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Okay so hope this is the right spot to post this....
My phone about two hours ago was on working fine. At about 30% bat...
I took a nap and now when i plug it in to the charger it will not turn on at all.. only thing that happens is the LED blinks that orangy color over and over...
If i remove the battery and put it back in.. still nothing at all ever comes on the screen.
After removing the battery and while plugged into the charger if i hold the power button it will vibrate once and thats it...
not sure whats happening.
I was on gingeritis 1.0 and everything was great up to this point.
any ideas??
Let is attempt to charge for a while, maybe 2 hours. Then see if you can power up into the bootloader. See if that works.
I had that happen once as well. I just let it sit on the charger for about 15-20 minutes, and it booted up with no problems after that. In my case, it looked like the battery was just completely dead and needed to build up enough juice to last until after it booted up.
FreemanB said:
I had that happen once as well. I just let it sit on the charger for about 15-20 minutes, and it booted up with no problems after that. In my case, it looked like the battery was just completely dead and needed to build up enough juice to last until after it booted up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, ditto.
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA App
Questions like this do not belong in the development section.
Please post in the Q&A section.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1103
Wrong section brother.
^_^_^
Ditto, try pulling battery out for 5-10 seconds, put the charger. It will not blink, then it will flash orange blinks let it sit for some 15. Minutes. Remember that TB takes alot of juice to reboot sometimes 5%.
STAY AWAY FROM ALL GINGERBREAD ROMS
My phone got stuck on the white htc screen this morning all of a sudden without any perceivable reason at all. Luckily I was able to restore to a backup.. BUT... It wouldn't install any new roms on my phone anymore for some reason.. they all get stuck on the white htc screen.
My advice.. GB is f&&&ked somewhere deep down.. and which is probably why it isn't officially released yet. Keep off of it if you don't wanna brick your phones.
kriskmk said:
STAY AWAY FROM ALL GINGERBREAD ROMS
My phone got stuck on the white htc screen this morning all of a sudden without any perceivable reason at all. Luckily I was able to restore to a backup.. BUT... It wouldn't install any new roms on my phone anymore for some reason.. they all get stuck on the white htc screen.
My advice.. GB is f&&&ked somewhere deep down.. and which is probably why it isn't officially released yet. Keep off of it if you don't wanna brick your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a sign of a hardware failure I had a bad touch screen and once it went out it wouldn't boot past the splash, I'm sure it's similar with other hardware failures so it's a bad device not the gingerbread roms
Atleast that's my opinion
>--The Game--<
kriskmk said:
STAY AWAY FROM ALL GINGERBREAD ROMS
My phone got stuck on the white htc screen this morning all of a sudden without any perceivable reason at all. Luckily I was able to restore to a backup.. BUT... It wouldn't install any new roms on my phone anymore for some reason.. they all get stuck on the white htc screen.
My advice.. GB is f&&&ked somewhere deep down.. and which is probably why it isn't officially released yet. Keep off of it if you don't wanna brick your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like you didn't wipe data.
jcase said:
Sounds like you didn't wipe data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if he flashed Gingeritis, wouldn't the script have done in for him in cwr?
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA Premium App
I had this happen to just a few ago.
Picked up the phone and screen was off,Normal, I hit power and nothing.
Pulled battery, went bootloaded mode recovery and wiped and loaded bamf.
I have all the roms on my SD now.
Serious now, that was the second time I loaded th3ory.
The first time, I went to uninstall something and when I hit uninstall the button started flickering wild.
I kept mashing uninstall,I got it to switch to the next screen where you hit ok.
Then got a pop up over and over, phone force close sorry.
Pulled battery and went recover and loaded bamf.
So th3ory came out with v4 I thought ok why not.
Then I had the dead phone problem like you are talking about.
I don't want to bash any dev or Rom but I'm not sure about th3ory Rom guys.
I posted because this just happend to me and many post are talking about battery.
