Related
So, I've been spending the better part of an hour scouring over the Anandtech teardown gallery of the prime trying to get a decent understanding of the GPS/WiFi antennas and the underlying design flaws which contribute to these features messing up; namely the giant metal shield of a cover and the placement of the antennas. They're not exactly in a bad place, but I guess Asus assumed that if you were using WiFi/GPS with your tablet then you would always do so with the screen facing the AP/satellites. In reality, mine at least, it's the back of the device generally pointing to these things. Maybe I place my network hubs in strange places and enjoy astronomy apps too much?
Now on to the actual question, especially to any of you who have gotten the device and been brave enough to peek inside it yourself; would creating my own plastic windows/metal grates within the aluminum backing actually help anything? Do these antennas broadcast a 360 degree signal or are they directional? The motherboard itself would allow decent signal to get to the transmitter wouldn't it, so long as the case does?
My order isn't set to ship for another month, but I think I'll be getting this tablet regardless of the known issues, though the audio/video problems with the miniHDMI port make me a bit nervous. This thing will still be a power-house even as better spec'd tablets come out, just like my single-core Desire Z is still pretty relevant and decent. Just not top-of-the-line, and it wasn't for any real amount of time, but that's just how these things go.
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
tshoulihane said:
Ideally, the antenna would couple to the whole backplate, making a big slot antenna (but then it starts to risk being too directional). It's just as probably that the issue is noise or feeble pogo-pin connectors.
If you do make a cut-out, it needs to be about 1 wavelength larger than the outline of the antenna (and you risk de-tuning the antenna if it was designed to operate in close proximity to a groundplane)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Coupling to the backplate, though increasing power decreases accuracy doesn't it?
I hadn't thought of the pogo-pins as a possible culprit, that's certainly possible.
Couldn't I make a couple windows and retro-fit either some plastic or plexi-glass into the design? Would that help keep from de-tuning, especially if kept to a small size with accurate positioning?
Thank you for the response, I know nothing of the finer details on GPS and other wireless signals.
*Edit: After re-reading and thinking, I actually understand what you're saying. Plastic or no, any cutout would need to be a very specific size larger than the antenna itself which would take more than I would be able to do I'm sure. Oh well, I know I'll still love this thing, so long as the miniHDMI works properly, I'll be happy. Phone's GPS works like a dream.
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
And now I apologize. I found it odd not finding topics on this, but now I've found them and have a bit more of an understanding on the matter. Namely that the cpu seems to have a strong possibility of creating interference for the chip. The casing apparently just worsens the issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How sure are we about this? I've read that Apple puts their WiFi antenna behind the black plastic logo on their WiFi-only models for exactly this reason. Not only that, but on the 3g models they simply have all the wireless modules placed on top of the device where they are covered with black plastic as well.
It seems to me that a stupid plastic apple cutout - a complex geometric shape - is not likely capable of being as "tuned" as a rectangular cutout. Yet, I think it's safe to say that the 3G and WiFi versions of the iPad have similar if not identical WiFi performance. That is to say, I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty. I think it's safe to hack away at.
Thoughts?
JazzMac251 said:
I don't think manufactures are using the aluminum back for anything other than looking pretty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe for some heat dispersion too?
I wish they would start selling the back plate only (like they do with ipods etc)
That way i'm sure someone could cutout a shape and try the antenna behind a plastic window etc, but youd always have the option to put the original back.
I wouldnt mind modding mine after the garantee has ran out.
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Docaroo said:
I think Asus might consider making an after-market backplate that they would fit to your Prime after they have fully tested the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
buxtahuda said:
I've been thinking that even if Asus didn't some third party will. And I'm willing to get to cutting the day it arrives if I can determine it'll help. However, I don't want just an open grate for dust and junk to get into. Maybe just a thin fabric filter, or should I close it up with some plastic/plexiglass and epoxy?
Sent from my HTC Vision using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
JazzMac251 said:
I don't see why plastic wouldn't work. It's what the iPad has and it seems to work out in that case.
