Related
Hope I'm not being sacrilegeous, but is it possible? I've always admired the platform, but the lack of apps always held me back from trying it.
Any possibility we could get WebOS running on the G tab?
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
Because if number of available apps is the problem, WebOS is clearly the answer.
Thanks for the laugh.
spamhead said:
Because if number of available apps is the problem, WebOS is clearly the answer.
Thanks for the laugh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the lack of apps is whats kept him from trying Web OS (ie: buying a web os device) however hes interested in trying out the platform if he could get it running on his gtab.
but you clearly didn't pick that up and made an ass of yourself.
You're right (on both counts).
Not the first or last time I make an ass of myself on the internet.
I doubt it, but it would be awesome. WebOS is a stunningly beautiful OS. I love the way it looks, feels, and works. To me, it's up there with android in the multitasking department and surpasses it in design (though honeycomb is getting close). I had a pre for about 6 months and sometimes miss some of the things it did. That being said, as of june 2010, it was buggy as all get out and the app store was severly lacking.
I second the request for someone to look into this though, as it would be a lot of fun to play with.
spamhead said:
You're right (on both counts).
Not the first or last time I make an ass of myself on the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, at least you owned up to it
I bought a Palm Pre the day it was released, I thought WebOS was pretty damn awesome, but they released it on hardware of the worst quality (my Pre oreo'd like a mofo, and the touchscreen stopped working 9 months in). That and the fact that they didn't license it out like Android pretty much doomed it from the start.
Nice to see HP giving it a go, and #2 tablet world is wide open at the moment, but I wouldn't choose it over Android. Would be fun to play with though.
CPU is probably the big obstacle - anyone know what WebOS is compiled for? I actually know very little about the device.
If, for example, the hardware was ARM based then it's in the realm of possibility.
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webos. hmmm, ARM-based and Linux based. Interesting.....
roebeet said:
CPU is probably the big obstacle - anyone know what WebOS is compiled for? I actually know very little about the device.
If, for example, the hardware was ARM based then it's in the realm of possibility.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
original pre was an omap processor, not sure if that is arm or not. I think texas instruments was the manufacturer
Btw I thought of this after reading about all the work done on the HTC HD2 and and HD7 running both Windows x.x and Android concurrently. Android Central recently had an article about WebOS 3.0 where they said it is starting to look mighty impressive.
I've always enjoyed Android and how customizable it is, but have enjoyed the UI from WebOS (one of my cousin owned a Pre).
Btw I enjoy using all platforms, I've been on Windows, OS X, and Ubunut for desktops and laptops, and for Smartphones I've used WM 6 (and prior), Blackberry, iOS, and Android. I tend to go with the one that suits my needs/wants best. Now that tablets are starting to be on the rise, I haven't set in stone which one I prefer yet. I picked up a Gtab from Woot knowing that there is a strong community of modders in addition to some solid internal hardware and specs.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
I know nothing about the programming side, but if we could get the ball rolling on this, I'm ready and willing to use my time and hardware for testing.
Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
Web os is now open source.
Anyone interested
Ubunut!
jraskal said:
..., and Ubunut ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL! Is this the name for an Ubuntu fanatic?
I can't help but notice the lack of user community support for the Sony Tablet. Is it too early to tell, or am i one of the few too purchase?
Vancelot said:
I can't help but notice the lack of user community support for the Sony Tablet. Is it too early to tell, or am i one of the few too purchase?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Id say too early to tell either way But yeah the device hasnt been out long, Im sure some people will start poking their away around it sooner then later.
Vancelot said:
I can't help but notice the lack of user community support for the Sony Tablet. Is it too early to tell, or am i one of the few too purchase?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean here on xda, or in general? Now that it has been out for more than a week I am seeing more activity. On Friday all the blogs figured out the 3.2 update was out, though I installed it last Saturday. I wonder if a lot of people were hoping to see a fire sale like with the HP.
I think its too early. Sony S is released only in some regions as of now, m waiting for its release in Singapore!!!
Too early to tell. I have one, and it came before the official release date. Put my review up and the number of hits has grown every day since. The other reviews out there are generally positive, so I imagine it'll just take users time to find the forums.