I don't think its a battery problem guys
jcase said:
Sounds like you didn't wipe data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course I did...and not just once.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
superchilpil said:
That's a sign of a hardware failure I had a bad touch screen and once it went out it wouldn't boot past the splash, I'm sure it's similar with other hardware failures so it's a bad device not the gingerbread roms
Atleast that's my opinion
>--The Game--<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it was a hardware failure it wouldn't have worked with my froyo backup.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
tanium said:
I had this happen to just a few ago.
Picked up the phone and screen was off,Normal, I hit power and nothing.
Pulled battery, went bootloaded mode recovery and wiped and loaded bamf.
I have all the roms on my SD now.
Serious now, that was the second time I loaded th3ory.
The first time, I went to uninstall something and when I hit uninstall the button started flickering wild.
I kept mashing uninstall,I got it to switch to the next screen where you hit ok.
Then got a pop up over and over, phone force close sorry.
Pulled battery and went recover and loaded bamf.
So th3ory came out with v4 I thought ok why not.
Then I had the dead phone problem like you are talking about.
I don't want to bash any dev or Rom but I'm not sure about th3ory Rom guys.
I posted because this just happend to me and many post are talking about battery.
I don't think its a battery problem guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For one all GB ROM have the data load issue when trying to uninstall. Second, if it was a issue, more people would have reported it.
Titanium Backup, a App you use in every ROM, CPU setting to low, not wipe to save some time, a multitude of things could cause you a issue.
In my defense, if it were my ROM, it would be heard.
Sent from my ADR6400L using XDA App
kriskmk said:
STAY AWAY FROM ALL GINGERBREAD ROMS
My phone got stuck on the white htc screen this morning all of a sudden without any perceivable reason at all. Luckily I was able to restore to a backup.. BUT... It wouldn't install any new roms on my phone anymore for some reason.. they all get stuck on the white htc screen.
My advice.. GB is f&&&ked somewhere deep down.. and which is probably why it isn't officially released yet. Keep off of it if you don't wanna brick your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude. Stop bashing the GB dev Rom. You run the risk of bricking with any Rom. Plenty of people are using GB and the 2.5 radio with no problems, myself included. If it docent work right on your phone then put something else on it. Not every phone is going to react the exact same way to a flash. Your always going to have those few exceptions, even with OTA's.
Sent from my Rooted Remixed BAMF URBaN Thunderbolt.
kriskmk said:
STAY AWAY FROM ALL GINGERBREAD ROMS
My phone got stuck on the white htc screen this morning all of a sudden without any perceivable reason at all. Luckily I was able to restore to a backup.. BUT... It wouldn't install any new roms on my phone anymore for some reason.. they all get stuck on the white htc screen.
My advice.. GB is f&&&ked somewhere deep down.. and which is probably why it isn't officially released yet. Keep off of it if you don't wanna brick your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not good advice at all.
Check your charging cable! I just had a bad cable the other day and my phone was doing the same exact thing... light bliking on and off. I found if I plugged it in and then lightly pulled it half way out the orange light stayed solid, but it took some work.
Before you start freaking out, just try another cable... hopefully its not the connectors inside your phone.
RootandBoot said:
Dude. Stop bashing the GB dev Rom. You run the risk of bricking with any Rom. Plenty of people are using GB and the 2.5 radio with no problems, myself included. If it docent work right on your phone then put something else on it. Not every phone is going to react the exact same way to a flash. Your always going to have those few exceptions, even with OTA's.
Sent from my Rooted Remixed BAMF URBaN Thunderbolt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no need to get your panties in a bunch.. My advice is only worth whatever it is.. (which may be nothing too).. and I am not thrusting it on anyone to follow it.
