes this costs say to a OnePlus 6T but this device has everything that that doesn't also.
Your saying the Ultrasonic fingerprint is barely usable, well many said that about the optical and well they were full of it as I never had an issue, as for the Ultrasonic i haven't received mine yet so I'll reserve judgement.
Anyway this is just fishing.
Return your junk and get something else to your liking.....it's that simple
JarkMackson said:
As is yours.
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I withdraw my remark, yours isn't an opinion, it's a rant, reminiscent of a 10 year old. I'm through here.
Tel864 said:
I withdraw my remark, yours isn't an opinion, it's a rant, reminiscent of a 10 year old. I'm through here.
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Click to collapse
Sweetheart don't get bent because I felt like expressing my opinion, the same way you just expressed yours in response.
Here we are again with a long thread of "mine is bigger than yours" but "mine works better than yours" even if "mine and yours give us pleasure in our respective personal lives" ...
googy_anas said:
Here we are again with a long thread of "mine is bigger than yours" but "mine works better than yours" even if "mine and yours give us pleasure in our respective personal lives" ...
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Click to collapse
Fair point.
I have my S10 since Friday, and for me it is a good phone. Okay, at first time I have also sometimes problems with the touch screen, but I think it's only a thing of time. The finger reader also, I loved the finger scanner on the s7, when I buy the s8 I had at first time the New position of the scanner, but now the handling after two years are great for me. I think the same is on the s10, give it some time and then the handling would easyer.
But I missing also some features from my other Samsung phones, like the led notification or the automatic unvisebelle navigation buttons, I hope Samsung bring some updates.
The best is when I can install root, then it is really my phone and the Good time is beginning. and when it's not your phone, then it is also okay.
*sorry for my english*
Each to their own
Mevlike many think it's the best phone on the market
Overrated and overpriced junk is what iPhones are
i just got my S10+ after an iphone X ,
first of all it is the best samsung i ever used till now coming from
S1 - S2 - S3 - Note 3 - iphone 6 plus - Note 5 - S7Edge - Mate 9 - Mate 10Pro - Iphone X
and the S10+ frankly is miles ahead of the Iphone X and i was not expecting that to be honest
the only point i can agree with the OP is that the screen edges make it hard to use it in one hand , but no problem for me as the screen is fantastic
Yeah, I'll admit the fingerprint sensor isn't as accurate as the capacitive sensors from before, but we've already seen an improvement with the latest firmware and I have confidence that it'll get even better. I think the biggest thing though is that it's ¥different "and it'll take a bit of getting used to how it works.
As for the cameras, it's not really a fair comparison to use the GCam camera app to compare. Yes, it uses Google's image processing, it doesn't take advantage of Samsung's specific features (variable aperture, for example). I'm also not sure if it supports all three cameras on the S10 - it's a mod after all, and may need to be updated.
That said, the beauty of Android is choice. What works for one person may not work for another. I absolutely despise LG's skin, and they're even worse than Samsung when it comes to updates.
Is there a such thing as a bad phone, any more? I don't think so... The new iPhones are great phones, even if they lack the bells and whistles of Android... As far as hardware goes, top notch. And so long as you are cool working within the box that Apple built, they are solid. It's only when you want to tinker and fiddle with them and do fun, but for the most part unnecessary things with them, that they fall short...
The S10+ seems solid so far. Yeah, there is some bloat... big deal... Disable it or uninstall it and call it a day... if you don't like Bixby, turn it off and remap the button. If you don't like the layout of OneUI, install a launcher. You can still do pretty much all the things you need or want, without root these days. Unless you are completely anal retentive and just have to change some inane thing to feel extra geeky and brag to your geeky friends how you have the coolest battery icon or DPI setting, it just doesn't matter. It's a PHONE. You make calls on it, check your email, catch a Netflix show and maybe play a game. It's not a way of life, it's an appliance, that you will likely get bored of and replace in the next 6-12 months anyway... Do you obsess the same way about your electric toothbrush or your microwave or other appliances? Probably not...
If you keep this all in perspective, pretty much any phone will do. I have used Samsung, HTC, OnePlus, Apple, Moto, LG, etc... In years past, there were some lemons... but today it is hard to find a BAD phone, at least in the flagship section... None of them are perfect, but they are all quite good.
I just laugh when I see people trying so hard to nit-pick some obscure inane thing, trying to pretend that it matters or that the average person gives a crap...
"You can't uninstall the GoT bloatware game, I need those 30mb of storage back!"...
No you don't. It's like 0.1% of your storage space, disable it and shut up. It's not hurting you. LOL
SquireSCA said:
Is there a such thing as a bad phone, any more? I don't think so... The new iPhones are great phones, even if they lack the bells and whistles of Android... As far as hardware goes, top notch. And so long as you are cool working within the box that Apple built, they are solid. It's only when you want to tinker and fiddle with them and do fun, but for the most part unnecessary things with them, that they fall short...
The S10+ seems solid so far. Yeah, there is some bloat... big deal... Disable it or uninstall it and call it a day... if you don't like Bixby, turn it off and remap the button. If you don't like the layout of OneUI, install a launcher. You can still do pretty much all the things you need or want, without root these days. Unless you are completely anal retentive and just have to change some inane thing to feel extra geeky and brag to your geeky friends how you have the coolest battery icon or DPI setting, it just doesn't matter. It's a PHONE. You make calls on it, check your email, catch a Netflix show and maybe play a game. It's not a way of life, it's an appliance, that you will likely get bored of and replace in the next 6-12 months anyway... Do you obsess the same way about your electric toothbrush or your microwave or other appliances? Probably not...