Its just too early to tell. Its only been out in the states since what the 16th or 17th of September. It will pick up, mainly just for the Playstation Certified, thats the main reason I picked it up.
Bought one myself, hoping the community picks up as you said. If only the Playstation Certified meant something, it might increase sales.
I just ordered one and will be joining the gang soon...
Its too pricey IMHO...any tablet that is not ipad needs to be in the $350-400 range if not lower to gain acceptance from the masses.
I got one at Fry's on Sunday, just set it up tonight, and really liking it so far... Thought it was kinda "meh" at first, but after an hour of playing around, I like it better than my Galaxy Tab 10.1. Feels faster & more responsive than any other Honeycomb tab I've tried before.
My favorite feature by far is the built in IR blaster. No one has that (yet)!
Just posted in the apps section that the Video Unlimited app now seems to do something, it will hopefully be a pretty cool addition when it is full of movies and not just 5 lame 99p rentals.
officeman said:
My favorite feature by far is the built in IR blaster. No one has that (yet)!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Vizio 8" tablet also comes with an IR blaster and remote control app. Some companies have realized most people don't leave the house with tablets, and the most common place they are used is while on the sofa or lazy-boy while also watching TV. I just wish the remote control apps were macro-capable. So far none are.
the viso has, almost got it but luckily I found the STS
I have an Sony Tablet S (16gb version) brought it in November 2011, loved it since then, only wish there was more games that was compatible with this tablet, and im still waiting for oovoo to do another update so it can support this tablet!!
Hey xda im writing a shortish informative essay for my language arts class. I was womdering if you guys would proofread it over and tell me im a dumbass if i got some of the facts wrong. I hope you guys will enjoy! Its a pleasure to be a part of this awesome community.
Thanks a bunch
-Silente
Nook Tablet Devs and Kindle Fire Devs working together!
In the fall of 2011, two average-priced E-reader/Tablet crossover devices were launched. The Kindle Fire was made by Amazon in order to enter the tablet realm with the name of their successful e-reader line stamped on its back. The other, the Nook Tablet was Barnes and Nobles second venture into the tablet realm, with their Nook Color that was released in 2010 being the first. These two device's releasing marked a new price range for tablets, with most tablets costing anywhere from $300-$500. The Kindle Fire sold for a low $200 which was a great entry level price for people who had been wanting a tablet but had not been wanting to shell out the bug bucks for it. Whereas the Nook Tablet was $50 more at $250 but boasted a better screen, twice the storage space and an expansion slot where you could put in up to 32GB more. The two were locked in mortal combat and as time went on it became apparent that the Kindle Fire was the consumer favorite, mainly because of its farther developed app store and built-in Amazon media services. The Nook's problem was that Barnes and Noble hand-picked all of the apps for its app store and thus didn't have as wide of a selection. The Kindle Fire went on to actually become a direct competitor to Apple's famed iPad while the Nook continued to simply be an e-reader tablet, and didnt make as big a splash in the world of technology.
Now as tablets go, both were quite a good deal for what you paid for them and thus were prime targets for developers. A good value at some of the lowest prices in the tablet market, whats not tol ike? And so in the first few months after their release, both the tablets started to have strong and vibrant development communities, people who were committed to breaking through the restrictions set up on both of the tablet's by their manufacturers. As time went on the Kindle Fire proved to be the easier development platform because of Barnes and Noble's restrictive bootloader. A piece of software built into the Nook Tablet that wouldn't allow it to run any software except Barnes and Nobles. Eventually though the Nook Tablet's boot loader was cracked and the devs surged through the cracks they had made, working through rooting the Nook and eventually even running a custom made version of a popular android mod CyanogenMod7. Meanwhile though, the Kindle Fire devs had not been idle, they had rooted and modded the Kindle Fire even so far as to get the latest versionofAndroid (Ice Cream Sandwich) somewhat running on the Fire. At this point though, both development communities had hit a brick wall so to speak. To go any further in running Ice Cream Sandwich on either device, they would need to re-build a 3.x kernel from scratch. Both devices came running a 2.x kernel and up until then both of the dev communities had used that to base their mods off of. It was a huge task but both dev communities tackled it valiantly and began to make progress. But then an event came around that would change the course of the 3.x kernel development infinitely for the better!