Where the hell do you figure I am bashing devs??? The more time one spends on xda the more you come across these noob "police figures" who go around poking into unrelated stuff getting all worked up for nothing.. Like I said.. it is probably something to do with how the alpha gingerbread works at the core level which is causing all these problems.. it has nothing to do with devs.. and look around you.. plenty of people are reporting the same. I didn't see anyone complaining when devs reported the same with the earlier GB and asked people to stay away from it. Were they doing it so that they can bash other devs who had their GB roms out before they did? I don't think so. So quit shooting from your hips and move along.
If the led is blinking it means the phone is totally dead. If you let it sit the light will eventually become solid and be fine
Sent from my ThunderBolt using XDA Premium App
Hi,
I got the E3D this weekend. It upgraded to lastest OTA. It gets random reboot and FCs once in a while. The most frustrating is lockups. Everything goes black, if i connect to charger their is no LED indication and i have to take out battery to reboot it. I have seen it happening when battery is around 40-30%.
Is it common or i have a faulty piece?
Thanks.
PS:-Sorry if it a repost.
donniezazen said:
Hi,
I got the E3D this weekend. It upgraded to lastest OTA. It gets random reboot and FCs once in a while. The most frustrating is lockups. Everything goes black, if i connect to charger their is no LED indication and i have to take out battery to reboot it. I have seen it happening when battery is around 40-30%.
Is it common or i have a faulty piece?
Thanks.
PS:-Sorry if it a repost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMHO i would say faulty piece.. i run my stuff hard and have had no issues with this phone like that.. i know my wife's orig evo and my Hero both had those issues stock (memory leak in sense i believe), but with this 3d i have pushed it pretty good and have had no issues with it.. and i too have the latest OTA..
EDIT: that is assuming you dont have anythign crazy downloaded that would be killing your phone..
Same here. Latest OTA, running hard and no problems.
brnail said:
Same here. Latest OTA, running hard and no problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see if they fix it within 4 weeks.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
pstevep said:
IMHO i would say faulty piece.. i run my stuff hard and have had no issues with this phone like that.. i know my wife's orig evo and my Hero both had those issues stock (memory leak in sense i believe), but with this 3d i have pushed it pretty good and have had no issues with it.. and i too have the latest OTA..
EDIT: that is assuming you dont have anythign crazy downloaded that would be killing your phone..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never had any issues with my evo. Let other people get back. Like other gentleman had same problem. One of my other friend had reboot issues with his Thunderbolt. It came like that, and I have only market application installed at this moment except swiftx keyboard. I had a sense fc so far.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
I'd exchange it.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
bryangene said:
I'd exchange it.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will probably I have had 3-4 reboots today.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
I had similar problems before and after otas. I did a factory reset and it's worked great since.
i got mine last wednessday and not a single force close lock up or random reboot. I'm truly amazed with this device. its the first android phone that i've had that just works.
I've had a random reboot or two, have had sense crash a couple times, and have had it lock up on me. I've factory reset twice. I intend on exchanging it after another week or two.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
bobdude5 said:
i got mine last wednessday and not a single force close lock up or random reboot. I'm truly amazed with this device. its the first android phone that i've had that just works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 1o characters
I have two evo 3d phones, and both of them lock up alot. mostly camera app or gallery. My wife hates hers, locks up too much.
I did factory reset. I am upgrading now. let's see how it goes!
Let us know! I've had a few random reboots today when it was just sitting on my table... I also had it turn off on me and I couldn't turn it back on until I did a battery pull. I think I may try a hard reset (the ##786# way) to see if it'll fix it.
xPhantom said:
Let us know! I've had a few random reboots today when it was just sitting on my table... I also had it turn off on me and I couldn't turn it back on until I did a battery pull. I think I may try a hard reset (the ##786# way) to see if it'll fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had a reboot or lockup so far. Of course I have not been playing with it as crazily as I did past 2 days. It might be some bad app.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Which way of resetting did you use? Did you use "Factory data reset" in SD & phone storage settings or did you do a different hard reset? Also, does your phone seem to suffer from not sleeping (up time and awake time are always the same)?
xPhantom said:
Which way of resetting did you use? Did you use "Factory data reset" in SD & phone storage settings or did you do a different hard reset? Also, does your phone seem to suffer from not sleeping (up time and awake time are always the same)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I went to Android recovery to reset a couple of times along with pulling out battery. Lol.. To get into android recovery press volume down and power button. It seems this phone goes into hibernation when you press shut off. So, I pressed reboot and volume down early in start.