If you keep this all in perspective, pretty much any phone will do. I have used Samsung, HTC, OnePlus, Apple, Moto, LG, etc... In years past, there were some lemons... but today it is hard to find a BAD phone, at least in the flagship section... None of them are perfect, but they are all quite good.
I just laugh when I see people trying so hard to nit-pick some obscure inane thing, trying to pretend that it matters or that the average person gives a crap...
"You can't uninstall the GoT bloatware game, I need those 30mb of storage back!"...
No you don't. It's like 0.1% of your storage space, disable it and shut up. It's not hurting you. LOL
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Click to collapse
Well that was a thought out reply......
But agreed most phones (flagships) offer up more that we shall ever need....
Yeah, I mean these are temporary appliances, nothing more.
I guess just blanketing the phone as not being good is a bit harsh, I was excited for this phone only to be so disappointed within the first 10 minutes. I feel like Samsung really messed this one up and I've seriously loved their phones for almost a decade. Just the inability to type in Gboard without the edges messing everything up (not sure why it's so bad with this phone, it was never an issue for me before) makes this one a lemon in my eyes. I'm not going to pull the "I'm never buying Samsung again" but they just can't ever seem to take a step forward without taking one back. I feel like this isn't the phone that's worth the sticker price.
Related
Hey guys. Just wondering if anyone feels sort of the same way as me.
I spent around $650 USD and waited 3 months (from when the official international UK version was released) to purchase the S2 from overseas. Now the phone is going to become released in the U.S.
A part of me feels sort of disappointed and excited, yet I should be very happy now that it is available here (finally!!!). I guess I just wanted a phone where it wasn't too popular in the states. A part of spending a large amount of money (with no binding contract to a carrier) gave me a sense of uniqueness in that I was "one of few" to actually have this phone. Also, the forums here are quite valuable with so many users that I feel like I am part of a special S2 community...but with the announcement of this phone in the U.S., it seems like everyone "else" (yes, all the "other" people... you name it, they've got it) would eventually have it. I guess you can't help but wonder how special your phone is, heh.
I suppose I like to have electronic devices that is rare. Thus, when someone sees you off the street holding a S2, their impression would be like "Woah. That is cool. What is that?" But I guess in a few months, people would be more like "Is that the S2? Here's mine, too. And all my friends have it!"
Anyone feel the same way, heh?
Cool story bro.
Sent from my Kyocera Echo.
Not much in a way, people still keep thinking it's an iPhone which makes me giggle lol. You still have the uniqueness factor since the phone looks physically different from the variants.
I'm pretty much like that too, I usually had the odd phone that nobody even knew the name. I always tell my friends about how iPhone is like a DVD player, everyone has one and knows how to operate it and I was thinking in the same line about the SGS2 since you can buy it off the cell company. This wasn't like that last year, you couldn't even find any android phones, we have a huge blackberry market and quickly diving. But the SGS2 is an android phone, that means you can have any UI, on iPhone you have iOS and works the way apple wants it to work and that's it, with the SGS2 it'll be different, you have TouchWiz as a default interface, and you can also have ADW, LauncherPro etc, you can even have MIUI on it, then it comes the millions of roms that we have and will have more coming as soon as SGS2 starts selling in the US. Now think about the people that are square headed that don't even know what ROOT is and don't even care about it, if they try to use your phone and you don't have TouchWiz it will be like a windows fan using linux, he/she will know is the same phone but won't be able to use it as easy as theirs. And you have widgets and all the customization on the different launchers.
I know what you're going tru lol
So to sum up, you chose a phone because you wanted to stroke your own ego with your "sense of uniqueness" and impress your "friends", and are now disappointed because other people will spoil your unique user experience by having the temerity to get a similar device.
Poor little thing. Just wait until the next Shiny New Thing, buy it, bask in your own smugness and find another forum to tell people how special you are.
I spent 750 with first original stock and it was worth every penny. The only thing that got my attention is the Samsung Note.
This device will easily last 2 years for the casual person and another 6-12 months with the tech geek.
Last I read over 3 million GS2 had been sold in Europe alone so I can imagine at least a couple hundred thousand were sold in USA despite not being on general sale there that's not to say people didn't buy them online and not taking into account the many more sold throughout the rest of the world so hardly a unique phone for the privileged few this phone has been Samsung's biggest selling handset to date and with good reason!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Of course the phone will become more popular as it gets released in more places. That's progress. Accept it.
Samsung have a winning phone on their hands; they'd be utterly stupid to not try selling it in every country in the world.
If you want something new, go and buy the Samsung Galaxy S 3 whenever it's released. (but accept that other people are going to buy it too)
SII already achieved a great level of admiration as after 3 months of release it's still the most wanted and popular phone people wanna hold. I believe it will have a record sales figure worldwide.
But OP- Poor thinking, shame on you.
intruda119 said:
The only thing that got my attention is the 7.7.
This device will easily last 2 years for the casual person and another 6-12 months with the tech geek.
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10 characters
B3311 said:
So to sum up, you chose a phone because you wanted to stroke your own ego with your "sense of uniqueness" and impress your "friends", and are now disappointed because other people will spoil your unique user experience by having the temerity to get a similar device.
Poor little thing. Just wait until the next Shiny New Thing, buy it, bask in your own smugness and find another forum to tell people how special you are.
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Click to collapse
Took the words out of my mouth.
But hey, it's suckers like OP that I find easy to make money from.
I know how you feel. Its just a nice experience when you own a device that others have never even seen. I owned a Microsoft zune a few years back which wasn't released here in the uk. When I showed it to iPod user's they just said "wow is that a new iPod?" Although the galaxy s2 is wildly available in the UK there are still alot of people that don't know what they are, especially iPhone users. I've already been asked if it was an iphone5. I replied no its much better than one of those old iPhones. I'm then quickly followed by a confused look and a sharp reply of "iPhones are the best though aren't they?" So funny.