On March 1st 2012, Hashcode; one of the leading developers from the Kindle Fire development group contacted Team A from the Nook Tablet development, pointing out the similarities in the two devices they coded for and proposed that they begin to help each other by letting the other's team use bits of code in order to better both of their 3.x kernel development projects. Merely 18 minutes later, Fattire; the leading developer for Ice Cream Sandwich on the Nook Tablet side of things, replied back that it would be great if the co-operation started up because they could simply cherry-pick the parts of code that they needed from each other's projects. it would be "Good Times" as Fattire put it. Now as both the teams work doggedly to get the 3.x kernel built, both the groups know that the work load has been lightened a bit and that the two dev communities may become more of friends instead of enemies each defending their turf, or in this case respective tablets. Its all uphill from here,but hopefully the two communities can help each other climb that hill a little faster on both sides.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
And to make it even more amazing is a number of the devs making breakthru's didn't even have the product in hand.
~ G
SilentStormer said:
Hey xda im writing a shortish informative essay for my language arts class. I was womdering if you guys would proofread it over and tell me im a dumbass if i got some of the facts wrong. I hope you guys will enjoy! Its a pleasure to be a part of this awesome community.
Thanks a bunch
-Silente
Nook Tablet Devs and Kindle Fire Devs working together!
In the fall of 2011, two average-priced E-reader/Tablet crossover devices were launched. The Kindle Fire was made by Amazon in order to enter the tablet realm with the name of their successful e-reader line stamped on its back. The other, the Nook Tablet was Barnes and Nobles second venture into the tablet realm, with their Nook Color that was released in 2010 being the first. These two device's releasing marked a new price range for tablets, with most tablets costing anywhere from $300-$500. The Kindle Fire sold for a low $200 which was a great entry level price for people who had been wanting a tablet but had not been wanting to shell out the bug bucks for it. Whereas the Nook Tablet was $50 more at $250 but boasted a better screen, twice the storage space and an expansion slot where you could put in up to 32GB more. The two were locked in mortal combat and as time went on it became apparent that the Kindle Fire was the consumer favorite, mainly because of its farther developed app store and built-in Amazon media services. The Nook's problem was that Barnes and Noble hand-picked all of the apps for its app store and thus didn't have as wide of a selection. The Kindle Fire went on to actually become a direct competitor to Apple's famed iPad while the Nook continued to simply be an e-reader tablet, and didnt make as big a splash in the world of technology.
Now as tablets go, both were quite a good deal for what you paid for them and thus were prime targets for developers. A good value at some of the lowest prices in the tablet market, whats not to like? And so in the first few months after their release, both the tablets started to have strong and vibrant development communities, people who were committed to breaking through the restrictions set up on both of the tablet's by their manufacturers. As time went on the Kindle Fire proved to be the easier development platform because of Barnes and Noble's restrictive bootloader. A piece of software built into the Nook Tablet that wouldn't allow it to run any software except Barnes and Noble's. Eventually though the Nook Tablet's boot loader was cracked and the devs surged through the cracks they had made, working through rooting the Nook and eventually even running a custom made version of a popular android mod CyanogenMod7. Meanwhile though, the Kindle Fire devs had not been idle, they had rooted and modded the Kindle Fire even so far as to get the latest versionofAndroid (Ice Cream Sandwich) somewhat running on the Fire. At this point though, both development communities had hit a brick wall so to speak. To go any further in running Ice Cream Sandwich on either device, they would need to re-build a 3.x kernel from scratch. Both devices came running a 2.x kernel and up until then both of the dev communities had used that to base their mods off of. It was a huge task but both dev communities tackled it valiantly and began to make progress. But then an event came around that would change the course of the 3.x kernel development infinitely for the better!