No my phone seems to sleep properly.
I do have heating problems but other people and Thunderbolt user have it too. So, I guess it's OK.
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA Premium App
Yeah definitely take it back. Like someone else has said, have 2 evo 3ds since last week and did not notice one reboot
Sent from my PG86100 using XDA App
i've had 2 or 3 random reboots. maybe 1 forceclose for sense.
The sleeping issue happens if you didn't take the otas
Bussin Caps from my 3D shooter
TL;DR check the last post
Has anyone else been experiencing random reboots lately? Mine seems to be intermittent, i used my phone for three hours straight two days ago and everything was fine. The damn thing just rebooted on me three times in the span of about an hour, two were within ten minutes of each other. I'm running cleanROM v1.4 with no cpu control apps, and I haven't changed anything in about 1.5-2 weeks.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Just did it again. I'm about to smash this damn thing against the wall!!
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
I'm running CleanRom 4.5 and have only experienced 1 random reboot. My girlfriend on the other hand is running stock gingerbread and experienced 5 random reboots yesterday. I asked her what she was doing at the time, and she was of no assistance. Definately something to keep an eye on!
I got pissed and wiped everything, then reinstalled CleanROM DE with only the apps I use frequently and everything has been fine so far, haven't had one yet. Maybe it was a buggy app or something else because during this time my extended battery said it was at 80% then after one of the reboots it said 17% and I was like wtf? After the clean install it said 66%!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
I lied, it just did it again!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
brando56894 said:
I lied, it just did it again!
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you s-off ? if not make sure you are flashing the boot.img after installing the ROM. Or if you are on GB firmware your installing the firmware patch if installing an ics ROM.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using XDA
Yea I have, it's nothing that simple sadly. At first I thought it was a buggy app so I wiped /data and only installed a few apps I use constantly, but it still happened. So I did a fresh install of the current rom I was on and didn't install any apps or restore any data, but it still did it. I just flashed another rom without restoring anything to see if it still happened and it did. I had an idea that it may be the latest radio image that caused it so I flashed to the one before the latest leak, but it still does it.
I'm currently in the process of flashing the original GB RUU to see if it still does it. If it does then I know it's definitely a hardware problem. If you couldn't already tell yes I am S-Off
So the RUU didn't fix it but it did lessen the reboots. Now when I wake the phone up while running Gingerbread the data connection will take a minute or two to connect and will drop out sometimes while the screen is on.
It rebooted on me last night. Also during the night it did a factory reset (or I did it in my sleep!) because when I woke up the phone was at the "choose your language" screen and after I left that all my downloaded apps were gone.
I also just got the OTA adr6425lvw_2.01.605.11-1.02.605.6 but it won't stick.
WTF is going on here? Do you guys think I need to do an insurance claim?
casper99801 said:
I'm running CleanRom 4.5 and have only experienced 1 random reboot. My girlfriend on the other hand is running stock gingerbread and experienced 5 random reboots yesterday. I asked her what she was doing at the time, and she was of no assistance. Definately something to keep an eye on!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My GF's stock Rezound reboots pretty frequently too... Mine never does, even stock it didn't. After the last fiasco with VZW and sending phones back and forth she's not going to want to swap it out again :-/
brando56894 said:
So the RUU didn't fix it but it did lessen the reboots. Now when I wake the phone up while running Gingerbread the data connection will take a minute or two to connect and will drop out sometimes while the screen is on.
It rebooted on me last night. Also during the night it did a factory reset (or I did it in my sleep!) because when I woke up the phone was at the "choose your language" screen and after I left that all my downloaded apps were gone.