Logi_Ca1 said:
Took the words out of my mouth.
But hey, it's suckers like OP that I find easy to make money from.
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(uJelly?)
With all do respect, I absolutely love this phone. I just felt as with an increased presence in the States, it could potentially turn to something along the lines of an iPhone, whereby almost every user wants/or already has it. It's one of the things I dislike about Apple products is because of the all-too familiarity around here. Pretty much everywhere I go, I would see someone carrying an iPhone. Makes you feel slightly less exclusive. However, if it's a good product, then obviously everyone is going to get it.
B3311 said:
So to sum up, you chose a phone because you wanted to stroke your own ego with your "sense of uniqueness" and impress your "friends", and are now disappointed because other people will spoil your unique user experience by having the temerity to get a similar device.
Poor little thing. Just wait until the next Shiny New Thing, buy it, bask in your own smugness and find another forum to tell people how special you are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is nothing wrong with a bit if pride and the desire to be unique.
Alazarin said:
(uJelly?)
With all do respect, I absolutely love this phone. I just felt as with an increased presence in the States, it could potentially turn to something along the lines of an iPhone, whereby almost every user wants/or already has it. It's one of the things I dislike about Apple products is because of the all-too familiarity around here. Pretty much everywhere I go, I would see someone carrying an iPhone. Makes you feel slightly less exclusive. However, if it's a good product, then obviously everyone is going to get it.
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Click to collapse
Totally agree
Alazarin said:
(uJelly?)
With all do respect, I absolutely love this phone. I just felt as with an increased presence in the States, it could potentially turn to something along the lines of an iPhone, whereby almost every user wants/or already has it. It's one of the things I dislike about Apple products is because of the all-too familiarity around here. Pretty much everywhere I go, I would see someone carrying an iPhone. Makes you feel slightly less exclusive. However, if it's a good product, then obviously everyone is going to get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought that individualism was one of the central tenets of American culture.
I don't see how it's a bad thing if the SGSII (or any other Android phone for that matter) becomes more popular. A larger install base means the platform is more attractive for app developers, and it's the quality and quantity of these quality apps that make or break a platform. This is just my opinion, but I feel that in this area, Android still has to catch up with iOS. I can't help but feel that I had access to a greater variety of good apps when I was on my iPhone 3GS.
Sparksltd said:
There is nothing wrong with a bit if pride and the desire to be unique.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Being anti-conformist for the sake of being anti-conformist is a form of conformity in itself.
Alazarin said:
(uJelly?)
With all do respect, I absolutely love this phone. I just felt as with an increased presence in the States, it could potentially turn to something along the lines of an iPhone, whereby almost every user wants/or already has it. It's one of the things I dislike about Apple products is because of the all-too familiarity around here. Pretty much everywhere I go, I would see someone carrying an iPhone. Makes you feel slightly less exclusive. However, if it's a good product, then obviously everyone is going to get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is only one option left for you and it ain't a good one.
To be unique, buy a phone that doesn't sell well, meaning an ugly underpowered , crashing and medicore phone. Thats how you will be unique.
Thats the price you pay for wanting a top selling and great phone. In the end everybody wants a phone that is on top of the line.
Learn to live with it that you are not alone when you buy these phones.
When i see around me people with GS II then i know i probably made a good decision.
If i bought a phone that nobody has then its rubbish or insane expensive.
Logi_Ca1 said:
I thought that individualism was one of the central tenets of American culture.
I don't see how it's a bad thing if the SGSII (or any other Android phone for that matter) becomes more popular. A larger install base means the platform is more attractive for app developers, and it's the quality and quantity of these quality apps that make or break a platform. This is just my opinion, but I feel that in this area, Android still has to catch up with iOS. I can't help but feel that I had access to a greater variety of good apps when I was on my iPhone 3GS.
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Click to collapse
True. Good point.
Hopefully, Samsung continues to make great quality products. IMHO, I'll take quality over quantity (or massive production of inferior products in order to just reach a certain quota) any day of the week.
You could look at it a different way...
Think about this, for a start not everyone will get or be in the position to get an S2. Instead of 'oh that's cool what is it' you might get people saying hey an S2 they are great aren't they? I have one and just put the latest xxx rom on it, have you tried it, take a look A full on conversation going about how good the phone is, while others around wonder why they don't have one of these phones.
I already have (here in Belfast Northern Ireland) been talking to a complete stranger and quickly set his phone up a bit better for him on the spot! He thanked me and said he is very new to android. I showed him my setup and he was impressed so I pointed him in the direction of xda.
So if you like it might not be such a unique club soon, but it will still be a chosen few only with a few more friendly members, don't you think?
MJ-12
Is it just me or is the Galaxy S2 a victim of its own popularity in the fact that it has so many moaners? I'm completely satisfied with my White GS2, autobrightness is a bit poor but that's not a big deal to me. I've owned a few Android phones,
HTC Tattoo.
HTC Desire.
ZTE Blade.
Motorola Defy.
HTC HD2 (with Android obviously)
Sony X10i.
This phone has been my best experience with an Android phone so far. I used to be a fan of Sense but i feel Touchwiz is BETTER! I think the main problem is the happy users (The majority!) don't feel the need to speak up about it whereas many unhappy users want to make their voice heard. There are people actually saying they HATE this phone on these forums...if that is the case why are they hanging around? Sell the phone and leave the forums
I guess when a device sells as well as the GS2 you do end up with a lot of users who bought the phone simply because it's the most popular currently and they haven't done their research prior to buying or upgrading.
That, and the age-old problem that people very very rarely make the effort just to say "My [insert item here] is awesome, that is all." They more often use the effort to moan.