On March 1st 2012, Hashcode; one of the leading developers from the Kindle Fire development group contacted Team A from the Nook Tablet development, pointing out the similarities in the two devices they coded for and proposed that they begin to help each other by letting the other's team use bits of code in order to better both of their 3.x kernel development projects. Merely 18 minutes later, Fattire; the leading developer for Ice Cream Sandwich on the Nook Tablet side of things, replied back that it would be great if the co-operation started up because they could simply cherry-pick the parts of code that they needed from each other's projects. it would be "Good Times" as Fattire put it. Now as both the teams work doggedly to get the 3.x kernel built, both the groups know that the work load has been lightened a bit and that the two dev communities may become more of friends instead of enemies each defending their turf, or in this case respective tablets. Its all uphill from here,but hopefully the two communities can help each other climb that hill a little faster on both sides.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two proof issues (Red text in quote)
It's nitpicking, but, I wouldn't use abbreviated words (such as "devs" and "mods") without explaining what they are abbreviations for. It might confuse an audience unfamiliar with the parlance of the community. Especially not in the title.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Birdsbeaks said:
It's nitpicking, but, I wouldn't use abbreviated words (such as "devs" and "mods") without explaining what they are abbreviations for. It might confuse an audience unfamiliar with the parlance of the community. Especially not in the title.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks youre probably right
Thanks for all the suggestions guys!
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
change bug bucks to big bucks
Nook Tablet Devs and Kindle Fire Devs working together!
In the fall of 2011, two average-priced E-reader/Tablet crossover devices were launched. The Kindle Fire was made by Amazon in order to enter the tablet realm with the name of their successful e-reader line stamped on its back. The other, the Nook Tablet was Barnes and Nobles second venture into the tablet realm, with their Nook Color that was released in 2010 being the first. These two device's (devices') releasing (release) marked a new price range for tablets, with most tablets costing anywhere from $300-$500. The Kindle Fire sold for a low $200 which was a great entry level price for people who had been wanting a tablet but had not been wanting (had wanted a tablet but were unwilling) to shell out the bug bucks (big bucks) for it. Whereas the Nook Tablet was $50 more at $250 but boasted a better screen, twice the storage space and an expansion slot where you could put in up to 32GB more (get an additional 32GB's worth via microSD cards) . The two were locked in mortal combat and as time went on it became apparent that the Kindle Fire was the consumer favorite, mainly because of its farther developed app store and built-in Amazon media services. The Nook's problem was that Barnes and Noble hand-picked all of the apps for its app store and thus didn't have as wide of [delete] a selection. The Kindle Fire went on to actually become a direct competitor to Apple's famed iPad while the Nook continued to simply be an e-reader tablet, and didnt make as big a splash in the world of technology.
My suggestions for the first paragraph. I leave the rest to others.
That was a good read.Hope you do well with it.
The complicated, detailed history...
SilentStormer said:
On March 1st 2012, Hashcode; one of the leading developers from the Kindle Fire development group contacted Team A from the Nook Tablet development, pointing out the similarities in the two devices they coded for and proposed that they begin to help each other by letting the other's team use bits of code in order to better both of their 3.x kernel development projects. Merely 18 minutes later, Fattire; the leading developer for Ice Cream Sandwich on the Nook Tablet side of things, replied back that it would be great if the co-operation started up because they could simply cherry-pick the parts of code that they needed from each other's projects. it would be "Good Times" as Fattire put it. Now as both the teams work doggedly to get the 3.x kernel built, both the groups know that the work load has been lightened a bit and that the two dev communities may become more of friends instead of enemies each defending their turf, or in this case respective tablets. Its all uphill from here,but hopefully the two communities can help each other climb that hill a little faster on both sides.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey Silente!
Here's even more of the "inside story" if you want it-- the cooperation between KFire and NT goes back even further than what you report. In fact, I was contacted in PM a few months back by KFire developer "JackpotClavin" who had some questions regarding, if I remember right, some issues that came up w/the Nook Color that he thought might apply themselves to CM7 (and later ICS) for the Fire. So he and I had been exchanging messages back and forth for some time on various topics, since the devices are so similar. Then weeks after that, right after I had upgraded the "pvr"driver for NT to 2.6.35, I wanted to update some of the other advanced stuff (ion, tiler,etc.) and noticed that Hashcode (who I think I had spoken to once before) had already committed a lot of this work, or at least an attempt was made, for fire. So I adopted his work as a basis for porting it for NT, and after a few more days of struggling, I contacted him with questions, and we started talking in more detail. He was a HUGE help for me to understand what tiler and ion and all that even were plus issues he had encountered, etc. Ultimately that tiler/ion stuff didn't work out for 2.6.35 though.