I also just got the OTA adr6425lvw_2.01.605.11-1.02.605.6 but it won't stick.
WTF is going on here? Do you guys think I need to do an insurance claim?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While your on the stock unrooted untouched ruu do a factory reset from hboot. Then boot up reboot to recovery and flash your Rom.even though I'm soff I still reflash my kernel in hboot after wiping boot.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using xda premium
I'm giving it a try now and I'll see what happens, thanks.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Edit: In the past 8 hours I haven't had any random reboots or radio problems (yet), but the battery stats still seem to be wacky (another symptom I forgot to mention). I had the phone off because the battery was dead and I was charging it at my cousin's house. When I left I turned the phone on and in a span of about ten minutes it first reported a reading of 40%, I opened an app for a few minutes and when I looked at it again it was down to 20%, a minute later it was down to 9%. I decided to shut it off for a few minutes, took the battery out and put it back in, then after I booted up it showed 55%! I also had my extended battery with me at the time which I thought was full but when I put it in, my Rezound just went to the white HTC screen and after a battery pull it wouldn't turn back on so I figured it was dead. I just put it back in now and tried to charge it, it's actually at 94%!
I'm currently on GB Firmware, running CleanROM DE v1.4. Before yesterday (?) I have been on ICS Firmware since the initial leak of ICS IIRC.
It just started this crap again about 4 days ago, I was getting one per day on ICS. I ran the original GB RUU four times (twice, tested it out for a few minutes and noticed that data kept dropping out, then ran it again twice) and it still does it.
Before I ran the RUU I was on ConROM when it started so I flashed Nils latest work, when it started to happen again I flashed the kernel in TWRP, when that didn't work I flashed it directly via HBOOT (extracted the PH98IMG from the zip), which still didn't fix it.
I'm beginning to think that I did damage the radios during the S-Off process since I was one of the people that had been trying to run the exploit since v0.01, also during the later tries I realized that I was shorting out the wrong pins at one point After I switched to the correct pins and used v0.02 or v0.03 it works and I had S-Off.
I'm about to go back to S-On and see if it still happens.....
Just came back from Verizon and they're going to replace it for free since it's covered under the MFG warranty since the phone is only 8 months old.
I love how clueless their employees are: I told a guy that my phone was rebooting constantly and that that it keeps losing its connection to 4G (then demonstrated that it had lost it's connection even though mobile data was turned on and when I cycled it it would re-connect), he was about to mention a factory reset but I said I had done about 20 factory resets (didn't mention RUUs or anything) before he even got the words out, so he passed me off to their "tech guy".
Here's the real kicker...
I told him that the data radio keeps shutting off and it reboots constantly. His response was "the what?!" I told him 4G/the internet connection and that I've done numerous factory resets and he then said "we'll ship you a new one."
This is about the 5th time and 3rd different store where Verizon's employees have no idea what the hell I'm talking about. Half the time it isn't even tech related, I've schooled them on their own products and promotions multiple times (namely the 2 month return policy before christmas and the half-off extended battery deal [2 out of 3 employees in the same store didn't know that one])! It's pretty damn sad when a customer who reads Android blogs knows more about the promotions than an official Verizon employee....
brando56894 said:
Just did it again. I'm about to smash this damn thing against the wall!!
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Afaik all android phones do this. Buy an iPhone
Thanks for the helpful response! Ass... I had the original Droid for a year and the incredible for about six months, neither of which did this once. I've also had the Rezound since launch day, I could could the number of times it did this before a month ago on one hand!
Unless you have something useful to contribute STFU.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
brando56894 said:
Thanks for the helpful response! Ass... I had the original Droid for a year and the incredible for about six months, neither of which did this once. I've also had the Rezound since launch day, I could could the number of times it did this before a month ago on one hand!