I bloody love my SGS2, best phone I've ever had. Makes everything else look like a poor cousin, even to the point that I don't feel the need to root at the moment - I had to root my Desire not long after I had it to love it this much!
I had the (mis?)fortune to get a play around with an IPhone 4S the other day, and the SGS2 feels so far ahead it's not even funny anymore.
I had to root my Desire for one simple reason. More space for apps. A2SD!
Is it just me or is the Galaxy S2 a victim of its own popularity in the fact that it has so many moaners?
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totally.
And far too many inexperienced user who dont know how to utilise the phone properly, refuse to read and educate themselves or look for the slightest error and go nuts with it
I think its also wanting to feel part of something (ie this forum/community)....so by posting threads it validates their time on this forum...pretty sad really
I think phones like this should come with a rating of some kind like movies do....
agreed with all the above, the phone is by far and away the best I've owned, had a x10i before which was good, arc and arc s didn't inspire me, Galaxy s2 blown me away to the point I don't really want to root/flash unless there is any real advantage to do it.....as asked in another post, looks like it's worth a flash to the latest stock rom which is what I'll do, at least I know I'll get the updates from sammy direct when released without having to wait for 02
Darkside i love that rating comment but what i love even more is your signature. That comment is pure gold.
kp it is definitely worth flashing an up to date stock rom without a doubt. Carrier updates are a joke for all devices.
ephumuris said:
Darkside i love that rating comment but what i love even more is your signature. That comment is pure gold.
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Hehe, its a good 'un aint it!!
as soon as i read it i had to have it in my sig...
Sorry for the OT....
The way I see it there are 3 groups of people
1 - Those who have a faulty handset myself being 1 of them with WiFi issues, poor battery, low volume to name but a few.
2 - Those who don't have a faulty handset
3 - The fanboys who even if it was faulty they would never admit it.
Well those in group 1 need to return and get a replacement or a different phone. Those in group 3 need to wake up.
And let me add,
4. Those who really aren't that bright or lead a very pessimistic life
Is this a "Brit" only forum?
Just kidding, You guys are on target. The phone stock is GREAT and if you have a bug or two, well rooting and a few choice apps can make your phone even more awsum. Just taking the time to say that my Epic touch is GREAT!!!!
---Live long and prosper---
The SGSII is my first smartphone and obviously my first android phone too. I'm loving it and I don't have any issue to moan about (so far).
Great sig Darkside
I love my SGSII, that is all.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
i remember reading threads 10 - 15 days after the sgs2 was released
these were the issues back then
1.battery life sucks HALP
2.yellow color on the left side omg
3.i see pink color when i take a picture
4.my phones is SOOOO HOT
now its
1.which rom is best
2.HALP i flashed this "i9000 darkyrom" now its not working
3.MY PHONE NO GO DEEP SLEEP :O
4.ETA ?
ephumuris said:
Well those in group 1 need to return and get a replacement or a different phone. Those in group 3 need to wake up.
And let me add,
4. Those who really aren't that bright or lead a very pessimistic life
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Click to collapse
Pessimism is AWESOME!!! A pessimist is never disappointed!
The only reason I was starting to hate this phone was because I had to turn it in two times before I got one without a faulty display. It took almost a month.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Agree - I love this phone and the android community, but there are quite a few whining idiots around.
That said, we're still wayyyyyyyyyy better off than the iPhone 4S crowd. Lots of morons complaining there, and worse, they can't even do anything about it. iOS doesn't allow half the tweaks and hacks Android lets us do, especially if not jailbroken
This is a video of the note reviewed by regular people on the street. Can't say I agree with them but here it is.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-17918_1-57...-note-the-wrong-type-of-bulge-in-your-pocket/
Sent from the SuperStreak! ;-)
The people they interviewed actually seemed pretty open to it - more so than I would have expected. I was expecting more wide-eyed BGR-type reactions, but at least the woman in the middle of the video seemed like she wanted to keep it.
I was slightly surprised to see that both of the guys thought it was too big for a phone, when both of the girls seemed all for it. I still don't get the first guy's opinion that carrying two devices is more practical than one that can fit both bills quite well. Also, the second guy doesn't realize the hypocrisy in his opinion. He says the stylus is just one more thing to carry, one more thing to use, and doesn't like the idea of it; even though it is stored inside the device and you don't need to use it....hmmm? Then he goes to say that he likes carrying two devices around more so than the possibility of having both in one pocket-able design. Doesn't add up in my mind. I don't think I will ever understand the full power of the iSheep.
I think the girls are smart and realize the true potential of this device. They realize that they shouldn't care if somebody thinks their phone is huge, that it is still pocket-able, and it can be a very useful all-in-one device.
First off: I am not anti-Google. I use all the main Google apps. I have had four Android phones, own 2 Nexus 7's and would take Android over iOS any day of the week.
But...
I am through with this piece of crap that passes for the Nexus 10.
Since buying this thing when it first came out I have had to put up with dodgy wifi connections, creaky flexing back panels, random freezes and reboots, and - worst of all - deal-breakingly poor quality control on the screens. I have been through several RMAs with Google Play (to the point where they are refusing to send me any more replacements - and at the moment they are not even replying to my emails) and am now on my 5th device. All of the devices have had unacceptable levels of light bleed, and - worse still - blotchy screens with uneven yellow or blue tints. I have been through nightmares with the Play store and TNT trying to get devices returned and shipped, and have a pile of email correspondence so long that it could be turned into a Peter Jackson trilogy. The Play store is staffed by some of the greatest morons that I have ever had the misfortune to have to deal with. I have constantly been given wrong or misleading information, and have had to harass and badger them at every stage to get anything done. I still have a device listed as 'pending' on my Google Wallet that has long since been returned, despite being told on numerous occasions that an 'expert' was going to remove it.