Then a few weeks LATER, Kuzma30 (with chrmhoffmann and others) were making some serious progress with 3.0x, but we didn't have any history and the wrong pvr and I wasn't sure if it was using the right kernel to start with. So I switched to the Google version of the 3.0 kernel and used the Nexus Galaxy branch as a base for kuzma30's 3.0 work so that we would have a "known" place to start (and compatibility with video files used by the Nexus Galaxy) as well as all the history from TI and google. So I took kuzma30's stuff and add it THAT to the "end" of the source code. Doing this seemed to run well, and we had graphics, and soon touchscreen, and this became the basis for further work. And that's when what is in your essay began-- Hashcode decided to use the successes we had had with 3.0 as a basis for doing the same on the KFire, since they are so similar. that's when he branched the source for KFire and introduced himself to everyone on the forums...
Anyway, this is probably way too much info and probably too technical and even boring, but I just wanted to point out that the spirit of cooperation has been going on for a while-- there is no "turf" between devices, at least as far as I'm aware. The more the merrier! Your essay looks great btw- it's an honor to be mentioned, so thanks, and good luck with it!
ft
fattire said:
Hey Silente!
Here's even more of the "inside story" if you want it-- the cooperation between KFire and NT goes back even further than what you report. In fact, I was contacted in PM a few months back by KFire developer "JackpotClavin" who had some questions regarding, if I remember right, some issues that came up w/the Nook Color that he thought might apply themselves to CM7 (and later ICS) for the Fire. So he and I had been exchanging messages back and forth for some time on various topics, since the devices are so similar. Then weeks after that, right after I had upgraded the "pvr"driver for NT to 2.6.35, I wanted to update some of the other advanced stuff (ion, tiler,etc.) and noticed that Hashcode (who I think I had spoken to once before) had already committed a lot of this work, or at least an attempt was made, for fire. So I adopted his work as a basis for porting it for NT, and after a few more days of struggling, I contacted him with questions, and we started talking in more detail. He was a HUGE help for me to understand what tiler and ion and all that even were plus issues he had encountered, etc. Ultimately that tiler/ion stuff didn't work out for 2.6.35 though.
Then a few weeks LATER, Kuzma30 (with chrmhoffmann and others) were making some serious progress with 3.0x, but we didn't have any history and the wrong pvr and I wasn't sure if it was using the right kernel to start with. So I switched to the Google version of the 3.0 kernel and used the Nexus Galaxy branch as a base for kuzma30's 3.0 work so that we would have a "known" place to start (and compatibility with video files used by the Nexus Galaxy) as well as all the history from TI and google. So I took kuzma30's stuff and add it THAT to the "end" of the source code. Doing this seemed to run well, and we had graphics, and soon touchscreen, and this became the basis for further work. And that's when what is in your essay began-- Hashcode decided to use the successes we had had with 3.0 as a basis for doing the same on the KFire, since they are so similar. that's when he branched the source for KFire and introduced himself to everyone on the forums...
Anyway, this is probably way too much info and probably too technical and even boring, but I just wanted to point out that the spirit of cooperation has been going on for a while-- there is no "turf" between devices, at least as far as I'm aware. The more the merrier! Your essay looks great btw- it's an honor to be mentioned, so thanks, and good luck with it!
ft
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for reading it, ive just turned it in today but i didnt see your post until now
Its cool to see that theres so much collaboration going on between these two similar dev communities. And as for the "turf" thing i guess at my school and around the general surface of the internet ocean theres a lot of competition between things. Phones, clothes, computers, tablets etc etc and i guess since im somewht new to fhe dev community i still have that "competition" mindset. Thats just something i guess i realized just now
Thanks again
Noone at my school will understand half of this essay
-Silente
Sent from my Nook Tablet using xda premium
Hey everyone. I'm a long time android phone user and brand new to the tablet world. I just picked up my first one, a 16GB TouchPad for a decent price. I didn't want to dive into a 5 or 6 hundred dollar tablet right away because, honestly, I'm not sure how much I'll use it. I just wanted one! It appears that there is a pretty stout dev community here and I wanted something I could tinker with. I plan on immediately flashing an android ROM. I know there are bigger and better tablets, but for the price, I couldn't pass it up. Did I make a good/bad decision?