You should consider cross-posting this in the "General" forum. It is a "question", but the General forum gets a LOT more eyeballs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Yakandu said:
i agree, this post should be on general... this would be a great solution, a homemade plastic ipad-like hole... we need it, and if third party doesnt do this, we will have to do it...
well, but anyone tested the device without the case to see the real power of the wifi-gps-bt ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be, but it's still a good two-four weeks before I have mine. All mentions of it I've seen in general never get answered, I haven't seen anyone comment on whether or not they've tried without the backing. Probably because most aren't willing to try and heat up the glue to do so or damage the thing in the process...
Some expertise required
Does the aluminium back plate attenuate both wifi and gps signals? From what I have read it seems to be confirmed that this is the situation, although other factors such as internal interference have NOT been discounted, nor has the connection method (gold pogo pin) between motherboard and the antennae (blackened out pcb strip). I have noted on the TF101 Transformer teardown, a very similar placement of both WIFI and GPS antennae to that on the TF201 Transformer Prime - near the top edge and adjacent each other. Looking at similarities between models, an obvious and perhaps too simple explination would be the aluminium back plate. There does seem to be some interest in experimenting with making some holes (similar to the speaker grill), on the back plate in front of the antennae in the hope that it MAY improve reception. I have read numerous posts and was hoping that someone may have tried this. I don't want to hear about the merits of having or not having a GPS and how it matters to them personaly etc - lets focus people, but whether someone has had the ability and knowledge to try it. I am unsure given the wavelength of both GPS and WIFI (1.2 / 1.5 Ghz) whether mutliple small holes would do it. I feel that a transparent plastic window may be required. I do not believe the back plate is used a coupled ground plate etc. and it is used purely as the chasis. Come on - there has to be some smart engineering graduates/professionals who are willing to give this a go...it would have been nice if they were paid by ASUS but that seems unlikely. Point to note - that the GPS and WIFI antennas (there are two for the WIFI on the TF201) would be obtaining some reception through the front gorilla glass and plastic (on which the antennae are mounted). My question is - what and IF modifications are necessary to the back plate to obtain better reception. Any ideas?
I have not seen a single test where anyone proved it was the back plate. Anyone have a link to a test that shows the prime navigating successfully without the back plate?
If it's being proven by numerous owners and Asus's own claims that the aluminum backing is interfering with the signals of wifi and gps, what realistically should be a proper response to the customers?
We bought the devices and can't return them to the stores because of return time running out and firmware updates are not fixing the issue. Being that they are aware the aluminum is the problem how feasible would it be for them to recall them and change the back out for a different material? We still enjoy this device greatly and I can deal with waiting to have my back swapped out knowing when I get it back there won't be an issue with it.
Sure it's going to be expensive but so are class action suits by pissed off customers. Example is Apple settling their class action suit over the death grip problem. Why not nip it now instead of shipping more units out that will require RMA numbers and ruin the reputation of the company? I also understand the company bottom line is the defining factor but is it really worth the frustration of employee's and customers who are going to be left sour feeling with Asus products?
This is bringing back bad memories of when I owned an Asus Z71v laptop. Beautiful machine but getting them to replace my battery after they got a bad batch of cells from the oem was a pain until enough people complained.
ASUS has removed GPS from product specifications. For unsatisfied customers outside the return window, they have started to offer refunds. See my post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1509819
call me crazy but i love the aluminum back looks amazing and feels very high quality. As long as my wifi is as good as it is atm i wouldnt want it any other way^^ I mean who cares about AGPS on a wifi only device anyway? Its nice that they put it in the prime, but you cant except good performance from it without network.
Gary keys already said itss not the aluminum backing thatss causing the issue
It's Not The Aluminum Back Cover
Most of us do not have issues with WiFi, Bluetooth, or GPS and we have the same aluminum cover as those with issues. I've seen my GPS go from great to nil as I "upgraded" from .11 to .14. To solve it I rooted it, went back to .11 and now I get 11-12 satellites indoors.