For anyone with a perfect device, or who is just happy with their's however it is: I am genuinely pleased for you. This could, and more importantly, should, have been an amazing piece of kit. But as it is, my time with the Nexus 10 has been, without any shadow of a doubt, the absolute worst customer experience I have had in my entire life, by a long country mile.
My blotchy, creaky, light bleedy slab of **** is going back. I'll be getting a full refund and returning to my long neglected iPad. Which actually works like it's supposed to.
YMMV
my two cents
When you got the second sample and were still unhappy then it was masochistic to keep trying. You should have given up and ended the pain way before getting to the fifth device. Clearly it is not designed to the quality you require and most, if not all, of the samples were probably typical of the quality of everyone else's.
Crap is in the eye of the beholder. Many others, including myself, are not sensitive to the defects you point out. I don't care about an occasional reboot (which only happened in the first day for me), the light bleed, case cracking sounds, etc. Different people have different needs.
You were asking the support people to make the product right for you, which is probably impossible given that particular design. How do you expect them to behave? They certainly aren't going to say the nexus 10 is **** and they also can't say that you are wrong. The nexus 10 is not **** for most people and you are not wrong for wanting a particular level of quality.
To make a long story short you should walk away and spend your energy finding something better instead of banging your head against a lost cause.
+1 for "my two cents"
Well it took me forever to get a good one... Returns and repairs but its pretty good now.
Funny you praise the nexus 7 while cursing this one. I got 8 crap n7s in a row. Finding one without bleed and lifted screen is like finding a unicorn. The ones not plagued by screen issues are pretty cool... The same can be said for the n10.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
boominski said:
First off: I am not anti-Google. I use all the main Google apps. I have had four Android phones, own 2 Nexus 7's and would take Android over iOS any day of the week.
But...
I am through with this piece of crap that passes for the Nexus 10.
Since buying this thing when it first came out I have had to put up with dodgy wifi connections, creaky flexing back panels, random freezes and reboots, and - worst of all - deal-breakingly poor quality control on the screens. I have been through several RMAs with Google Play (to the point where they are refusing to send me any more replacements - and at the moment they are not even replying to my emails) and am now on my 5th device. All of the devices have had unacceptable levels of light bleed, and - worse still - blotchy screens with uneven yellow or blue tints. I have been through nightmares with the Play store and TNT trying to get devices returned and shipped, and have a pile of email correspondence so long that it could be turned into a Peter Jackson trilogy. The Play store is staffed by some of the greatest morons that I have ever had the misfortune to have to deal with. I have constantly been given wrong or misleading information, and have had to harass and badger them at every stage to get anything done. I still have a device listed as 'pending' on my Google Wallet that has long since been returned, despite being told on numerous occasions that an 'expert' was going to remove it.
For anyone with a perfect device, or who is just happy with their's however it is: I am genuinely pleased for you. This could, and more importantly, should, have been an amazing piece of kit. But as it is, my time with the Nexus 10 has been, without any shadow of a doubt, the absolute worst customer experience I have had in my entire life, by a long country mile.
My blotchy, creaky, light bleedy slab of **** is going back. I'll be getting a full refund and returning to my long neglected iPad. Which actually works like it's supposed to.
YMMV
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool story
You know, I can see your point, but I can't see how it merits a new thread here.
What do we gain from reading it? What do you gain from us having read it? (I can totally understand what you gained by writing it, but why not pin in on a wall, be it real or virtual?).
Randomwalker said:
You know, I can see your point, but I can't see how it merits a new thread here.
What do we gain from reading it? What do you gain from us having read it? (I can totally understand what you gained by writing it, but why not pin in on a wall, be it real or virtual?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is possible @boominski is a troll. Just saying.
Randomwalker said:
You know, I can see your point, but I can't see how it merits a new thread here.
What do we gain from reading it? What do you gain from us having read it? (I can totally understand what you gained by writing it, but why not pin in on a wall, be it real or virtual?).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He is sharing his bad experience. Anyone looking to buy a Nexus 10 should be aware of both the good side, and bad sides.
espionage724 said:
He is sharing his bad experience. Anyone looking to buy a Nexus 10 should be aware of both the good side, and bad sides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a difference between useful sharing of a bad experience and trashing it. He seems to be saying that he was harmed and the world owes him something. No company owes anyone anything unless they misrepresent the product or are outright fraudulent.
I actually feel sorry for the support team on this one. Sending 5 units is beyond the call of duty. I would quit responding to his emails also. A friend of mine worked in support and he called these customers "screamers". There was nothing you could do to make them happy. He wanted to tell them to give up and buy a competitors product but he could have lost his job for saying that.
It is *possible* he is an apple fan coming here to troll. I'm not accusing him but I've seen this on other forums many times. The fact that he says he is going back to his iPad is a clue.
I feel so sorry to the customer service handle your case.
Such customer shall be doing such job to learn the lesson.
Requesting 5 times changing was ridiculous. If 2nd change not fulfil your requirements. Stop continue and by just requested for full refund as it was known the thing never right nor matter how many times you change it.
It was great for your continue using back your satisfied iPad.
Think twice in future before repeating such hilarious attitude.
Idk, on one hand, if he really wanted the device, 5 tries at it doesn't seem too bad. On the other hand, if decent QC was actually existent, then so many replacements wouldn't have to be issued to find an "acceptable" device (for $400 I wouldn't deal with excessive screen bleed nor a creaky back either; luckily I have neither on my first device though).