Welcome! Don't worry, you made a great choice. I'm personally running the CherryKang build right now (based on CM9/ICS) and it's great. I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the CM9 builds though. I did really like WebOS, but unfortunately the apps are really limiting.
MrWilliams2 said:
Hey everyone. I'm a long time android phone user and brand new to the tablet world. I just picked up my first one, a 16GB TouchPad for a decent price. I didn't want to dive into a 5 or 6 hundred dollar tablet right away because, honestly, I'm not sure how much I'll use it. I just wanted one! It appears that there is a pretty stout dev community here and I wanted something I could tinker with. I plan on immediately flashing an android ROM. I know there are bigger and better tablets, but for the price, I couldn't pass it up. Did I make a good/bad decision?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is it not a great choice?
After installing android you will have TWO operating systems to log into. So you pretty much have anything available for you to use.
Android 4.0 (ICS) runs amazing on this tablet and yet is still in its early stages of development. Much support on this site from various roms. My favorite is Classic Nerd ICS(classicnerd.net). Their forum offers the best and most support in dealing with questions and answers. Their ICS rom is so smooth but the youngest of the ICS builds available since they are building a non CyanogenMod rom.
I am currently using cm9 alpha 2 due to all video features working like Netflix. But I will likely go back to CN when they get everything working.
You cannot go wrong with either. Please visit reverndkjr's YouTube channel for all installation info...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGY4gpsDPD8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Good choice. I love my TP. Just running the stock CM 9 alpha 2 which does most everything I need.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
If you want to tinker with something, HP TOuchpad is the right choice - there are not many devices that can run multiple OSes (WebOS, ICS, Ubuntu), and with such a capable dev community.
Welcome to the community, this device is getting a TON of developer support and for the price they run vs some of the alternatives, it's a great starting tablet. What I thought would merely be a larger phone has become a true tablet in that it's not exactly a phone and not as bulky as my notebook. For most, it probably sits idle on coffee tables or nightstands but for me, it goes in my backpack with everything else and ALWAYS on person. Depending on the phone you have and whether you have a hotspot (broken or legit), having wifi access to this thing makes it so much more useful. Happy Rooting and flashing.
Been a while but I'm back. Howdy folks
Yes, yes, I know, iOS works just fine on the iPad, why change it?
Why buy an apple device only to run android on it?
In short, it doesn't and I didn't.
In long form, iPad 1 runs no higher than iOS 5.1.1, meaning that I can literally download maybe 1 in 10 apps that I want. Most support only iOS 8.1 and up etc. Even jail broken, the only jail I've broken out of is my cell, but I'm still locked on my cell block.
The iPad's in question I purchased 7 years ago as gifts. One for my daughter, the other my brother in law. Both gave them back recently since there's little apps available for them and have upgraded to other android tablets. Being 7 years old however should NOT render a device useless, when physically it still works great. I have a 9 year old laptop running windows 7 which still works fine. Sure it can't run new games and software designed for newer, high end machines but its still very very usable. Like wise I have an old Galaxy tab 2 7.0, which Samsung never updated past 4.0.4 (still usable) but I run 4.4 kitkat on it thanks to none other than you lot at XDA.
Being able to run android on these old iPads would make them usable again. I know there has been some interest in this, iopenboot etc etc. I have not seen any XDA development on this, and given this is by far the hub of android development, I would love to find folks here interested in this project. I'm going to start digging around, see what this will entail. If anyone is interested in this project, let me know.
Much love.
Did you have any success with installing android on the Ipad 1 ?
The reason to try androd in such an old tab is just to support youtube...