AMoosa said:
Gary keys already said itss not the aluminum backing thatss causing the issue
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it was just the opposite. I thought I read in an interveiw by Engadet with Gary, and he said the aluminum back plate was the cause...
****ing_lukin said:
ASUS has removed GPS from product specifications. For unsatisfied customers outside the return window, they have started to offer refunds. See my post: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1509819
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, this. Since ASUS is now offering refunds, nobody has anything to complain about. If your Prime doesn't work for you, return it. Nothing could be simpler.
I have aluminium backing and it's works and looks great. No solution needed.
Mcoupe said:
I thought it was just the opposite. I thought I read in an interveiw by Engadet with Gary, and he said the aluminum back plate was the cause...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got the impression it was both. The aluminum backplate does cause signal attenuation, and is without a doubt a factor with the GPS and WiFi problems the TP experiences, regardless of whether or not Gary and Asus wants to admit it.
However, I get the impression the backplate isn't the whole story for a few reasons. First, we've seen a great deal of variability in signal strength and performance. Considering everybody (presumably) has the exact same backplate, the wide range of signal performance has to be affected by other factors as well.
Additionally, Asus may have made some mistakes, but they aren't stupid. They know full well that aluminum blocks signal strength, and I very much doubt they engineered, tested, built and shipped a flagship product without ever taking the time to see if the back might be prohibitively blocking signals.
Finally, we've seen that software can and does affect everyone differently.
My personal theory is that we are seeing two sets of hardware- an initial rollout, and a slightly tweaked second batch. The variation between the two would explain why some people without problems started seeing problems with the .13 and .14 patches, and vice versa.
Sent back their TFP?
Considering sending back their TFP?
Happy/ unhappy with it?
Waiting for an official statement from Asus before you make up your mind?
Like my prime but feeling a little let down and unsure of where to go from here. Wondering what other UK TFP owners have done.
I don't plan on sending my prime back, though I did consider it when I found out the GPS was non functional. It still irks me a little bit even though I don't think I'd ever care to actually use it - it's not nice to think my device isn't up to par. However side from that I'm extremely pleased with it and overall I'm just too lazy to go through the hassle
An Honest Answer
I am likely going to either get an RMA or try to return under the statement of full refund from asus ( http://asus.co.uk/blog/news/eee-pad-transformer-prime-update/1057/) the problems i am getting are intermittent and starting to annoy me, just to name a few;
Dust under screen,
Light bleed,
Dead pixels,
DOA GPS,
Wobbly hinge on dock,
BT+WiFi = Unusable WiFi
I could go on...
unfortunately i purchased mine from Carphone warehouse in january and as such will find it more difficult getting a refund from them but i will try
Other than the above i was thoroughly enjoying my prime ... whilst wearing rose tinted glasses.
I may purchase the TF700T at a later date when it is released or just stay without a tablet forevermore it depends if asus tightens up their QUALITY CONTROL!!
Regards
Jack
Got this response back from Asus Support after mentioning my GPS doesn't work. Truly disappointed. Any advice on how to get them to look at it?
Regarding the GPS Asus has released an official statement.
"The ASUS Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Kind regards,
Asus UK Support Team"
conner said:
Sent back their TFP?
Considering sending back their TFP?
Happy/ unhappy with it?
Waiting for an official statement from Asus before you make up your mind?
Like my prime but feeling a little let down and unsure of where to go from here. Wondering what other UK TFP owners have done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm keeping mine. It's great. If only Asus had never put a GPS sensor in it then everyone would be happy.
Since it's the aluminum back that's supposedly blocking the signal, one could theoretically cutout or punch some small holes over the wireless device akin to the speaker port. Then since the back is so easily stretchable, get a protective skin and put it over top.
Thoughts?
Erusman removed the back of his Prime and then installed antennae that go through the back in order to improve WiFi and GPS performance. However most people haven't found any value with the idea of cutting up the back of their Prime since there is no guarantee that WiFi will improve by a significant amount, however it is 100% guaranteed that cutting a hole in the back of the Prime will void your warranty.