So, it's either deal with the QC flaws on a $400 device, or annoy CS because of lack of QC. Maybe annoying them will actually make Google/Samsung do some better QC
As for the Apple part, I do agree it is kind of unnecessary. But then again if that's the tablet that works for him, then meh.
mchahn said:
There is a difference between useful sharing of a bad experience and trashing it. He seems to be saying that he was harmed and the world owes him something. No company owes anyone anything unless they misrepresent the product or are outright fraudulent.
I actually feel sorry for the support team on this one. Sending 5 units is beyond the call of duty. I would quit responding to his emails also. A friend of mine worked in support and he called these customers "screamers". There was nothing you could do to make them happy. He wanted to tell them to give up and buy a competitors product but he could have lost his job for saying that.
It is *possible* he is an apple fan coming here to troll. I'm not accusing him but I've seen this on other forums many times. The fact that he says he is going back to his iPad is a clue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trolling at all. Actually reading this on my Nexus 7 rather than my iPad. Android is so far ahead of iOS it feels like a backward step to have to use it. Was going to sell the thing if the Nexus 10 turned out right. Such a shame since the N10 pisses all over the iPad in every respect. Apart from the defective screen, obviously. I can overlook the creaks (put it in a case) and the light bleed (don't watch films in the dark).I can even overlook the WiFi and reboot issues, but an uneven screen is a deal breaker. I use my tablets primarily for reading, so yellow patches are highly distracting. And as for the Play Store staff: I have come across some who have been extremely helpful, but I've also been repeatedly given wrong information, lied to and messed about. The customer service is genuinely appalling. As for just giving in: it took me three exchanges to get a decent iPad (uneven screen again), so am not inclined to throw in the towel. What would make me happy? A reasonably uniform screen. I'm not looking for perfection. I know these are mass produced consumer products. But equally I see no reason to spend £300 on something sub-standard. If Google don't want me returning things then they should get their quality control sorted out. And yes - writing this has been cathartic.
Good bye
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
espionage724 said:
He is sharing his bad experience. Anyone looking to buy a Nexus 10 should be aware of both the good side, and bad sides.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As someone who has worked in retail for 17 year in positions that involve selling the general public goods what you hear from over the top customers is usually about 40% truth and 60% exaggeration in the hopes it will escalate their problem and get it resolved quickly to `their' satisifaction. Typically what is considered `their satisfaction' is a set of goal posts that never stops moving.
The replacement collectors I pay no attention to.. There is one dude around here that his signature is how he's had 5 Nexus 10 replacements and 5 Nexus 4 replacements.. Seriously.. I can't take that seriously..
styckx said:
As someone who has worked in retail for 17 year in positions that involve selling the general public goods what you hear from over the top customers is usually about 40% truth and 60% exaggeration in the hopes it will escalate their problem and get it resolved quickly to `their' satisifaction. Typically what is considered `their satisfaction' is a set of goal posts that never stops moving.
The replacement collectors I pay no attention to.. There is one dude around here that his signature is how he's had 5 Nexus 10 replacements and 5 Nexus 4 replacements.. Seriously.. I can't take that seriously..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which part of my post do you think is an exaggeration? The part where I said that I wasn't looking for perfection, could live with light bleed, wifi drop-outs and reboots, but drew the line at wanting a 'reasonably' even screen in terms of temperature and light distribution was a clue as to what I consider my 'goalposts' to be. My iPad isn't perfect: the screen is not 100% uniform and it has minor light bleed. My Nexus 7 isn't perfect: it has some light bleed, wifi drop-outs and the screen flicker issue. My Android phone isn't perfect: the screen is not 100% even. But are they acceptable? Yes. Because. even though consumer devices are not perfect, they are of a 'reasonable' quality.
That = 'goalposts'.
Why is that too hard for some people to understand?
Nothing in this world is perfection.
From all you write, you are finding for perfection but just not admit only.
Why life so hard? You can't be happy and satisfied forever as you are too towards for perfection. They is no such thing in this world!
this thing is sooo slugish and freezes after 4.2.2 update
this thing is going to my sisters 7 year old. I already told him if he drops and breaks it he will be doing us all a favor. ever since the 4.2.2 update it became laggy in all areas.
i think the only good thing about this thing was the ppi.....i did a lot of ebook reading.
I ordered ( just got the confirmation from microsoft) a surface pro. sorry google, i tried so many times along with 4 rma's and i just cant do this any more. please open those brick motar stores you keep talking about. it will make it easier for us to return your products.
...joe
The customer service representatives tell you to return it until you get one you are satisfied with. Not the other way around. They are quick to offer another RMA. I stopped after the second one had horrible light bleed because I didn't want to play THEIR game any more. I got a refund and got the hell out of the crappy RMA merry go round. I'm waiting to hear if they have fixed the quality control issues but sadly it still sounds like a crap shoot.
voodooevil said:
this thing is going to my sisters 7 year old. I already told him if he drops and breaks it he will be doing us all a favor. ever since the 4.2.2 update it became laggy in all areas.
i think the only good thing about this thing was the ppi.....i did a lot of ebook reading.
I ordered ( just got the confirmation from microsoft) a surface pro. sorry google, i tried so many times along with 4 rma's and i just cant do this any more. please open those brick motar stores you keep talking about. it will make it easier for us to return your products.
...joe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? for me after 4.2.2 I find the tablet is more responsiveness and battery life is improved - not sluggish at all. I have not had a reboot so far while using the tabet but did experience a few wifi drops (reconnected after a few seconds). Still trying to figure out where wifi drops happen as I'm running a Asus RT-N66U (with Tomato firmware).
I am running stock and lost root after the OTA upgrade. Have you tried a factory reset?
I genuinely can't believe that people see the need to RMA their N10 (or any device) due to the smallest things that they've found by specifically looking for them. Yes my N10 has light bleed and yes it did have problems with rebooting (before 4.2.2) but it doesn't bother me.