Unless you have something useful to contribute STFU.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If a phone randomly reboots in your pocket, or while you're sleeping... Would you know? I had 7 origional droids, 5 bionics, a rezound, a gnex, and a galaxy tab. I have yet to own an android device that doesn't randomly reboot. I have had devices up tor 11 days without it happening, but inevitability, it happened. I think its related to ram. I never really looked into, but its just a hunch. From what I see on my rezound it is just the shell rebooting and not the device. You are just too much of a fanboy to see that due to many factors, especially fragmentation, that android is super clunky. It is also generally bugged. I am typing this on my bugged sense keyboard, from my bugged WebKit browser. What made android good was open source. It isn't like that anymore.
Hi!
I updated my prime to JB a couple days ago and succfesfully restored root, yesterday I played around with it and changed the governor and the clock speed to 1.4 Ghz using No-frills, Now it is constantly rebootning after about 10-15 seconds within startup. In the past No-frills have been excellent detecting unclean shutdowns, however not this time...
Is it possible to fix this?
have you tried reformatting the prime? I know it's the last thing you'd want to do but it might be the only option.
luciddreamin92 said:
have you tried reformatting the prime? I know it's the last thing you'd want to do but it might be the only option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that will solve the problem. But how do I do it if it's rebooting after 15 sec?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
You can wipe your prime by powering off, and holding volume down while powering back up. Then you select the wipe option and you are off! No OS loading required.
You will lose root in some fashion, though. May be possible to get it back, as I had to wipe and successfully restored.
thenrz said:
You can wipe your prime by powering off, and holding volume down while powering back up. Then you select the wipe option and you are off! No OS loading required.
You will lose root in some fashion, though. May be possible to get it back, as I had to wipe and successfully restored.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will try it tonight thanks
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Same thing here, was working fine for a few days now it's rebooting every 15 sec or so.. I did have to manually install JB after the update failed. Wonder if that has anything to do with it??
Every time it reboots it says android is updating. Odd
I have this problem... Power+ volume down, tham wipe data!! With wipe i dont lose root!
Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using xda app-developers app
Same here
I'm having the same problem here, although the update seemed to go fine for me and it has been working great for the last few days. I have not unlocked either, pretty much stock TP (just a lurker here on XDA). Before I wipe, is there any way to recover some of the data I have on it? It doesn't stay booted up long enough to get anything off of it. I emailed Asus tech support, will see what kind of answer I get from them. Thanks
j
My power button stopped working today. I set it to wake in volume rocker. I can't restart my phone or boot into recovery anymore. My phone is out of warranty, so I can't send it in. Any idea for a fix?
Edit: it also seems that if I leave it in standby for too long I can't wake it with the volume rocker. This all just happened completely randomly today too...
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
try reading the other threads about power button issues before starting your own thread, about the same exact issue?
The only thread I found never resolved, so I thought I'd try my own thread.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
There is no "resolving" the issue. Its H/W. Your ****s broke.
Fix it, have someone fix it, or use S/W apps as a workaround.
All listed in other threads.
Like the most recent.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1941996
what do you expect to get different than what the others got?
I don't know man, just checking. Some people know a lot more about these things then I do, thought maybe it might be software out something. Thanks for the help.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
i had a faulty power button recently and it would keep restarting my phone basically anytime i touched it. i flashed 3 different roms on it to make sure it was a hardware problem and searching around i found that the phone is basically broken... luckily i was still within my the year for warranty so ive since replaced. im not sure if your power button just has stopped working all together or youre having other issues with it but from my experience you should start looking for a new phone
Damn, that sucks sorry man.. that's happened to me 3 months ago, luckily I still had the warranty...u might have to fork out the cash a buy a new phone... when is your next upgrade?
Next upgrade is in May. Oddly enough, when I took the back off to see if anything was visibly wrong, I tested it by pushing the actual switch (not the outside button cover) it worked. Then after putting it all back together everything works as normal. Hopefully it stays that way.
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