There are plenty of Prime's out there that have pretty good WiFi performance. My Prime's WiFi is nearly as good as my Windows laptop and more than good enough for everything I would ever need to do on my tablet.
If your WiFi isn't working well enough to meet your needs, return or exchange your Prime for one that is working better.
I've had 2 prime side to side and one gets better speed than the other connected to the same router and test ran separately. So IMO there's either faulty hardware or bad connection. Have you tried getting an exchange?
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
At last some real info in a sea of misinformation.
The only thing which will fix this and the gps issue is a good window with a non-conductive cover, or maybe a plug-in or screw-in antenna.
I am sure, though, that some of the preproduction models had some hardware issues relating to antennas, as well as the oft quoted "metal back" issue.
I, too am finding the WiFi performance acceptable, and the sheer flexibility and neatness of the rest of the UK package (tab +dock) has made me a firm fan of the ATP.
Shame about the GPS, though, as there are many google and Android apps which work with phones and GPS which could translate productively to the Prime.
FG (confirmed fan)
Ok thanks for the insight everyone. I now believe my original concept wouldn't work.
I'm curious if there's has been any confirmation of an improved signal by simply removing the back. Someone had said it could be as much a hardware issue as it is the back design.
My wifi is acceptable, it's about the same as it is on my Nexus One which I'd feel bad complaining about. Though it's not as good as my Macbook.
I was just trying to brainstorm some possible solutions. Maybe I'll look into the antennea.
Felisek said:
Cutting little holes will not help. A metal mesh or grid reflects radio waves as effectively as solid metal plate - this is even used in some radio telescopes. In order for the radio waves to come through you would have to cut a hole with size comparable to the length of the EM wave. WiFi wavelength is about 12 cm...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the plastic apple on the back of the ipad where the wifi is mounted is a gimmick? I find that a little hard to believe.
no, the apple cut out is big enough to let some RF through.
compact antennas and some serious amplification will do the rest. Look at the size of some of the antenna modules in other threads to see how small they are.
In fact look at how small the ipad antenna which is stuck behind the apple logo is.
the poster was right that a few small holes in a grounded plate would not let through enough juice to work.
That would amount to a Farady cage, which is used to screen RF signals, not let them through.
FG
I've had my Transformer Prime for a few months now and had slight workarounds for it, but it's gotten to a point where I can't ignore it anymore, as it seems to be getting worse.
Basically, in certain apps, and also occasionally on the home screen and app drawer screen, the top 1/3 of the screen doesn't respond to touch at all. This can be a huge problem since a lot of buttons are located up there, and the only way I'm able to get to them is if I use the keyboard.
I have done a few factory resets and a cold boot, and the problem still comes up. I've also noticed some light bleeding in the same area, so I don't know if that adds anything.
I really don't want to RMA this, as I've read about horror stories of people's primes being damaged or taking forever to be fixed, so is there any alternate way of fixing it? Or is it best to take the plunge and RMA it.
Thanks in advance!
RMA.
RMA I think is your only option. Or you can try to take it back to the retailer and see if they will replace it. I've learned over the years that Best Buy accidental damage coverage is worth it... Brick your device... unbrick it by accidentally dropping it out the car window. Take it to Best Buy and they give you a new one. lol
If you want to open your tablet yourself and not risk an RMA chances are the cable that connects the digitizer to the rest of the tablet is loose... its not a very secure connection.
If you take like a plastic toothpick or something of the like under the two slots beside the dock connecter you can slide them sideways.
Then take a guitar pick or plastic pry tool and use it to seperate the screen from the back. There are lots of videos on youtube how to do this safely.
Once you have the prime in two parts, butterfly it open and you will notice two ribbon cables that attach the screen to the back of the prime. One of these is for the display, one is for the digitizer. Make sure both are properly attached. Be careful with them as they are delicate and do not take bending well, however you have to firmly press them into their slots.
Check out the "opened my prime" thread for pictures and more info how to open your prime. If you dont have physical damage im pretty sure this is the cause as i had the same problem after opening my prime, however fixed it by making sure the cables were connected properly.