I would never use an LCD screen on full brightness in a dark room so will never notice the small amounts of light bleed it has. The reboots are a software issue that can be fixed by an update and are so infrequent that they are almost insignificant anyway. And a 'creaky back' definitely doesn't warrant getting the thing replaced; it's plastic so is bound to creak when you purposely flex it which you're not supposed to do.
Is anyone else shocked by the sheer number of people that will happily request multiple replacements because of the stupidest things and then wonder why the price increases or the customer service seems rushed? They've somehow got pay for all the testing, repackaging, restocking and reselling of these apparently 'defective' devices.
Finally got fed up with this dog-turd of a phone, and ordered a Nokia Lumia 822 as a replacement.
I have been with Android since flashing Donut onto my HTC Vogue, and while it was fun at first, I'm at a point now I just want my phone to work, with no need to constantly flash ROMs to get things to work well. I'm also tired of the constant lags/freezes that seem to still plague Android phones, so I've decided to take the plunge and move to a WP8 phone.
Anyway, the reason I'm writing this post is to see if anyone here has any interest in my documenting my experiences making the switch. If you want me to post here, let me know. If not, well, let me know that too. :silly:
Mike
Yes. I jumped to an iphone 4s after the dx2. Yes.
aviwdoowks said:
Yes. I jumped to an iphone 4s after the dx2. Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Juice... I responded to the op. Why don't you do the same?
aviwdoowks said:
Juice... I responded to the op. Why don't you do the same?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know people are allowed to discuss things in threads, and not ONLY reply to the OP, right?
@OP: I don't think I could ever go from an Android phone to a Win8 phone. It's just not the same. Plus, I'm pretty sure I'd lose a lot of apps... Though, I am looking for a cheap ICS/JB replacement for my X2, anyone have a suggestion there? Looking at the Droid Bionic, but even that is fairly expensive...
You picked a bad time to switch. Android up until ICS has been pretty crappy. I came from webOS and when I was using that, I thought Android was clunky and a little ugly. This is when Gingerbread was the newest version. I made the switch because webOS was going nowhere and there was no way in hell I was switching to an iPhone. Since the Droid X2 was my first Android phone, I came into android with a not so perfect experience thanks to Motorola and their locked down ways. I used ICS and JB when they were released on the DX2 but we all know they werent perfect. I was lucky enough to be given a Galaxy Nexus and since then, my thoughts on Android have gotten a lot better. You dont know what you are missing until you use a phone thats able to fully run the latest version of Android. Lag is pretty much gone. Everything works as it should. And Android is just getting better with every update. You say you have been using Android since the old Android days. Thats why I say you picked a bad time to switch because those were the crappy android days.
As far as Windows Phone, I have nothing against it. It looks great. My girlfriend is actually making the switch from Android to WP8 this month too. Shes not as much of a customizer as I am when it comes to phones so I think she will be happy with it. Also, it will give me a chance to check it out for myself. Not that I will ever switch. I'm sticking with Android and looking forward to their next unveiling in the next couple months.
jsgraphicart said:
You picked a bad time to switch. Android up until ICS has been pretty crappy. I came from webOS and when I was using that, I thought Android was clunky and a little ugly. This is when Gingerbread was the newest version. I made the switch because webOS was going nowhere and there was no way in hell I was switching to an iPhone. Since the Droid X2 was my first Android phone, I came into android with a not so perfect experience thanks to Motorola and their locked down ways. I used ICS and JB when they were released on the DX2 but we all know they werent perfect. I was lucky enough to be given a Galaxy Nexus and since then, my thoughts on Android have gotten a lot better. You dont know what you are missing until you use a phone thats able to fully run the latest version of Android. Lag is pretty much gone. Everything works as it should. And Android is just getting better with every update. You say you have been using Android since the old Android days. Thats why I say you picked a bad time to switch because those were the crappy android days.
As far as Windows Phone, I have nothing against it. It looks great. My girlfriend is actually making the switch from Android to WP8 this month too. Shes not as much of a customizer as I am when it comes to phones so I think she will be happy with it. Also, it will give me a chance to check it out for myself. Not that I will ever switch. I'm sticking with Android and looking forward to their next unveiling in the next couple months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate what you are saying here, and I agree that then new phones are better in this regard than before. However the only phones that even remotely come close to the speed of the WP8 phones are the flagship phones, which are at least $200 on contract or $650 off. No thanks.
And hey, maybe I'll like the new phone, maybe not. The only way to know is to try, so I'm going to give it a try. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to switch, just thought my experience may provide value to others.
golfnz34me said:
I appreciate what you are saying here, and I agree that then new phones are better in this regard than before. However the only phones that even remotely come close to the speed of the WP8 phones are the flagship phones, which are at least $200 on contract or $650 off. No thanks.
And hey, maybe I'll like the new phone, maybe not. The only way to know is to try, so I'm going to give it a try. I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone to switch, just thought my experience may provide value to others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For sure. I'm sure everyone here appreciates you sharing your experience. I'll be curious to know what you think of WP8 when you finally get it.
OP, to be honest, i felt the same way after dealing with the x2. after all we had gone through, i was just fed up. i wanted a phone that would just... work. My opinion has changed completely since i switched. after the x2, i got a rezound. it too was plagued with similar issues, and dealing with the lack of support and bad battery i nearly bought an iphone.since i got a RAZR M, my opinion has nearly 180'd. with the snapdragon s4, all my issues with android had literally melted away. with jellybeans smooth butteryness, the improved battery life, and overall impressive features, i will never leave android. even on stock, i rarely ever have horrendous battery or any stuttering whatsoever. had i been in your shoes, i definately would have held out for the SGS4, with the snapdragon 600, battery and smoothness with only go up. now, everyone has their opinions, but it seems your opinion was a little to vague and blunt in judging android as a whole. <-- thats my opinion, if anyone is interested.
My 822 got here last night, I haven't had a chance to do too much to it yet, but I'll give you my first impressions:
1. Build - Polycarbonate body is fine except for the back cover, which feels like it is going to break when you pull it off. One thing you have to give Motorola is that their phones are built like tanks, with aluminum bodies.
2. Screen - Screen is an AMOLED screen. Decided I'm not a fan. Has very nice contrast, but the oranges/browns/red look butt-awful. The 840x480 screen is a actually a benefit for me, at least, because it causes the fonts to be rendered larger than they would be on the X2, and are easier on my eyes. Plus less pixels to push means better speed from the phone.
3. Speed - Whoo boy, does this thing FLY!
That's all I will report on for now, I need some time to customize/configure the device before I come to any conclusions regarding the usability of the OS and/or app issues.
For anyone interested in differences in a few apps comparing Android, iOS and WP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bmERIowNKM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
Ok, so Ive had the new phone for a little over a week now, which I beilieve takes me past the "honeymoon" period, and here are my thoughts:
The metro interface is really starting to grow on me. When I first saw the live tiles I thought "Uggh!! that's just nasty". But they look much nicer on the phone than they do on a picture on the internet. Probably due to the high contrast AMOLED display.
I still dislike the nasty oranges/browns on the device, but I've mostly stopped noticing it now.
The device feels smaller than the X2, even though it has ostensibly the same size screen as the X2. In fact, I would probably prefer a slightly larger size to get a larger screen area.
The device is slick, and has fallen out of my hand a couple of times. Almost fell into the crapper once! Definitely getting a case for this.
The screen resolution differences are a non-issue IMHO.
The camera quality is about the same as the X2, maybe a little better. MUCH faster to start, though, no longer missing the moment waiting for the camera to start.
Speaking of the camera, holy hell is Cinemagraph a cool feature. It takes a picture along with 5 seconds of video, allowing you to create a moving snapshot effect, similar to the NFL player intros on TV or the moving pictures from the Harry Potter movies.
There has been some extra work getting things setup, as I still want to retain my google accounts, but once done it is seemless enough.
In terms of speed and usability this phone blows away any Android device I've ever used, (including my Nexus 7). There is simply no comparison in this department.
Nokia Maps and Drive are not quite as nice as the Google maps and Navigator, but still very good. Not really missing anything here.
As far as apps that I miss, there really isn't much. iHeartradio is probably the big one, and they have a WP7 app so a WP8 on is expected to be coming shortly. Nokia Music fills in for iHeartRadio for now. There are a few other apps missing, but IE10 does such a nice job with mobile websites that it's just not a big deal.
I am fast becoming a fan of Nokia. Their custom apps are fantastic, and they have shown a real commitment to improving WP8 along. Whereas with Motorola phones you get an outdated, buggy OS, bloatware, and few updates, Nokia apps are superb and they are continually adding cool new features to their phones. Motorola still probably has the edge in build quality, especially with the aluminum bodies. I want my phones to last a few years, so build quality does matter to me.
There are a few things that I would like to see added, like separate volume controls, the ability to pin individual settings to the start menu, and a webkit browser, but these are relatively minor issues.
The apps are definitely fewer than what is available on Android. But the quality of the apps is significantly better as well. They are almost universally more polished and beautiful than their Android counterparts.
Overall I am loving this phone. Especially since I got it in new condition for under $200 bucks.
As I was reading Engadget yesterday I saw a couple of articles, one on the Broid Bionic finally getting upgraded to Jelly Bean, and the other one on how the HTC One bootloader is going to be locked for AT&T, I realized just how much crap one has to deal with on an Android phone. I will NOT miss any of this.
For those who contributed to the development on the X2, my sincerest thanks. You helped make a crap phone more bearable.
I may peruse the X2 forums from time to time for nostalgia's sake, but otherwise I think I won't be coming here much more. Best of luck to all of you, and hopefully DZK can get you a nice bug-free Jelly Bean build some day.
Mike
golfnz34me
Thank you for the review. I chose the dx2 for the lack of a call termination beep. As in other Moto's at the time. And these beeps are always passed to a Bluetooth headset. My iphone 4s does the same damn thing.
What about the Nokia?
I just tried this, when the caller hangs up you get a triple beep. I don't know about over bluetooth, though.
I actually like this feature.
I use the Plantronics Voyager Pro HD and it is very loud because the dynamic range not compressed and this tone is much louder than the voices.
I also notice that the tone is much louder ( iphone ) when it is a Vzw phone terminating on the other end- strange.
golfnz34me said:
I just tried this, when the caller hangs up you get a triple beep. I don't know about over bluetooth, though.
I actually like this feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you still with this 822?
I tried it out. I really liked it at first but but WP8 is not ready for "prime time" Now this is truly "dog turd" OS . You cannot even cut & paste between apps!! Need I say more.
aviwdoowks said:
Are you still with this 822?
I tried it out. I really liked it at first but but WP8 is not ready for "prime time" Now this is truly "dog turd" OS . You cannot even cut & paste between apps!! Need I say more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/how-to/wp7/basics/copy-and-paste
jsgraphicart said:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-us/how-to/wp7/basics/copy-and-paste
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Click to collapse
Are you saying that it has been fixed? What about pasting to the dialer?
No matter I went to the Razr m.
Do you have a wp8?
aviwdoowks said:
Are you saying that it has been fixed? What about pasting to the dialer?
No matter I went to the Razr m.
Do you have a wp8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, I dont know. I just searched it. But apparently its there. I couldnt imagine a phone that cant do that these days. I dont have a WP8 phone but my girlfriend does.